MC Prussian Posted 12 April 2006 Author Posted 12 April 2006 Overall pretty disturbing how the things are going in some parts of the world.
Phube Posted 12 April 2006 Posted 12 April 2006 been reading this post now for a while (and no I can't be a**ed to download the video) But if you go to the BBc website today you'll see that at the trial of Zacharias Mousakawi(?) a recording of the plane(?) hitting the pentagon was played. Now unless this is also a fake along with the missing passengers this conspiracy has just too many loose ends to tie it all together, it'd be impossible to pull off!! Also it happened in the first 6 months of Bush's presidency which is pretty fast work to pull it off, unless Clinton was the one who first came up with the plan!! Finally the reason Al'Queda were instanly though of as culprits was because they tried to blow up the trade towers in the 90's so they would obviously be Prime suspects!! And as Bin Laden is the 'leader' the it is he who would be the one the press would go after!!! *sits back and gets ready to be picked apart*
Gamesmaster Posted 19 May 2006 Posted 19 May 2006 Everybody's gotta learn sometime "smoking guns" Boeing 757 or A3 Sky Warrior? If not a boeing 757, is the US government lieing to us? if so, are they partly to blame about the complete package of 9/11?
MC Prussian Posted 19 May 2006 Author Posted 19 May 2006 Everybody's gotta learn sometime "smoking guns" Boeing 757 or A3 Sky Warrior? If not a boeing 757, is the US government lieing to us? if so, are they partly to blame about the complete package of 9/11? Still astounding stuff, but it only reconfirms what I've been saying here for months.
Gamesmaster Posted 22 May 2006 Posted 22 May 2006 SwissFox, what did you think of the "everybody's gotta learn" video? what do you think hit the pentagon? certainly a plane, not the rocket that was suggested. if you look at the direction in which it hit the pentagon, it would've come from over the motorway, how did it get so low, so soon, why didnt it crash at a bigger angle do you think?
Daggers Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 Again, people's minds are biased since the attacks. There is no conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy. Of course, it was on "Straight-to-DVD" so it HAS to be true...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. In which case fairies really exist, orcs live in Middle England and there's a whole world of shit about to be unleashed when I look inside my wardrobe. We never visited the moon, the bermuda triangle exists, Roswell is the center of the known alien universe and some quack can cure cancer by placing some gemstones on your nipples. Please, when you open your eyes ~ try to see past the niche marketeers pandering to the paranoid, deluded and mentally ill. Try and pay some damn respect to those of us who lost relatives and friends in disaster. There was no cover up, there was no missile attack. There was simply a tragedy.
Lemon Harpic Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 Try and pay some damn respect to those of us who lost relatives and friends in disaster. I don't go in for any of the conspiracy stuff myself. But I don't see how it is disrespectful to the relatives and friends of the dead to propose alternate theories about 9/11. However, to use the deceased to try to shut down free speech and debate, that is just sick. If you disagree with the theorists, try and debate them using facts, reason and logic rather than emotional blackmail.
Daggers Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 But I don't see how it is disrespectful to the relatives and friends of the dead to propose alternate theories about 9/11. Obviously
MC Prussian Posted 28 May 2006 Author Posted 28 May 2006 Of course, it was on "Straight-to-DVD" so it HAS to be true...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. In which case fairies really exist, orcs live in Middle England and there's a whole world of shit about to be unleashed when I look inside my wardrobe. With footage obtained from various TV networks. And you ridicule yourself with the second part of your statement, which is simply stupid. If you want to argue here, try to be a little bit more focused on what you see, not what you believe before you've seen it. We never visited the moon, the bermuda triangle exists, Roswell is the center of the known alien universe and some quack can cure cancer by placing some gemstones on your nipples. Sure, when you say it... Please, when you open your eyes ~ try to see past the niche marketeers pandering to the paranoid, deluded and mentally ill. How lucky you are that you can hide behind an online messageboard. Doubt you would argue that way in real life. I had a quite distanced view on 9/11 before those videos came out, and I never said I believe what they say a 100%, but the new information sheds a very bad light on the American government, Military and Intelligence. Btw, you can get some of these DVDs for free, as well. So much for the capitalist aspect. Try and pay some damn respect to those of us who lost relatives and friends in disaster. Did you lose friends and relatives yourself? If not, than your sentence here is just pure hypocrisy. Tbere are simply people out there in the States trying to figure out what really happened, given the mysterious events that took place the months before and after 9/11. They're working FOR the people, not against them, FFS! There was no cover up, there was no missile attack. There was simply a tragedy. I totally agree with the tragedy part.
Daggers Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 How lucky you are that you can hide behind an online messageboard. Doubt you would argue that way in real life. Why? I say that the concept of a Bush-inspired missile attack and cover-up is abject bullshit and you accuse me of hiding behind a message board. What the hell is that...some kind of retard threat? I hide behind nothing and have the same to say to you on this issue whether on this forum or face to face. Tbere are simply people out there in the States trying to figure out what really happened There are cranks of all persuasion in the States, and in this country obviously, that feed on the gullability of others. I alluded to Roswell and the moon landings because that is the realm that you are dealing in. You seem to think that "Bush" has this amazing power to be able to produce events of this magnitude in order to mask alternative motives and then be able to cover them up. Horseshit. I was in Caracas when the CIA tried to organise the assassination of Hugo Chavez. This entailed the simple abduction. They couldn't even do that without screwing it up...and yet you seem to believe that "they" are able to make three planes disappear, blow up the twin towers and send a missile into the Pentagon. Without any documentary evidence, credible witnesses or people on the inside telling their side of the story. A politician in this country can not get away with a quick fumble in his office...how the hell do you think they could hope to pass off something so depraved as your proposal? ridicule yourself with the second part of your statement, which is simply stupid ...says the child who learnt all he knows from watching some television. Your entire arguement exists based on a DVD that you have watched...which, if I may venture, is a pretty dumb position to offer conjecture from. Talk to people that were actually there...do it yourself, not just watching tele. Yes, I lost someone dear to me and have I met many others who did too. I met many people in New York who witnessed the event. I have a valid opinion. These people have a valid opinion. You don't.
MC Prussian Posted 28 May 2006 Author Posted 28 May 2006 Daddy Discombobulated, why don't we go and see President George Walker Bush and ask him about what really happened that day? I'm sure he'll be pleased to give us all the answers we need. Does losing somebody dear in 9/11 entitle people to play down (valid) points that support a cover-up? And does that mean everybody else is just to shut up? I agree losing somebody dear is a terrible tragedy. But then again, what's with all the other people who lose friends and relatives due to starvation, hunger, infections, diseases or conflicts and wars all around the globe every single day, even right now? 3'000 people die in and around New York one day and everbody else is just to be forgotten? I could say that some people would like to find out more about what happened that morning and are interested in new revealings, whereas others just close their eyes and try to forget... Which strategy works best do you think? Secondly, I never said that the missile/plane attack was "inspired" by Bush (as if that guy could inspire anybody). It is known that there are a Conservative forces within the States planning on a "New World Order". Did I say it was the CIA who planned that mission? Did I mention any particular names? What the heck does your experience in Venezuela (sic!) have to do with 9/11? Further plans to control the Venezuelan oil reserves or what, just like Afghanistan and Iraq? Explain. And I did not watch "a" DVD, I watched several movies that contain footage from American TV networks and documentaries shot on the day. I repeat myself here: I do not agree a 100% percent with what they have to say, but most of it is pretty disturbing and it raises severe questions about the behaviour and involvement of the American Government, Military and Intelligence. I've said it numerous times in this thread already: If you don't want to argue with people reasonably, at least have the guts and watch the footage for yourself and then decide. Which brings me to a good point: What do you believe happened that day? Your sources of information can be as biased as the ones in the few movies I've seen (second-hand opinion). Which brings us to the exact same level of argumentation. I have a valid opinion. Just like everybody else.
Lemon Harpic Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 Obviously Perhaps you can explain why it's disrespectful to the dead to look at the events of September 11th critically and with an open mind, but it's fine to use their deaths to try to manipulate people so they don't feel they can talk freely?
Daggers Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 Perhaps you can explain why it's disrespectful to the dead to look at the events of September 11th critically and with an open mind, but it's fine to use their deaths to try to manipulate people so they don't feel they can talk freely? This entire thread is not about looking at anything with an open mind - it is about the manipulation of fact in order to make some half-assed political point. I am not using a single death to manipulate anything - I would simply like some of you that live in closed worlds to appreciate that your ignorant comments have an effect on those of us who dwell in an all too real one...
Lemon Harpic Posted 28 May 2006 Posted 28 May 2006 This entire thread is not about looking at anything with an open mind - it is about the manipulation of fact in order to make some half-assed political point. I am not using a single death to manipulate anything - I would simply like some of you that live in closed worlds to appreciate that your ignorant comments have an effect on those of us who dwell in an all too real one... As I've said before, I don't believe the conspiracy theories either. I absolutely believe, however, that it's important that discussions like this are kept open. I still feel the best way to combat an idea you find disagreeable is by using facts, reason and logic, which I prefer to petty insults and emotive manipulation. We agree that SwissFox is probably wrong, we just disagree about which methods to use to debate him.
shen Posted 29 May 2006 Posted 29 May 2006 As I've said before, I don't believe the conspiracy theories either. I absolutely believe, however, that it's important that discussions like this are kept open. I still feel the best way to combat an idea you find disagreeable is by using facts, reason and logic, which I prefer to petty insults and emotive manipulation. We agree that SwissFox is probably wrong, we just disagree about which methods to use to debate him. But unfortunately, in this case, facts, reason and logic are really grey areas. The problem is that even official information does not help one bit. When official sources say that planes and the consequential melting of steel resulted in the collapse of the Twin Towers, how can they be believed? The maximum recorded temperatures in the Towers didn't even reach steel's melting point, and no steel construction has ever collapsed because of a fire. So what did cause a collapse of the buildings? The official explanations just don't hold water! All I'm saying with this is that it's clear to even the most dim idiots out there that the US Government or Intelligence are withholding critical information. It's only bloody natural that people are going to ask questions and be sceptical.
Daggers Posted 29 May 2006 Posted 29 May 2006 But unfortunately, in this case, facts, reason and logic are really grey areas. The problem is that even official information does not help one bit. When official sources say that planes and the consequential melting of steel resulted in the collapse of the Twin Towers, how can they be believed? The maximum recorded temperatures in the Towers didn't even reach steel's melting point, and no steel construction has ever collapsed because of a fire. So what did cause a collapse of the buildings? The official explanations just don't hold water! All I'm saying with this is that it's clear to even the most dim idiots out there that the US Government or Intelligence are withholding critical information. It's only bloody natural that people are going to ask questions and be sceptical. Please cite your sources if you are going to make such statements - if "facts, reason and logic are really grey areas" let's not make them yours...
Babylon Posted 29 May 2006 Posted 29 May 2006 Loose Change, 2nd Edition It's a very interesting film, better than fahrenheit 911. Shame that lots of it is based not on facts but hearsay, still raises a few questions.
Gamesmaster Posted 30 May 2006 Posted 30 May 2006 Discombobulated, what flew into the pentagon? i think it was a plane, but not the boeing 757 that the emerican government would like us to think hit it. The crash scene is 73ft high, 65ft wide, a boeing 757 is 44ft high, 124ft wide. DO THE MATH PEOPLE. IF the american government are lieing about that, then WMD's, then they can lie about anything. Have an opened mind to the possibility that what the government and their media friends tell us, is not the real deal. Were being softened up for attack on Iran (iraq ring a bell?), SwissFox mentioned the "new world order", its a happening.
kenny Posted 30 May 2006 Posted 30 May 2006 When official sources say that planes and the consequential melting of steel resulted in the collapse of the Twin Towers, how can they be believed? The maximum recorded temperatures in the Towers didn't even reach steel's melting point I can only assume that you are unaware that the lateral torsional buckling capacity of steel is significantly reduced when put under high temperatures, even ones much lower than its melting point. Gues what kids, before things melt, they go soft!!! no steel construction has ever collapsed because of a fire. Really?!? You dont recall the B&Q fire in Leicester then? Also why do we bother with a Part B in the building regulations?? If fire is not an issue why do clients have to spend thousands of pounds on every new build protecting the steel?? Why do steel buildings adjacent to other properties have to been designed to collapse in a particular way under fire conditions?? Or maybe these morsals of information are not factual enough for you?
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