What is the point?

[The Year Of The Fox]

20 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

So much of the damage has been caused by the brain dead decisions in the first relegation season. The club was so terrified of breaking PSR and getting a PL points deduction, that they got rid of Kasper to save on wages, did the bare minimum to replace Fofana and worst of all, kept Rodgers for months longer than he should have had. Keeping Kasper or binning the Bodge earlier would have been enough to stay up, and fellow PSR breakers Everton or Forest would have gone down in our place. The following season, we would have had a points deduction, but as Everton and the filthy cheating trees have proven, it would have been no great impediment. 

 

We on the other hand, intentionally got ourselves relegated to avoid a points deduction that might have got us relegated, fecked our PSR allowances into the floor by dropping into the championship a second time, lost every single player of Any value we had for under market rate, destroyed our squad value and set ourselves up to be marooned in the championship or lower for years to come, whilst adding more expensive shit like Skipp onto our books to cause problems for years to come, because the cheap clueless Gremlin manager we picked up (because our DoF has a contact list so short that it would fit onto a mouse's business card) needs to have an ex-england u17 player with him at all times like a comfort blanket, so he can have one player stick up for him in the dressing room when the rest of them quickly twig that he is a useless chancer with the coaching ability and tactical knowledge of a boiled potato.

 

This has all been entirely avoidable, but the people running the club were so focussed on psr they allowed the real financial danger of relegation to occur instead. Now we are stuck in a league where everyone makes losses, we will not financially recover for years to come. Everything we built up in our most successful period in our history has been destroyed, all for the sake of delaying a compensation payment to Brendan Rodgers that we ended up paying a few months afterwards anyway.

 

And with all that damage done, we didn't even avoid the PSR problem we were trying to prevent in the first place. It is still hanging over us, and will hang over us every season from now on, because there is no way we will return to financial good health in the championship, because out costs are too high and the TV revenue here is shit compared to the pl.

Apart from all that, Tops running the club well

[when_you're_smiling]

51 minutes ago, murphy said:

Amartey, Ward, Praet, Vestergaard off the top of my head.

 

Unless you're saying they're not good enough to be skybet?

None of them were playing though. 
 

Completely agree with your other post about the change in requirement!

[murphy]

2 hours ago, when_you're_smiling said:

None of them were playing though. 
 

Completely agree with your other post about the change in requirement!

Amartey and Ward were very much playing.  Far too much in my opinion.  I'm still in therapy about it.  Praet and Vestergaard less so, but they are still examples of failed signings in that squad.

 

 

Edited 22 August 2025 by murphy

[Guest Bilo]

This is why I have a wry smile to myself whenever people say how brilliantly run Brentford, Brighton and Forest are. 

 

We were the model four years ago. The club everyone aspired to be. Bought low, sold high, excellent scouting, world class training facilities, regular European football and trophies in the cabinet. We looked as if we were run by geniuses. Our position as a medium sized club dining at the same table as giants looked locked in forever.

 

Now Brentford, Brighton and Forest are those clubs, but minus the last two of trophies and regular European football.

 

PSR and the predatory behaviour of the Big Six that it enables are a two pronged attack that ensure one, two or all three of them will be the next us by 2030. Brentford look like they'll be first. Brighton are a bad summer away. Forest are, in reality, a botched replacement of Nuno away. Because it's so brutal for all but the biggest clubs that any misstep is punished with the utmost brutality. An injury crisis, poor summer's recruitment or thd wrong managerial appointment and your time in the sun is over. 

 

As they are, we once were. As we are, they will be.

 

Because if 2020's geniuses are 2025's clowns, who's to say that 2025's geniuses won't be 2030's clowns? Almost as if it's by design.

 

Because Manchester United have made error after error that would have been catastrophic for every other club. Spurs would have been in relegation trouble were it not for the incompetence of Ipswich, Southampton and Leicester. Arsenal last won a major trophy during Covid despite spending nearly a billion. These aren't well-run clubs, they're protected. Any one of those would have been sunk into oblivion by a corrupt system. 

 

In reality, the best we can hope for is another period of briefly competing with them and bloodying their noses before it goes tits up again. Rebuild, get promoted, punch above our weight for a season or two while building some memories and then wait to be put back in our box. Unless you're Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Tottenham or Chelsea, that's the sum of your ambition. Newcastle and Villa at a push might be able to break it, but anyone else? No.

 

We didn't build a long-term legacy because UEFA didn't want 'too many Leicester City' stories so mistakes we made were brutally punished. Brentford won't be able to, Brighton won't be able to, Forest won't be able to. Christ alive, even Villa and Newcastle can't and they're far bigger than any of us.

[murphy]

18 minutes ago, Bilo said:

This is why I have a wry smile to myself whenever people say how brilliantly run Brentford, Brighton and Forest are. 

 

We were the model four years ago. The club everyone aspired to be. Bought low, sold high, excellent scouting, world class training facilities, regular European football and trophies in the cabinet. We looked as if we were run by geniuses. Our position as a medium sized club dining at the same table as giants looked locked in forever.

 

Now Brentford, Brighton and Forest are those clubs, but minus the last two of trophies and regular European football.

 

PSR and the predatory behaviour of the Big Six that it enables are a two pronged attack that ensure one, two or all three of them will be the next us by 2030. Brentford look like they'll be first. Brighton are a bad summer away. Forest are, in reality, a botched replacement of Nuno away. Because it's so brutal for all but the biggest clubs that any misstep is punished with the utmost brutality. An injury crisis, poor summer's recruitment or thd wrong managerial appointment and your time in the sun is over. 

 

As they are, we once were. As we are, they will be.

 

Because if 2020's geniuses are 2025's clowns, who's to say that 2025's geniuses won't be 2030's clowns? Almost as if it's by design.

 

Because Manchester United have made error after error that would have been catastrophic for every other club. Spurs would have been in relegation trouble were it not for the incompetence of Ipswich, Southampton and Leicester. Arsenal last won a major trophy during Covid despite spending nearly a billion. These aren't well-run clubs, they're protected. Any one of those would have been sunk into oblivion by a corrupt system. 

 

In reality, the best we can hope for is another period of briefly competing with them and bloodying their noses before it goes tits up again. Rebuild, get promoted, punch above our weight for a season or two while building some memories and then wait to be put back in our box. Unless you're Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Tottenham or Chelsea, that's the sum of your ambition. Newcastle and Villa at a push might be able to break it, but anyone else? No.

 

We didn't build a long-term legacy because UEFA didn't want 'too many Leicester City' stories so mistakes we made were brutally punished. Brentford won't be able to, Brighton won't be able to, Forest won't be able to. Christ alive, even Villa and Newcastle can't and they're far bigger than any of us.

You seem to be saying that our fall from grace was inevitable.  Personally, I think it was an act of cataclysmic self-harm.  Or more accurately, a long list of successive acts of self-harm.  Mistakes are inevitable but I think from the position we held, we could have lived with a few if we also made the occasional smart move alongside.  

[Guest Bilo]

Just now, murphy said:

You seem to be saying that our fall from grace was inevitable.  Personally, I think it was an act of cataclysmic self-harm.  Or more accurately, a long list of successive acts of self-harm.  Mistakes are inevitable but I think from the position we held, we could have lived with a few if we also made the occasional smart move alongside.  

Mistakes look like acts of cataclysmic self-harm because PSR is designed to put clubs who punch above their weight right in their box at the earliest opportunity. That opportunity will either be bad luck or poor decision making. Lose too much money, finish a couple of places lower than you expect and they're on you like a tramp on chips.

 

Now you're down £20-odd million on what you budgeted for, which means either a fire sale of players or touching your toes for the points deduction with no lube.

 

What did for us was the 2021 transfer window after winning the cup. Big contracts handed out to players of limited ability and failing to sell a key asset. Rectify that by selling, say, Tielemans at peak value and we're able to either invest in the squad for the 22-23 season, sack Rodgers when it went sour and replace him properly or both.

 

Result? We don't go down and the spiral stops before it starts. And that's it - one bad window that leads to PSR disasters, Enzo leaving us after we breeze to Championship promotion, not being able to buy quality players or appoint a quality replacement for Enzo due to uncertainty surrounding spending and points deductions, going down without a whimper and now being but a shadow of what we were before 2021. Because that's what we can trace it back to. Few were calling for Rudkin's head, much less Top's, when Youri scored a thunderbastard to win us the cup. Rumblings about bottling UCL qualification twice in succession, yes. But imminent disaster? No.

 

Now Brentford have sold key players and are managed by a set piece coach. A poor summer. Result? They're the most likely non-promoted side to drop. If Forest replace Nuno badly if (as looks likely) he leaves? Expect a spiral. Both clubs will end up lamenting a pattern of 'cataclysmic self-harm' if it results in them selling anyone of value within four years like us, but it will all be traced back to one bad summer or even one bad decision. Because that's what PSR does - punishes upstarts as soon as they drop the ball while allowing Man United, Arsenal and Spurs to blow billions and appoint bum after bum as manager with only a Europa League to show between them since we won the cup. 

[Tuna]

On 21/08/2025 at 15:49, dayday said:

Didn’t help that our recruitment since winning the league has been pretty shocking 

Perhaps, but amongst the dross there have been Ricardo, Maddison, Tielemans, Fofana, Maguire etc. It's been mixed.

[Guest Bilo]

1 minute ago, Tuna said:

Perhaps, but amongst the dross there have been Ricardo, Maddison, Tielemans, Fofana, Maguire etc. It's been mixed.

And that's the rub. Excellent transfer windows are underrewarded for clubs of our size and poor ones are brutally punished. Same goes for managerial appointments. 

[Globalfox]

4 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Perhaps, but amongst the dross there have been Ricardo, Maddison, Tielemans, Fofana, Maguire etc. It's been mixed.

Fofana was brilliant business for us all that money for a sick note player now sidelined at Chelsea. That alone shows it is not just us that makes errors. They even sent him to the USA for a second medical opinion and got it wrong. We had Edourad all last year and never played him then Glassner is putting him on last night in a European competition. Managers and coaches see players totally differently to supporters.

[dayday]

9 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Perhaps, but amongst the dross there have been Ricardo, Maddison, Tielemans, Fofana, Maguire etc. It's been mixed.

After all the money we’ve spunked that’s not a lot since 2016 

[Tuna]

1 minute ago, dayday said:

After all the money we’ve spunked that’s not a lot since 2016 

It wasn't intended to be a list of every signing that is considered good/decent.

 

I'm sure you can suggest other players yourself.

 

Ndidi, for example, was not listed.

[Foxdiamond]

At this rate might be an Idea to take your boots with you to the match .You might get a game!

[Andrew]

On 21/08/2025 at 15:01, Trav Le Bleu said:

In any club outside the big six trying to be successful?

 

Any time a club like ourselves or Brighton or or Crystal Palace have a bit of success and produce some talent, even though you've put a good team together, the big six (plus big teams abroad) just come along and take the best players (Chelsea especially with their plethora of not even bench warming stars).

 

I'm almost at the point where I don't want us to have any star players, cos they won't be staying. Vardy was a rare exception in the modern game.

 

Some will no doubt argue that we need to be successful to keep our best players, but even when we won the EPL Kante was off and Mahrez made it clear he wanted to be.

 

Now a similar thing is happening with Palace and you look at a relatively large, wealthy club like Newcastle too with Isak.

 

They should just clear off to their European Super League, with a caveat. They can't sign players from any country's remaining domestic leagues, only players they produce themselves and sign off each other.

 

But that's a pipe dream

 

Couldn't agree with this more the premier league is no longer competitive and is ruled by 6/7 clubs. I honestly wish the big six would just clear off 

[Gamble92]

Without being too downbeat, you could say what's the point in anything when the sun's just going to expand and burn the earth one day anyway 

[dayday]

21 minutes ago, Tuna said:

It wasn't intended to be a list of every signing that is considered good/decent.

 

I'm sure you can suggest other players yourself.

 

Ndidi, for example, was not listed.

My point was with the thread starter, if we had got the recruitment right we would be in a very good place now , it’s not like we’ve never spent the money , I would love to see our net spend ins and outs since we won the title, I guess pretty grim reading 

 

You only have to look at the current team to see how badly we got it wrong 

[worthosoriginals]

32 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Without being too downbeat, you could say what's the point in anything when the sun's just going to expand and burn the earth one day anyway 

We need rain,

not another heatwave.

[when_you're_smiling]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

Amartey and Ward were very much playing.  Far too much in my opinion.  I'm still in therapy about it.  Praet and Vestergaard less so, but they are still examples of failed signings in that squad.

 

 

Yeah to be fair looking at the stats, I thought Iversen and Amartey had replaced them in the starting line up much earlier in the season than they did. 

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Gamble92 said:

Without being too downbeat, you could say what's the point in anything when the sun's just going to expand and burn the earth one day anyway 

Such talk should be forbidden.  I've heard enough about McAteer today too, that should also not be allowed.

 

So that's Kasey and the sunshine banned.

 

 

 

 

sorry.