Penalty squabble

[Uncle Monty]

On 16/04/2024 at 04:48, foxile5 said:

I've plenty to say about this current Chelsea team and not a great deal of it is positive but my major bug bear - this 'Cold Palmer and 'shivering' celebration.

 

Firstly : it's the footballing equivalent of trampling American dog eggs across our carpet, if you'll excuse the metaphor. This 'ice in his veins' nonsense is a direct import from the US sports traditions, particularly basketball. We should be ashamed that the players and fans are pandering to their sports heritage the way they are. We have our own traditions, our own heritage. We should be proud of our own national game and not looking to import the nomenclature of another nations - particularly one so crass. And, as I've pointed out numerous times in the past, it's the death by a thousand cuts effect it has. The language of the sports has been slowly Americanised. It's only a short jump to the game becoming Americanised. It DOES happen and we should resist.

 

Secondly : the idea of personalised celebration is totally narcissitic. The ego of the sportsperson has accelerated out of control in recent times. They contribute nothing to the world and take so much. If you took away Doctors, binmen, sewerage works and so on then society would be negatively effected. If you took away sports people then there are other outlets of entertainment. They are a drain. We feed this black hole of self-obsession when we start lionising stupid little personal celebrations. He ought to be booed on principle. He thinks that he's important, that he has a foothold in the running of society and he matters on a large scale when the opposite is the truth. Don't feed that. 

 

Anyway. That's my two peeneth.

Regarding the Americanisation of language - nobody owns a language. It is ever changing and picking up new phrases and terms.

 

I wonder if the ye olde English would be mad at how French or Flemish some of our words sound yet we think it's "proper British".

 

That being said, I ****in cringe when anyone says the word "PK" instead of peno. 

 

 

 

 

[foxile5]

21 hours ago, The_77 said:

That’s exactly what you’re highlighting, though. You’re completely unaware of how footballers behave in other countries, and English football league is comprised of players from all over the world but want to blame America for Cole Palmer’s celebration. 

I’m not defending all influence of American ownership in the game and I didn’t say a damn word about the Super League. 

That you would use a stupid little celebration by Cole Palmer as an excuse to go on your diatribes says a lot more about you than any American influence in the game. 

No - I'm not 'completely unaware' of how footballers behave. It simply isn't what I'm posting about. I'm talking about the Americanisation of British sports and not the Americanisation of South American sports. For what it's worth - there are traditions in the South Americas that I wouldn't want porting over here, either. And I can see elements of Americanisation there (which is to be entirely expected given how big American sports are globally). 

 

Yes - I do point to America as the reason for these silly celebrations and linguistic shift. Simply because it IS from America. This 'Ice in his veins' stuff is directly lifted  from the basketball culture. It's an Americanisation. As are the 'fan cams' I'm seeing more and more at football grounds as well as the T-Shirt Cannons that are making their way in. All popularised in American sports. It is a steady process of Americanisation. And because I'm a fan attending 80% of games home and away during a season I see this and I'm allowed to voice that concern.

 

I know you didn't mention the Super League. I was using it as a supportive comment based on the Americanisation of British sports. That's because it is evidence of a move away  from a footballing pyramid (British) to a closed-shop franchise model (American). 

 

"to go on your diatribes" is a ridiculous comment and I'll say nothing beyond this - the only one who has been abusive and needling towards the other is you. I've met your points with explanations rooted in what I see and experience as a match going fan. You've responded by being hysterical and telling me what I'm seeing isn't happening. You've been insulting too. 

 

British football is Americanising. We can see that happening (as the vast majority on here are MATCH GOING FANS). And as a culture we have a right to object to it. You don't get to dictate that. 

[Chelmofox]

8 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

No - I'm not 'completely unaware' of how footballers behave. It simply isn't what I'm posting about. I'm talking about the Americanisation of British sports and not the Americanisation of South American sports. For what it's worth - there are traditions in the South Americas that I wouldn't want porting over here, either. And I can see elements of Americanisation there (which is to be entirely expected given how big American sports are globally). 

 

Yes - I do point to America as the reason for these silly celebrations and linguistic shift. Simply because it IS from America. This 'Ice in his veins' stuff is directly lifted  from the basketball culture. It's an Americanisation. As are the 'fan cams' I'm seeing more and more at football grounds as well as the T-Shirt Cannons that are making their way in. All popularised in American sports. It is a steady process of Americanisation. And because I'm a fan attending 80% of games home and away during a season I see this and I'm allowed to voice that concern.

 

I know you didn't mention the Super League. I was using it as a supportive comment based on the Americanisation of British sports. That's because it is evidence of a move away  from a footballing pyramid (British) to a closed-shop franchise model (American). 

 

"to go on your diatribes" is a ridiculous comment and I'll say nothing beyond this - the only one who has been abusive and needling towards the other is you. I've met your points with explanations rooted in what I see and experience as a match going fan. You've responded by being hysterical and telling me what I'm seeing isn't happening. You've been insulting too. 

 

British football is Americanising. We can see that happening (as the vast majority on here are MATCH GOING FANS). And as a culture we have a right to object to it. You don't get to dictate that. 

The world has shrunk and continues to shrink. Cultures from all different things start to converge. Might as why just blame popular culture and the how the internet and social media make everything immediately accessible. 

 

I draw the line on whether what is coming in negatively impacts the sport or the opportunities that people could benefit from sport. I think Cole Palmer is a brilliant player and i love watching him play, but even my son thinks he looks like an idiot doing that celebration. It doesn't matter if its origin is american, scottish or from out of space - it makes him look like a knob.  But, it's not causing an issue to the sport and its not hurting anyone. Same as the fan cam really. Funny that my 12 year old son hates it and cringes at each clip, but we sit there an ignore it.

 

The americanisation that concerns me comes from the club ownership an the influence this has on the direction the sport takes, rules and how things are funded. This threatens everything from grass roots up to the non big 6.

[purpleronnie]

23 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

No - I'm not 'completely unaware' of how footballers behave. It simply isn't what I'm posting about. I'm talking about the Americanisation of British sports and not the Americanisation of South American sports. For what it's worth - there are traditions in the South Americas that I wouldn't want porting over here, either. And I can see elements of Americanisation there (which is to be entirely expected given how big American sports are globally). 

 

Yes - I do point to America as the reason for these silly celebrations and linguistic shift. Simply because it IS from America. This 'Ice in his veins' stuff is directly lifted  from the basketball culture. It's an Americanisation. As are the 'fan cams' I'm seeing more and more at football grounds as well as the T-Shirt Cannons that are making their way in. All popularised in American sports. It is a steady process of Americanisation. And because I'm a fan attending 80% of games home and away during a season I see this and I'm allowed to voice that concern.

 

I know you didn't mention the Super League. I was using it as a supportive comment based on the Americanisation of British sports. That's because it is evidence of a move away  from a footballing pyramid (British) to a closed-shop franchise model (American). 

 

"to go on your diatribes" is a ridiculous comment and I'll say nothing beyond this - the only one who has been abusive and needling towards the other is you. I've met your points with explanations rooted in what I see and experience as a match going fan. You've responded by being hysterical and telling me what I'm seeing isn't happening. You've been insulting too. 

 

British football is Americanising. We can see that happening (as the vast majority on here are MATCH GOING FANS). And as a culture we have a right to object to it. You don't get to dictate that. 

You'll have a fight on your hands as the new generation don't care in fact embrace most of it.  America will become more and more dominent in our market.  Wait for the expanded world club championship, the EFL games played in America etc....Thats where 'soccer' is going.

[foxile5]

8 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

The world has shrunk and continues to shrink. Cultures from all different things start to converge. Might as why just blame popular culture and the how the internet and social media make everything immediately accessible. 

 

I draw the line on whether what is coming in negatively impacts the sport or the opportunities that people could benefit from sport. I think Cole Palmer is a brilliant player and i love watching him play, but even my son thinks he looks like an idiot doing that celebration. It doesn't matter if its origin is american, scottish or from out of space - it makes him look like a knob.  But, it's not causing an issue to the sport and its not hurting anyone. Same as the fan cam really. Funny that my 12 year old son hates it and cringes at each clip, but we sit there an ignore it.

 

The americanisation that concerns me comes from the club ownership an the influence this has on the direction the sport takes, rules and how things are funded. This threatens everything from grass roots up to the non big 6.

Agreed - globalisation is occuring and, as you put it, shrinking the world. American happens to be providing the cultural narrative/dialogue for the West's ever shrinking template.

 

You're very much correct on the Americanisation of ownership. The point I was trying to make, I suppose, is that the broader and more transformative Americanisation of ownership and league model is pathed by the little shifts. The copying of the language of American sports. The wearing of a single arm-band to look like an NBA player - this was directly admitted by Pogba...he copied basketballers and wanted to be known for doing it. It's the whole small package of things that creates a fertile grounds for the bigger changes to occur. If you'll read in my previous posts I point that out - it's pathed the way for rank and file change. The poster I was responding too became hostile at that suggestion but, same as you and your lad, I see these changes at the ground and have witnessed the protests at the proposed league changes by American owners.

[foxile5]

9 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

You'll have a fight on your hands as the new generation don't care in fact embrace most of it.  America will become more and more dominent in our market.  Wait for the expanded world club championship, the EFL games played in America etc....Thats where 'soccer' is going.

The fight is long lost, sadly, but I do keep saying it just so folks are aware. I find it gauche and prefer the old ways but accept I'm probably a dying breed. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't resist.

 

If you listen to The_77 we're both wrong, we're both ignorant, and it isn't happening. Except it is and we should make some effort to resist it...futile as though it may be.

[Gamble92]

I think there were positives and negatives to us having Kasper, Morgan and Vardy seen in the way they were by the club. One of the positives is shit like this would never have gone on. 

 

The risk you always had was them becoming too powerful which I think did happen.