Deathside Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Maybe not! But it can't just do nothing. What prevoked the Hezbollah attacks in the first place?
Thracian Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 ........but still the question hasn't been answered. Do they have a right to protect it's citizens and if not why not? It's simple really when Hezbollah cease their attacks then Israel will not target the Hezbollah launch pads situated amongst the Lebanese population. I know Israel have done it in the past but it is usually, not always might I add, with provocation! Ultra doesn't do answers to questions like that. Or questions about Muslims' freedom of choice. At least not that I've seen yet.
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Maybe not! But it can't just do nothing. Stop engaging in acts of petty vengence. Stop treating Arabs like second class citizens. Retreat to the pre-67 borders Engage the Governments around them in peaceful dialogue If it did the above and Hezbollah attacked them then I would support the RAF carpet bombing large swathes of Southern Lebanon. Israel needs to become a functioning World Citizen and renounce violence (akin to South Africa and apartheid) before I could agree to supporting it.
Head Honcho Posted 1 August 2006 Author Posted 1 August 2006 What prevoked the Hezbollah attacks in the first place? I'm not sure Hezbollah needs provocation When Iran say's jump, Hezbollah say's how high!
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 What prevoked the Hezbollah attacks in the first place? Eh... they're arseholes? They hate Jews? Seriously, what claim do they have - they're barely even linked to Lebanon itself!
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 I'm not sure Hezbollah needs provocation When Iran say's jump, Hezbollah say's how high! I'm not sure Israel needs provocation When America say's jump, Israel say's how high!
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Eh... they're arseholes? They hate Jews? Seriously, what claim do they have - they're barely even linked to Lebanon itself! Eh... they're arseholes? They hate Arabs? Seriously, what claim do they have - they're barely even linked to Lebanon itself!
Thracian Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 You miss the point. Does the current Israeli action really protect it's citizens. I think not. Demonstrably not, or only temporarily. But how can you have dialogue with such people when even (presumed) moderates like Ultra see only one side, only one guilty party when we all know the Muslim agenda as so graphically pointed out by the Hezbollah backing leader of Iran.
Deathside Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Eh... they're arseholes? They hate Jews? Seriously, what claim do they have - they're barely even linked to Lebanon itself! Although I've kept clear of this thread and my general posting style is of a flipant nature: This is asked as a serious question - The Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israel only started recently - What prompted this??
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Stop engaging in acts of petty vengence. Stop treating Arabs like second class citizens. Retreat to the pre-67 borders Engage the Governments around them in peaceful dialogue If it did the above and Hezbollah attacked them then I would support the RAF carpet bombing large swathes of Southern Lebanon. Israel needs to become a functioning World Citizen and renounce violence (akin to South Africa and apartheid) before I could agree to supporting it. So you support Palestine then? And Palestinian acts of petty vengeance / not recognising Israel / belligerent government policy? Or are you a diplomat and want to see a peaceful two state solution? For this to happen both states must engage in the above - given Israel should retreat to its pre-67 borders after Hamas has toned down its policy.
Dr The Singh Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Stop engaging in acts of petty vengence. Stop treating Arabs like second class citizens. Retreat to the pre-67 borders Engage the Governments around them in peaceful dialogue If it did the above and Hezbollah attacked them then I would support the RAF carpet bombing large swathes of Southern Lebanon. Israel needs to become a functioning World Citizen and renounce violence (akin to South Africa and apartheid) before I could agree to supporting it. Peace can only be done on a mutaul basis, if Israel did what you wanted, they would be back to square one ie bombing lebanon, and for what....your approval!!! To solve a problem you need to know the cause.....the cause is the existance of Israel, as soon as it was created it was attacked, and the circle of violence has continued. Now, Israel\Israeli's are not going to vanish, so firstly, the arabs\middle east must recognise Israel, this will help resolve mutual untrust, from here constructive dialogue towards peace may happen, only if both sides want peace!!!
Head Honcho Posted 1 August 2006 Author Posted 1 August 2006 What prevoked the Hezbollah attacks in the first place? Hezbollah kidnapped a couple of Israeli soldiers and Israel retaliated! Do you know what I almost forgot about the kidnapped soldiers
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 So you support Palestine then? And Palestinian acts of petty vengeance / not recognising Israel / belligerent government policy? Or are you a diplomat and want to see a peaceful two state solution? For this to happen both states must engage in the above - given Israel should retreat to its pre-67 borders after Hamas has toned down its policy. So when Indonesia attack Australia, given the above, you will roll over and welcome them in with open arms?
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Hezbollah kidnapped a couple of Israeli soldiers and Israel retaliated! Do you know what I almost forgot about the kidnapped soldiers Israel had kidnapped two Palestinians a few days before. Their fate is still unknown.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Although I've kept clear of this thread and my general posting style is of a flipant nature: This is asked as a serious question - The Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israel only started recently - What prompted this?? They consider Israelis as infidels, they see the existence of Israel on 'Muslim land' to be blasphemy. Israeli attacks on Muslim extremists are not taken well either - remember that to Hezbollah they have a duty to avenge what they see as attack on their own kind, regardless of what the individuals have done to warrant such a harsh response. As soon as they have the military means to launch assaults on Israel they take them. This is not some kind of inspirational freedom fighting group, it's a group that mostly carries out terrorist action without moral cause. Why does Hamas launch rocket attacks at Israel? Cos Israel has some of their land. I'd like to say that a retreat would solve the problem but unfortunately the current Hamas platform doesn't even make room for any of Israel to exist in a two state solution - this should be addressed first.
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Peace can only be done on a mutaul basis, if Israel did what you wanted, they would be back to square one ie bombing lebanon, and for what....your approval!!! To solve a problem you need to know the cause.....the cause is the existance of Israel, as soon as it was created it was attacked, and the circle of violence has continued. Now, Israel\Israeli's are not going to vanish, so firstly, the arabs\middle east must recognise Israel, this will help resolve mutual untrust, from here constructive dialogue towards peace may happen, only if both sides want peace!!! I broadly agree with that but I cannot see that bombing people will promote people's recognition of Israel.
Dr The Singh Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 I broadly agree with that but I cannot see that bombing people will promote people's recognition of Israel. Nor will aggressive acts against Israel get there land back or free prisoners!!!!
Ultra Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Don't you think that Israel has a right to protect it's citizens from Hezbollah attacks and if not why? Forget the scale of the attacks or the number of civillian casualties, do they have a right to protect it's citizens from Hezbollah rockets? There are ways and there are means. We never razed Dublin to the ground every time the IRA bombed one of our cities, did we?
Head Honcho Posted 1 August 2006 Author Posted 1 August 2006 There are ways and there are means. We never razed Dublin to the ground every time the IRA bombed one of our cities, did we? If the launch pads for the attacks were from Dublin and the Irish government did nothing to stop them I have no doubt that we would have done. I see you still haven't answered the question
Steven Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 There are ways and there are means. We never razed Dublin to the ground every time the IRA bombed one of our cities, did we? Exactly. To take the logic on board of the Israeli apologists on this board then that is what we should have done.
Ultra Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Peace can only be done on a mutaul basis, if Israel did what you wanted, they would be back to square one ie bombing lebanon, and for what....your approval!!! To solve a problem you need to know the cause.....the cause is the existance of Israel, as soon as it was created it was attacked, and the circle of violence has continued. Now, Israel\Israeli's are not going to vanish, so firstly, the arabs\middle east must recognise Israel, this will help resolve mutual untrust, from here constructive dialogue towards peace may happen, only if both sides want peace!!! The PLO recognised Israel, after many years of pressure to do so. How did Israel respond? By holding the president of the PLO for years under house arrest, only releasing him when he was on the verge of death. One has to wonder whether they've EVER really wanted peace.
Dr The Singh Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 There are ways and there are means. We never razed Dublin to the ground every time the IRA bombed one of our cities, did we? Slightly different scenario here but you are right to a degree. Israel is surrounded by enemies, and per land mass, and population it is alot smaller....since it's existance it's neighbours have more then once tried to conquer it and it's existance is not recognised. The enemy would if it had the chance nuke it, and kill every woman, child and soul in Israel. If you compare that to NI, which doesn't have the same threat from Britain or vice versa!!!
Ultra Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 If the launch pads for the attacks were from Dublin and the Irish government did nothing to stop them I have no doubt that we would have done. I see you still haven't answered the question They should have engaged in diplomacy with the Lebanese, under the auspices of the UN if need be. But diplomacy is not a word in their vocabulary..
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 So when Indonesia attack Australia, given the above, you will roll over and welcome them in with open arms? Perfect example, actually. Closer to home, Jemaah Islamiaah hate westerners. We didn't do squat to them and they bombed a western bar for no greater a reason than they see us as infidels. But say if we invaded Indonesia for strategic purposes - then it could be said they have a moral claim to attack our soldiers and infrastructure in Indonesia. Needless to say, we would want assurances of security before withdrawing, so some kind of agreement could follow. Since that invasion hasn't happened of course, if an attack occured on home soil and the Indonesian government wasn't doing anything to curb the terrorist action, then I say we follow Israel's lead and go in and kick the crap out of JI.
Ultra Posted 1 August 2006 Posted 1 August 2006 Slightly different scenario here but you are right to a degree. Israel is surrounded by enemies, and per land mass, and population it is alot smaller....since it's existance it's neighbours have more then once tried to conquer it and it's existance is not recognised. The enemy would if it had the chance nuke it, and kill every woman, child and soul in Israel. If you compare that to NI, which doesn't have the same threat from Britain or vice versa!!! In terms of its armed forces, Israel is a lot bigger than its neighbours. Its US sugar daddy sees to that.
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