System Change

[Jazzy_Jeff]

As mentioned in the pre-Forest match thread, it’s clear to me that we need to try a new system in order to remedy our issues in defence and attack.

 

Defensively we are disorganised and easy to get at, in attack we are lacking a threat and whilst we have scored in every game this is purely down to good conversion not due to chance creation.

 

A 3-4-1-2 or 3-4-2-1 system would suit us a lot better in my opinion.

 

Defence needs Vestergaard in it. He has his critics but if our defensive line is right and if he has pace around him he can be an asset both with his defensive work and use of the ball. Kristensen has been our best fullback but still think he is better suited to a wingback role which he excelled in at Bologna and for Denmark. Fatawu can play the right hand side as does good defensive work and I believe attacks better coming from deep.

 

In centre midfield I think Winks and Skipp would be our best duo. Know each others game well and styles compliment each other. 
 

In the attacking third I would then go for Buananotte, Ayew and Vardy with the flexibility of being 2 either side of Vardy or Ayew joining Vardy as a front two with Buenanotte as a 10. Vardy is the GOAT - there’s no denying that. He’s done well in front of goal this season but clear to see he is isolated and needs support. Ayew hasn’t set the world alight but you know what you’re getting. He works hard, keeps the ball and makes defenders work. Buenanotte is our magician and we need him on the ball, this system does that.

 

This would leave a bench from Ricardo, JJ, Coady, Ndidi, Soumare, Bilal, Mavididi, Daka, Edouard and BDCR. 

 

Regardless if you are with me, we should all be unanimous in saying something needs to change. If it is not cooper yet, he needs to be brave enough to try something new. 

[Elsie Effcee]

After last night,  I wonder if any system can change the fact that too many careless mistakes are being made in all areas !  When goals are happening because of sloppy passing something needs looking at beyond player positions maybe.

[Will1981]

I agree a 3/5 back would suit us better something like this:

 

Mads

 

Faes - Vesty - Okoli

 

Fatawa - Winks - Ndidi - LWB

 

Buonanotte - Vardy - Mavididi

 

the only issue would be who to play as wingbacks I feel that Fatawa would be fine at RWB as he knows the role from his time at Sporting and is very good defensively, but who would we play at LWB as both Ricardo and Justin and bang out of form and Thomas and Kristiansen are not good enough going forward to play the wingback role, so maybe McAteer who played LWB a lot for the youth teams.

[Xen]

4 hours ago, Elsie Effcee said:

After last night,  I wonder if any system can change the fact that too many careless mistakes are being made in all areas !  When goals are happening because of sloppy passing something needs looking at beyond player positions maybe.

Indeed.

 

When players are constantly switching off and passing is a league 1 standard at best, there's no system in the world that'd make that competitive enough for the prem. Forest weren't particularly special yesterday, but we gifted them all 3 goals and would've been more if not for Mads. That's (constant) individual errors either giving away chances or at minimum inviting more pressure onto ourselves.

[inckley fox]

Funnily enough, after the second half against Southampton I wondered if we might go with three at the back yesterday, especially when I heard about Kristiansen's absence. The defence has been very shaky and it wouldn't hurt to throw Coady or even Vestergard, when fit, in there.

 

The problem lies with the attacking options if we go 3-5-2 or 3-4-2-1, because a Vardy-Ayew strike force lacks pace on the counter, and the 3-4-2-1 requires two more central attacking mids. Facundo is one of them, but I don't see Bilal as being ready to be the other.

 

A more standard 3-4-3 could work but as someone pointed out, the LWB might be an issue there.

[funkyrobot]

4 hours ago, Jazzy_Jeff said:

As mentioned in the pre-Forest match thread, it’s clear to me that we need to try a new system in order to remedy our issues in defence and attack.

 

Defensively we are disorganised and easy to get at, in attack we are lacking a threat and whilst we have scored in every game this is purely down to good conversion not due to chance creation.

 

A 3-4-1-2 or 3-4-2-1 system would suit us a lot better in my opinion.

 

Defence needs Vestergaard in it. He has his critics but if our defensive line is right and if he has pace around him he can be an asset both with his defensive work and use of the ball. Kristensen has been our best fullback but still think he is better suited to a wingback role which he excelled in at Bologna and for Denmark. Fatawu can play the right hand side as does good defensive work and I believe attacks better coming from deep.

 

In centre midfield I think Winks and Skipp would be our best duo. Know each others game well and styles compliment each other. 
 

In the attacking third I would then go for Buananotte, Ayew and Vardy with the flexibility of being 2 either side of Vardy or Ayew joining Vardy as a front two with Buenanotte as a 10. Vardy is the GOAT - there’s no denying that. He’s done well in front of goal this season but clear to see he is isolated and needs support. Ayew hasn’t set the world alight but you know what you’re getting. He works hard, keeps the ball and makes defenders work. Buenanotte is our magician and we need him on the ball, this system does that.

 

This would leave a bench from Ricardo, JJ, Coady, Ndidi, Soumare, Bilal, Mavididi, Daka, Edouard and BDCR. 

 

Regardless if you are with me, we should all be unanimous in saying something needs to change. If it is not cooper yet, he needs to be brave enough to try something new. 

Not a bad plan, only problem is Vesty and Cooper don’t get on. The ‘ankle injury’ aside, he isn’t going to get much in the way of game time whilst Cooper is in charge.

[FOXYTALK]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Indeed.

 

When players are constantly switching off and passing is a league 1 standard at best, there's no system in the world that'd make that competitive enough for the prem. Forest weren't particularly special yesterday, but we gifted them all 3 goals and would've been more if not for Mads. That's (constant) individual errors either giving away chances or at minimum inviting more pressure onto ourselves.

To be fair we were battered second half. They should have scored at least 2x more. 

[FosseSpark]

if we drop the 'most regular' culprits of the 'brain farts' that drop us in the shit the team would look more like

 

Hermansen 

Coady Vestegaard Okoli

Ricardo Winks

Bouna Ndidi El Khannous Mavididi

Vardy

 

for me: 

Faes is responsible for 7-8 absolutely comically dropped bollocks per season. He did it when we went down and he's doing it again now. I like him as a player but even in his best performances he nearly gifts the opposition a goal. At his worst he pulls the rug on the efforts of the rest of the team when he should be being a leader.

Justin has been beaten all ends up about 5 or 6 times in the first 9 games and needs to do less interviews about what a great journey he's been on / england aspirations and more time focusing on stopping crosses into the box. He doesn't stop enough and that's really his only job. 

Winks only really survives on the basis that he has and should work well with Vestegaard and Ricardo in the middle of the park to help us assert ourself vs bottom half opposition.

Buonanotte played great coming off the right vs Bournemouth. It also minimised our exposure to him losing the ball in the middle of the park (which he did a lot against Forest). Can always move inside later for Fatawu on 60 mins if needed. Means we can let Fatawu play 30mins per game for next 10 games and then hopefully kick on in the second half of the season.

El Khannous and Ndidi give you two proper number 8's to link things together. EK looked really up for it when we were being done over by Forest which was a good sign. 

Vardy - because we have literally no one else. 

 

Oh, and Cooper out. Not entirely certain who for, but if we move now we get to take our pick of what's available. Corberan, a 31 year old German, Southgate - not bothered, but he's not good enough so we need to put someone in place in order to spend a bit of cash in January. Let's not relive the slow motion car crash of giving Rodgers too long in the relegation season. 

 

[Matt]

I don't claim to be any tactic purist, far from it, but I think the system was changed somewhat last night.

 

People are lauding Winks for calling Cooper out, chucking him under the bus, whatever, and that Winks claims the goal came from what we did last season.

 

It may have, but that's also kind of my point, I think they system and way we played last night was similar (No carbon copy, but similarities) to last season, the goal may well have came from playing that way, however stupid, silly defensive mistakes, needless playing out and an actual hammering (That many had been predicting every week) also ensued because of it.

 

It also came across as soft, weak and half arsed.

 

Edited 26 October 2024 by Matt

[Gamble92]

I think we just needed a manager to come in and impose his style. Whatever that might have been and really go for it. 

 

When you're trying to appease a group because they liked the last manager so much and you end up with half and half philosophy you are doomed to fail. 

 

I really did rate Cooper before he come in and I've given him as long with my support but losing to Forest at home like that should only happen if they're miles ahead of us. They're just better coached and drilled. That kind of stuff is non negotiable. 

 

And the interviews are always the same. Yeah it's on me. Yeah we didn't do this and that and must learn. 

 

It's just a matter of when he gets sacked now. I think last night against your biggest rivals would be enough for most boards in the country to react. We know ours will give it a loss at Ipswich and Man United before acting though. 

[Paninistickers]

We miss Vestergaard's immense self confidence and with it, his leadership qualities. 

 

3421

 

Mads

Fes Vesty Okoli 

JJ winks Skipp VK

Buonnotte Wilf 

Stephy up top (Vards just can't do the role)

 

Look to introduce Ricky, Abdul, Ayew, Vards McAteer depending on game scenario 

[HesNotGudjonsonn2]

Didn’t want to start a new thread and thought my question best fit in here.

 

Am I right in thinking that Buononotte was marking Chris Wood for their corners? Did I see that right? The smallest man on our team.

[funkyrobot]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

I don't claim to be any tactic purist, far from it, but I think the system was changed somewhat last night.

 

People are lauding Winks for calling Cooper out, chucking him under the bus, whatever, and that Winks claims the goal came from what we did last season.

 

It may have, but that's also kind of my point, I think they system and way we played last night was similar (No carbon copy, but similarities) to last season, the goal may well have came from playing that way, however stupid, silly defensive mistakes, needless playing out and an actual hammering (That many had been predicting every week) also ensued because of it.

 

It also came across as soft, weak and half arsed.

 

We’ve had all of these playing whatever system Cooper has deployed this season. 

[Elsie Effcee]

When players are not included in the line up, we call Cooper out and wonder what's going on ...... Then when our wish comes true and those players (like Ricardo and Fatawu) come back, they never seem to play to our expectations, why is that?  Now the call is for the return of Vestergaard so I hope it's not a bad omen

[JimJams]

4 hours ago, FosseSpark said:

if we drop the 'most regular' culprits of the 'brain farts' that drop us in the shit the team would look more like

 

Hermansen 

Coady Vestegaard Okoli

Ricardo Winks

Bouna Ndidi El Khannous Mavididi

Vardy

 

for me: 

Faes is responsible for 7-8 absolutely comically dropped bollocks per season. He did it when we went down and he's doing it again now. I like him as a player but even in his best performances he nearly gifts the opposition a goal. At his worst he pulls the rug on the efforts of the rest of the team when he should be being a leader.

Justin has been beaten all ends up about 5 or 6 times in the first 9 games and needs to do less interviews about what a great journey he's been on / england aspirations and more time focusing on stopping crosses into the box. He doesn't stop enough and that's really his only job. 

Winks only really survives on the basis that he has and should work well with Vestegaard and Ricardo in the middle of the park to help us assert ourself vs bottom half opposition.

Buonanotte played great coming off the right vs Bournemouth. It also minimised our exposure to him losing the ball in the middle of the park (which he did a lot against Forest). Can always move inside later for Fatawu on 60 mins if needed. Means we can let Fatawu play 30mins per game for next 10 games and then hopefully kick on in the second half of the season.

El Khannous and Ndidi give you two proper number 8's to link things together. EK looked really up for it when we were being done over by Forest which was a good sign. 

Vardy - because we have literally no one else. 

 

Oh, and Cooper out. Not entirely certain who for, but if we move now we get to take our pick of what's available. Corberan, a 31 year old German, Southgate - not bothered, but he's not good enough so we need to put someone in place in order to spend a bit of cash in January. Let's not relive the slow motion car crash of giving Rodgers too long in the relegation season. 

 

Not really sure how you can start a post saying drop players based on brain farts and then insert Coady into a side when in 7 minutes of football this season he's turned 3 points into 1.  On that basis if he gets a full game the opposition will be setting a scoring record. I'm assuming you're just going with the slim pickings approach.