Time to Control Social Media and Internet usage

[Guest the fox]

 This is a tricky situation for sure.

 

IMO, most people use social media as a mean to possess a virtual persona instead of a projection of them emitted to an online platform. Sadly it gets exploited by Bad people.

 

I get what you are trying to say @NorthfieldsFox but imo, one of the worst things that a person can do to justify their standing on a matter is to project. Just because you mean well doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do or say. Putting your personal info in the hands of people that you don't know, knowing well that they took advantage of said info time and time again will have you lynched by libertarians.

 

Why should I give out my personal info just because I wanted to interact with others? Isn't the biggest draw of social media is the ability to have a virtual persona? You are trying to transform it from being a virtual community to a projection of real life on a virtual/online setting while giving the authority more power over you. 

 

I lean towards an authoritarian type of community but this is just going too far. They will literally have power over you even on an online platform. Things will get censored and for many, social media would lose its meaning. It's just a "different animal; same beast". 

 

People who are afraid for their personal privity can just use Facebook, only have their friends and family and be done with it. After all, we can trust Mark Zuckerberg to make our info safe, right? Yeah, I don't think so.

 

As for your bookie's point, It a business on an online platform and not social media. Just because I gave my personal info to the bank doesn't mean that I should do the same on a social media platform.

 

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if you have nothing to hide you won’t have an issue with this 

Just because I'm not feeling cold doesn't mean I should be walking around naked. I shouldn't be trusting people I don't know with my personal life.

 

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but when you look deeply at what’s going on in london , extremism , cyber crime , perverts , child abusers  etc... social media and use of the internet is at the heart of the issue ! 

And coughing syrup and sprite are at the heart of lean addiction. Should we start blaming cough syrup because people are using it the wrong way? 

 

If people got a problem with social, don't use it. People knew what they are walking into.

[yorkie1999]

The whole point of the www was freedom without restriction, Then came the lawyers, then came the rules...

[nnfox]

We are still in the infancy of social media.  Facebook is barely a teenager and Snapchat has only been around since 2013. They have fueled a revolution in how we communicate with each other and the world. It has grown so quickly.  This digital age is governed by analogue laws.  Eventually I am sure the laws (and regulation) will catch up.  In the meantime, there are some large parts of the internet that are like the wild west.  

 

[Buce]

52 minutes ago, nnfox said:

I take on board your point and I know lots of people will agree with you.  But in my experience, they usually change their mind when they have a 13 year old daughter duped into sending naked selfies to a paedophile and then get told that the company holding the data that might identify the paedo won't or can't share the data because of a lack of verification process or regulation.

 

One of the problems is that the internet companies are governed by the laws of the country in which they are based.  So US companies do things differently to Canadian companies and Australian and UK.  I am tending to think that there should be some sort of global internet laws, or at least an international code of ethics. 

 

No offence, but when my daughter was thirteen she didn’t have unfettered use of the internet, so that situation would never have occurred. Even now at fifteen, I have software installed to protect her from herself and others. It’s for parents to protect their children, not sweeping laws that take away everyone’s liberties. Allowing governments to police the internet goes against everything I stand for. 

[NorthfieldsFox]

Reading some of the above despite making valid points  I can’t help but feel it is like reading the NRA in America’s propaganda on the 2nd Amendment , that’s not an insult to anyone it’s just what came to my head reading some of it. 

 

I’m not sure the internet was invented for the dark web and social media abuses and it is being abused , it’s only time before the laws catch up 

 

our children are being destroyed By social media , it causes mental health issues on a massive scale attached is some facts from CAMHS 

 

like it or not social media and lack of control and regulation is creating a monster that services are struggling to cope with. 

 

Im worried about my two kids and the world we are creating for future generations , where faceless people can abuse and destroy our children with little or no fear of reprisal 

 

I believe and hope here in Britain and Europe we will wake up to this and soon take control again. 

 

 

[nnfox]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

No offence, but when my daughter was thirteen she didn’t have unfettered use of the internet, so that situation would never have occurred. Even now at fifteen, I have software installed to protect her from herself and others. It’s for parents to protect their children, not sweeping laws that take away everyone’s liberties. Allowing governments to police the internet goes against everything I stand for. 

No offence taken.  And none given here.

 

It's kinda funny actually that you have taken the steps to limit, restrict and control your own daughter's access to the internet but the thought of the government stepping in to protect its people in a less intrusive way goes against your beliefs.

 

I doubt any parent knows their teenager's true internet activity but good for you if you do. Most parents are not so fortunate and unfortunately sometimes things go wrong.  Bad things happen on the internet even to children of very tech savvy parents.  And it doesn't make them bad parents either.

 

I wish all parents were as clued up as you but until that happens, I doubt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude will be the best solution.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

Reading some of the above despite making valid points  I can’t help but feel it is like reading the NRA in America’s propaganda on the 2nd Amendment , that’s not an insult to anyone it’s just what came to my head reading some of it. 

 

I’m not sure the internet was invented for the dark web and social media abuses and it is being abused , it’s only time before the laws catch up 

 

our children are being destroyed By social media , it causes mental health issues on a massive scale attached is some facts from CAMHS 

 

like it or not social media and lack of control and regulation is creating a monster that services are struggling to cope with. 

 

Im worried about my two kids and the world we are creating for future generations , where faceless people can abuse and destroy our children with little or no fear of reprisal 

 

I believe and hope here in Britain and Europe we will wake up to this and soon take control again. 

 

 

 

There is no lack of control - you have it within your power to control your children’s use of social media. 

[nnfox]

Everyone should watch doyoutrustthiscomputer.org

 

78 minutes about AI with an interesting piece on social media and the control it has over you.

 

 

[NorthfieldsFox]

Just now, nnfox said:

No offence taken.  And none given here.

 

It's kinda funny actually that you have taken the steps to limit, restrict and control your own daughter's access to the internet but the thought of the government stepping in to protect its people in a less intrusive way goes against your beliefs.

 

I doubt any parent knows their teenager's true internet activity but good for you if you do. Most parents are not so fortunate and unfortunately sometimes things go wrong.  Bad things happen on the internet even to children of very tech savvy parents.  And it doesn't make them bad parents either.

 

I wish all parents were as clued up as you but until that happens, I doubt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude will be the best solution.

THIS 

 

it’s actually what everyone who is against regulation when asked about what they do with children they always say “we supervise /restrict / monitor” 

 

Which is not what I’m suggesting be applied to everyone , all I’m suggesting is we know who you are and where you live and then crack on and be responsible for your on line behaviour like you are for your off line behaviour 

[NorthfieldsFox]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

There is no lack of control - you have it within your power to control your children’s use of social media. 

Possibly yes and maybe no 

 

all I’m asking for is a KYU (know your user) for every social media company before they allow an account to be opened. 

 

No more no less 

[Buce]

14 minutes ago, nnfox said:

No offence taken.  And none given here.

 

It's kinda funny actually that you have taken the steps to limit, restrict and control your own daughter's access to the internet but the thought of the government stepping in to protect its people in a less intrusive way goes against your beliefs.

 

I doubt any parent knows their teenager's true internet activity but good for you if you do. Most parents are not so fortunate and unfortunately sometimes things go wrong.  Bad things happen on the internet even to children of very tech savvy parents.  And it doesn't make them bad parents either.

 

I wish all parents were as clued up as you but until that happens, I doubt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude will be the best solution.

 

It’s not an ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude - I care about the welfare of other’s children too, like any normal person would. But we have the means to protect our children already, while still treating the rest of us as adults. 

 

I don’t see any contradiction in me restricting/monitoring my child’s internet use and not wanting the government to do the same to me. She is a child - I am not. 

 

As an FYI, you don’t need to be ‘tech savvy’ to keep your kids safe - the software is widely available and simple to use. 

Edited 8 April 2018 by Buce

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, nnfox said:

No offence taken.  And none given here.

 

It's kinda funny actually that you have taken the steps to limit, restrict and control your own daughter's access to the internet but the thought of the government stepping in to protect its people in a less intrusive way goes against your beliefs.

 

I doubt any parent knows their teenager's true internet activity but good for you if you do. Most parents are not so fortunate and unfortunately sometimes things go wrong.  Bad things happen on the internet even to children of very tech savvy parents.  And it doesn't make them bad parents either.

 

I wish all parents were as clued up as you but until that happens, I doubt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude will be the best solution.

If parents don’t pay enough attention to know what their kids are upto on the internet, I very much doubt implementing laws to hamper us all will magically save them from such neglect. It’s not an I’m alright jack attitude, it’s I take responsibility for myself attitude and is commendable. Rather than punish people and strip liberties, we should find information of how to protect ourselves. I wonder what tool we could use to gather such information.....?

[Rogstanley]

15 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

THIS 

 

it’s actually what everyone who is against regulation when asked about what they do with children they always say “we supervise /restrict / monitor” 

 

Which is not what I’m suggesting be applied to everyone , all I’m suggesting is we know who you are and where you live and then crack on and be responsible for your on line behaviour like you are for your off line behaviour 

But you're saying effectively there should be a record of exactly where everyone has been and what they've done online. That's far, far more invasive than the off line world.

[orangecity23]

19 minutes ago, nnfox said:

No offence taken.  And none given here.

 

It's kinda funny actually that you have taken the steps to limit, restrict and control your own daughter's access to the internet but the thought of the government stepping in to protect its people in a less intrusive way goes against your beliefs.

 

I doubt any parent knows their teenager's true internet activity but good for you if you do. Most parents are not so fortunate and unfortunately sometimes things go wrong.  Bad things happen on the internet even to children of very tech savvy parents.  And it doesn't make them bad parents either.

 

I wish all parents were as clued up as you but until that happens, I doubt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude will be the best solution.

How about, not everyone has children, and grown adults with no kids, paying for their internet access do no want compulsory internet censorship being enforced by the bloody government if they want to access a bit of adult content. We already had ISPs offering filtering to parents, but this was "too hard to set up". Then we had ISPs defaulting to automatically offering filtering to all new customers because answering the question "do you have children and would like internet filtering?" was too difficult to answer yes to. So now, we have got a situation where any adult wanting to look at a free porn site will have to hand over their credit card details to a 3rd party "verification" company (aka making massive chunks of the population extremely vulnerable to having their details stolen and becoming victims of fraud, so that they might access completely legal content).

 

I am all in favour of having internet filtering available for parents - just in their own homes and on the mobile phones of their children. The freedom for grown adults to browse legal material of their own choosing should not be automatically restricted because of this.

[Countryfox]

Gang culture thrives on the internet and uses social media to promote and glorify violence ...   no idea what the answer is but someway of reducing that could possibly have an effect on the problem ...   

[NorthfieldsFox]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

But you're saying effectively there should be a record of exactly where everyone has been and what they've done online. That's far, far more invasive than the off line world.

No , sorry if reads like that 

 

all I’m asking for is to open a social media account or get an email address 

 

you have to provide 

 

1) passport or driving licence 

2) utility bill (proof of address) 

 

simple as that no more no less 

[nnfox]

14 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

It’s not an ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude - I care about the welfare of other’s children too, like any normal person would. But we have the means to protect our children already, while still treating the rest of us as adults. 

 

I don’t see any contradiction in me restricting/monitoring my child’s internet use and not wanting the government to do the same to me. She is a child - I am not. 

 

As an FYI, you don’t need to be ‘tech savvy’ to keep your kids safe - the software is widely available and simple to use. 

There are people out there who have children and don't even know what an email address is.  Try telling them it's simple to use. And if it was that simple why do a tiny minority of people use them? 

 

14 minutes ago, Strokes said:

If parents don’t pay enough attention to know what their kids are upto on the internet, I very much doubt implementing laws to hamper us all will magically save them from such neglect. It’s not an I’m alright jack attitude, it’s I take responsibility for myself attitude and is commendable. Rather than punish people and strip liberties, we should find information of how to protect ourselves. I wonder what tool we could use to gather such information.....?

Please explain how your internet usage would be hampered?

 

And I view it as safeguarding people. People doing wrong get punished.

[NorthfieldsFox]

2 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

How about, not everyone has children, and grown adults with no kids, paying for their internet access do no want compulsory internet censorship being enforced by the bloody government if they want to access a bit of adult content. We already had ISPs offering filtering to parents, but this was "too hard to set up". Then we had ISPs defaulting to automatically offering filtering to all new customers because answering the question "do you have children and would like internet filtering?" was too difficult to answer yes to. So now, we have got a situation where any adult wanting to look at a free porn site will have to hand over their credit card details to a 3rd party "verification" company (aka making massive chunks of the population extremely vulnerable to having their details stolen and becoming victims of fraud, so that they might access completely legal content).

 

I am all in favour of having internet filtering available for parents - just in their own homes and on the mobile phones of their children. The freedom for grown adults to browse legal material of their own choosing should not be automatically restricted because of this.

But this is the point they also have the freedom to browse illegal material 

 

how do we stop that ? 

 

I’m not sure full internet control is now possible My post is more geared at controlling/regulating Social Media and Email accounts , to open these you must prove who you are , what age you are and where you live , that should be simple to put in place , with huge fines for social media companies who are lax 

 

 

[NorthfieldsFox]

22 minutes ago, Strokes said:

If parents don’t pay enough attention to know what their kids are upto on the internet, I very much doubt implementing laws to hamper us all will magically save them from such neglect. It’s not an I’m alright jack attitude, it’s I take responsibility for myself attitude and is commendable. Rather than punish people and strip liberties, we should find information of how to protect ourselves. I wonder what tool we could use to gather such information.....?

Two pieces of information to open a social media or email account 

 

1) passport or driving licence 

2) utility bill or the likes 

 

that’s hardly hampering anyone 

 

there is no liberties being restricted , just some accountability and governance being introduced 

[Rogstanley]

1 minute ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

No , sorry if reads like that 

 

all I’m asking for is to open a social media account or get an email address 

 

you have to provide 

 

1) passport or driving licence 

2) utility bill (proof of address) 

 

simple as that no more no less 

Say you do that for Facebook, tonnes of people don't like it and move to another platform. Will you do it to that platform as well? And then the next one, and the next one? It's the gate in an empty field scenario, you can install the most secure gate on the planet but it doesn't matter when people can easily find a way around it.

 

For me the only way you could consistently ensure verification of identity would be to do it at the point of connection to the internet, something like making people sign in to a verified account before they can access the internet, but that would then require everything everyone does online to be recorded. I think it would also be technically difficult if not impossible to stop people finding ways around it.

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Say you do that for Facebook, tonnes of people don't like it and move to another platform. Will you do it to that platform as well? And then the next one, and the next one? It's the gate in an empty field scenario, you can install the most secure gate on the planet but it doesn't matter when people can easily find a way around it.

 

For me the only way you could consistently ensure verification of identity would be to do it at the point of connection to the internet, something like making people sign in to a verified account before they can access the internet, but that would then require everything everyone does online to be recorded. I think it would also be technically difficult if not impossible to stop people finding ways around it.

 

Whoaa there Rog !! ...   you might be ok with people knowing that you log on to 'Russia Today' all the time but I don't want anyone tracking me when I google 'Fat dw*rves taking it up the shi**er' !! ...      

[nnfox]

I totally agree with @NorthfieldsFox. The point he is trying to make is that the company offering the service should be compelled to take greater steps to verify their users' identities.

 

That's a good idea.  But even if that didn't happen, there is still data that the companies hold that could be used to identify the real user. I think if someone in the UK uses an Australian site (for instance) to abuse someone else in the UK, then the Australian company should be compelled to share the data it already holds with UK agencies instead of hiding behind Australian legislation saying "we respect the privacy of all our users and won't share anything with you".  That's a crazy situation. Right?

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, nnfox said:

And if it was that simple why do a tiny minority of people use them? 

 

 

Lack of awareness that it exists, perhaps? Or an assumption that it’s too complicated for them?

 

I wouldn’t regard myself as tech savvy by any means - hell, I have to get the missus to change the clock on the microwave - but I find the software simple to use. 

[NorthfieldsFox]

7 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Say you do that for Facebook, tonnes of people don't like it and move to another platform. Will you do it to that platform as well? And then the next one, and the next one? It's the gate in an empty field scenario, you can install the most secure gate on the planet but it doesn't matter when people can easily find a way around it.

 

For me the only way you could consistently ensure verification of identity would be to do it at the point of connection to the internet, something like making people sign in to a verified account before they can access the internet, but that would then require everything everyone does online to be recorded. I think it would also be technically difficult if not impossible to stop people finding ways around it.

Yes every platform must register and pay associated fee’s would mean easy to tax these cowboys as well 

 

the law would say and confirm what would constitute social media or social interaction online and to open one of those accounts you must produce 

 

1) passport/driving licence 

2) utility bill or similar 

 

 

[orangecity23]

2 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

No , sorry if reads like that 

 

all I’m asking for is to open a social media account or get an email address 

 

you have to provide 

 

1) passport or driving licence 

2) utility bill (proof of address) 

 

simple as that no more no less 

The slight problem with that, as the Cambridge Analytica and Facebook story recently has shown, is what risks the social media site having access to your proof of address and passport information will do. We have already seen Facebook has very little regard for the security of it's users information, CA harvested enormous amounts of data not just from people who took a quiz, but also from their contacts! Any kind of verification like that needs to be carried out by a trustworthy organization - probably the government. But as the soon to be implemented porn restrictions have shown they won't be doing that - but farming it out to extremely untrustworthy, insecure 3rd party companies. CA managed to engage in election tampering with the info they gathered from Facebook in its current form. God knows what the other dodgy companies and fraudsters could do if they got their hands on people's addresses and passport information. Basically you are handing over all the info needed to set up a bank account or borrow money in your name to a company with a sketchy record of handing that info over to advertisers and fraudsters.

 

2 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

But this is the point they also have the freedom to browse illegal material 

 

how do we stop that ? 

 

I’m not sure full internet control is now possible My post is more geared at controlling/regulating Social Media and Email accounts , to open these you must prove who you are , what age you are and where you live , that should be simple to put in place , with huge fines for social media companies who are lax 

 

 

You have the freedom to speed in your car, and that's illegal - the reason you don't is because you might get caught, and because you know it's illegal. Content on the internet should be the responsibility of the people who host it, and the people who upload it. Which it is. People who upload illegal child porn, or copyright infringing content, or revenge porn, get caught, and get punished. I think what we need is much improved moderation on Social Media - there obviously is difficulties in policing such huge amounts of content. Also, clearly there are issues around resourcing the efforts to catch people putting up illegal content, which need more work. I must admit social media isn't really so much of my concern, given that I don't really use it. But I would be extremely wary of what restrictions our government would put in place, given their previous track records of abusing the law for wide scale data collection, inept implementation of new regulations with regards to the internet and the substantial effect lobbyists for large media companies have on our politicians (Rupert Murdoch et al).