Head Honcho Posted 13 July 2006 Posted 13 July 2006 .......or are they justified in bombing The Lebanon? Personally I don't think they are doing anything different to what the allied forces are doing in Iraq and it's about bloody time. These countries are allowing terrorists to bomb Israel from within their borders and they deserve everything they get!
act smiley Posted 13 July 2006 Posted 13 July 2006 Wait... that means that we need to bomb Luton because of the London Underground bombings, doesn't it?
Ultra Posted 13 July 2006 Posted 13 July 2006 Wait... that means that we need to bomb Luton because of the London Underground bombings, doesn't it? or Leeds! Israel have been indulged for far too long. If they had been kept in order for the last 40 years, we would have a lot less grief in the Middle East!
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 The thing that shits me is that Israel is willing to talk, but these Hezbollah and Hamas groups won't settle for anything less than destroying Israel. Closer to home, the IRA knew when it was time to talk, even with Paisley's unwillingness to. It's good to see attempts, if not always successful, to reach agreement through using tongues rather than missiles.
macbeth Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 i think if we were in the same situation as the isrealis we would do the same.....its easy to judge from a safe distance
Guest Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 The thing that shits me is that Israel is willing to talk Only on their own terms, and with the outcome that they want. They have no desire to negotiate a peaceful settlement.
macbeth Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Only on their own terms, and with the outcome that they want. They have no desire to negotiate a peaceful settlement. and can't that be said of the holy war terrorists
Steven Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Only on their own terms, and with the outcome that they want. They have no desire to negotiate a peaceful settlement. Exactly. Remember also one of the premises for invading Iraq was the fact they ignored UN resolutions. Here are a list of resolutions Israel has ignored. Pertinent United Nations Security Council Resolutions Since 1967 As They Relate to Israel No. Date Substance / Summary of Content 233 6 June 1967 Calls for an immediate cease-fire and cessation of all military activities. 234 7 June 1967 Demands a cease-fire. 237 14 June 1967 Calls upon the Government of Israel to ensure the safety, welfare and security of the inhabitants, facilitate the return of those inhabitants who have fled the areas since the outbreak of the hostilities and recommends the scrupulous respect of the humanitarian principles contained in the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949. 242 22 Nov 1967 Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include: withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict; and termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force. 248 24 Mar 1968 Deplores the loss of life and heavy damage to property. Condemns the military action launched by Israel in flagrant violation of the U.N. Charter and the cease-fire resolution. Calls upon Israel to desist from acts or activities in contravention of resolution 237 (1967). (This was an attack against Karameh, Jordan.) 250 27 Apr 1968 Calls upon Israel to refrain from holding the military parade in Jerusalem which is contemplated for 2 May 1968. 251 2 May 1968 Deeply deplores the holding by Israel of the military parade in Jerusalem on 2 May 1968 in disregard of the unanimous decision adopted by the Council on 27 April 1968. 252 21 May 1968 Deplores the failure of Israel to comply with General Assembly resolutions 2253 (ES-V) and 2254 (ES-V) of 4 and 14 July 1967. Considers that all legislative and administrative measures taken by Israel, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon, which tend to change the legal status of Jerusalem, are invalid and cannot change the status. Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind all such measures taken and to desist from further actions changing the status of Jerusalem. 259 27 Sept 1968 Deplores the delay in implementation of resolution 237 (1967) because of the conditions still being set by Israel for receiving a Special Representative of the Secretary-General. Requests the Secretary-General to urgently dispatch a Special Representative to the Arab territories under military occupation by Israel following the hostilities of 5 June 1967 and to report on the implementation of resolution 237 (1967). 267 3 Jul 1969 Reaffirms the established principle that the acquisition of territory by military conquest is inadmissible. Deplores the failure of Israel to show any regard for the resolutions of the General Assembly and the Security Council. Censures in the strongest terms all measures taken to change the status of the city of Jerusalem. Urgently calls once more on Israel to rescind all measures taken by it to change the status of Jerusalem and in the future to refrain from all actions likely to have such an effect 271 15 Sep 1969 Grieved at the extensive damage caused by arson to the Holy Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem on 21 August 1969 under the military occupation of Israel; calls upon Israel to scrupulously observe the provisions of the Geneva Conventions and international law governing military occupation. 298 25 Sep 1971 Deplores the failure of Israel to respect previous U.N. resolutions concerning measures and actions by Israel purporting to affect the status of the city of Jerusalem. Confirms that all legislative and administrative actions taken by Israel … are totally invalid and cannot change that status. Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind all such measures…. 338 22 Oct 1973 Calls for an immediate cease-fire and termination of all military activity. Calls upon the parties concerned to start immediately after the cease-fire the implementation of Security Council resolution 242 (1967) in all of its parts.... 339 23 Oct 1973 Refers to resolution 338 (1973); confirms its decision on immediate cessation of all military actions; and requests the Secretary-General to take measures for immediate dispatch of U.N. observers to supervise observance of the cease-fire. 381 30 Nov 1975 Expresses concern over the continued state of tension in the area. Decides to reconvene on 12 January 1976 to continue the debate on the Middle East problem including the Palestinian question, taking into account all relevant U.N. resolutions. 425 19 Mar 978 Calls for the strict respect for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon. Calls upon Israel immediately to cease its military action against Lebanese territorial integrity and withdraw forthwith its forces from all Lebanese territory. Decides to establish immediately under its authority a United Nations Interim Force in Southern Lebanon (UNIFIL). 446 22 Mar 1979 Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East. Calls once more upon Israel, as the occupying power, to abide scrupulously by the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, to rescind its previous measures and to desist from taking any action which would result in changing the legal status and geographical nature and materially affecting the demographic composition of the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, and in particular, not to transfer parts of its own civilian population into the occupied Arab territories. 452 20 Jul 1979 Calls upon the government and people of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem. 465 1 Mar 1980 Determines that all measures taken by Israel to change the physical character, composition, institutional structure or status of the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, or any part thereof, have no legal validity and that Israel's policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in those territories constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East. Strongly deplores the continuation and persistence of Israel in pursuing those policies and practices. Calls upon the government and people of Israel to rescind those measures, to dismantle the existing settlements and in particular to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem. Calls upon all States not to provide Israel with any assistance to be used specifically in connection with settlements in the occupied territories; and requests the Commission to continue examining the situation relating to settlements, to investigate the reported serious depletion of natural resources, particularly water, with a view to ensuring protection of those important natural resources of the territories under occupation. 468 8 May 1980 Recalling the Geneva Convention of 1949 and expressing deep concern at the expulsion by the Israeli military occupation authorities of the Mayors of Hebron and Halhoul and of the Sharia Judge of Hebron, calls upon Israel as occupying Power to rescind these illegal measures and to facilitate the immediate return of the expelled Palestinian leaders. 469 20 May 1980 Strongly deplores the failure of Israel to implement resolution 468 (1968). Calls again upon the Government of Israel, as occupying Power, to rescind the illegal measures taken by the Israeli military occupation authorities in expelling the Mayors of Hebron and Halhoul and the Sharia Judge of Hebron. 471 5 June 1980 Expresses deep concern that the Jewish settlers in the occupied Arab territories are allowed to carry arms thus enabling them to perpetrate crimes against the civilian population. Calls for the immediate apprehension and prosecution of the perpetrators of these crimes and condemns the assassination attempts on the lives of the Mayors of Nablus, Ramallah and Al-Bireh. Expresses deep concern that Israel, as occupying Power, has failed to provide adequate protection to the civilian population in the occupied territories in conformity with the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Calls again upon the Government of Israel to respect and comply with the provisions of the Convention as well as with the resolutions of the Council, calls once again upon all States not to provide Israel with any assistance to be used specifically in connection with settlements in the occupied territories. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem. 476 30 June 1980 Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem. Strongly deplores the continued refusal of Israel, the occupying Power, to comply with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly. Reiterates that all measures taken by Israel which have altered the geographic, demographic and historical character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem are null and void and must be rescinded in compliance with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council. Reaffirms that all such measures and actions constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Reaffirms its determination in the event of non-compliance by Israel to examine practical ways and means in accordance with relevant provisions of the U.N. Charter to secure full implementation of this resolution. 478 20 Aug 1980 Censures in the strongest terms the enactment by Israel of the "basic law" on Jerusalem and the refusal to comply with relevant Security Council resolutions. Affirms that the enactment of the "basic law" by Israel constitutes a violation of international law and does not affect the continued application of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 12 August 1949 in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since June 1967, including Jerusalem. Determines that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which have altered or purport to alter the character and the status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, and in particular, the recent "basic law" on Jerusalem, are null and void and must be rescinded forthwith. Decides not to recognize the "basic law" and such other actions by Israel that, as a result of this law, seek to alter the character and status of Jerusalem. Calls upon all members of the United Nations (a) to accept this decision, (b) and upon those States that have established diplomatic Missions in Jerusalem to withdraw such Missions from the Holy City. 484 19 Dec 1980 Expressing grave concern at the expulsion by Israel of the Mayor of Hebron and the Mayor of Halhoul, calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to adhere to the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Declares it imperative that they be enabled to return to their homes and resume their responsibilities. 508 5 June 1982 Calls upon the parties to the conflict to cease immediately and simultaneously all military activities within Lebanon and across the Lebanese-Israeli border. Requests all Member States which are in a position to do so to bring their influence to bear upon those concerned so that the cessation of hostilities declared by Security Council resolution 490 (1981) can be respected. (Beginning of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.) 509 6 June 1982 Demands that Israel withdraw all its military forces forthwith and unconditionally to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon and demands that all parties observe strictly the terms of paragraph 1 of resolution 508 (1982). 512 19 June 1982 Expressing deep concern at the suffering of the Lebanese and Palestinian civilian populations, calls upon all the parties to the conflict to respect the rights of the civilian populations, to refrain from all acts of violence against those populations and to take all appropriate measures to alleviate the suffering caused by the conflict. 513 4 Jul 1982 Expressing alarm at the continued sufferings of the Lebanese and Palestinian civilian populations in southern Lebanon and in west Beirut, calls for respect for the rights of the civilian populations without any discrimination and repudiates all acts of violence against those populations. Calls further for the restoration of the normal supply of vital facilities such as water, electricity, food and medical provisions, particularly in Beirut. 515 29 Jul 1982 Demands that the government of Israel lift immediately the blockade of the city of Beirut in order to permit the dispatch of supplies to meet the urgent needs of the civilian population. 516 1 Aug 1982 Confirms its previous resolutions and authorizes the Secretary-General to deploy immediately, on the request of the Government of Lebanon, U.N. observers to monitor the situation in and around Beirut. 517 4 Aug 1982 Confirms once again its demand for an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon. Censures Israel for its failure to comply with the above resolutions. Takes note of the decision of the Palestine Liberation Organization to move the Palestinian armed forces from Beirut and authorizes the Secretary-General to increase the number of U.N. observers in and around Beirut. 518 12 Aug 1982 Demands that Israel and all parties to the conflict observe strictly the terms of Security Council resolutions relevant to the immediate cessation of all military activities within Lebanon and, particularly, in and around Beirut. Demands the immediate lifting of all restrictions on the city of Beirut 520 17 Sep 1982 Condemns the recent Israeli incursions into Beirut in violation of the cease-fire agreements and of Security Council resolutions. Demands an immediate return to the positions occupied by Israel before 15 September 1982, as a first step towards the full implementation of Security Council resolutions. 521 19 Sep 1982 Condemns the criminal massacre of Palestinian civilians in Beirut; reaffirms its resolutions 512 (1982) and 513 (1982), which call for respect for the rights of the civilian populations without any discrimination, and repudiates all acts of violence against those populations. Requests the Secretary-General, as a matter of urgency, to initiate appropriate consultations and, in particular, consultations with the Government of Lebanon on additional steps which the Security Council might take, including the possible deployment of United Nations forces, to assist that government in ensuring full protection for the civilian populations in and around Beirut. (Massacre of Sabra and Shattilla refugee camps while eastern Beirut was under Israeli military occupation.) 573 4 Oct 1985 Condemns vigorously the act of armed aggression perpetrated by Israel against Tunisian territory in flagrant violation of the U.N. Charter, international law and norms of conduct; and demands that Israel refrain from perpetrating such acts of aggression or from threatening to do so. (Israeli raid against PLO Headquarters in Hammam Al-Shut) 592 8 Dec 1986 Strongly deplores the opening of fire by the Israeli army resulting in the death and the wounding of defenseless students at Bir Zeit University. Calls upon Israel to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949. Calls upon Israel to release any person or persons detained as a result of the recent events at Bir Zeit University. 605 22 Dec 1987 Strongly deplores those policies and practices of Israel, the occupying Power, which violate the human rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories, particularly the opening of fire by the Israeli army, resulting in the killing and wounding of defenseless Palestinian civilians. Calls once again upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Fourth Geneva Convention. 607 5 Jan 1988 Calls upon Israel to refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilians from the occupied territories; and strongly requests it to abide by its obligations arising from the Fourth Geneva Convention. 608 14 Jan 1988 Reaffirming resolution 607 (1988) of 5 January 1988, deeply regrets that Israel, the occupying Power, in defiance of U.N. resolutions, has deported Palestinian civilians. Calls upon Israel to rescind the orders and to desist from forthwith deporting any other Palestinian civilians from the occupied territories. 611 25 Apr 1988 Having noted with concern that the aggression perpetrated on 16 April 1988 in the locality of Sidi Bou Said (Tunisia) has caused loss of human life, particularly the assassination of Mr. Khalil Al-Wazir, condemns vigorously the aggression perpetrated against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Tunisia in flagrant violation of the U.N. Charter; and urges Member States to take measures to prevent such acts against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all States. (Al-Wazir (Abu-Jihad) was the Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Palestine Liberation Organization.) 636 6 Jul 1989 Deeply regrets the continuing deportation by Israel, the occupying Power, of Palestinian civilians. Calls upon Israel to ensure the safe and immediate return to the occupied Palestinian territories of those deported and to desist forthwith from deporting any other Palestinian civilians. Reaffirms that the Fourth Geneva Convention is applicable to the Palestinian territories, occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and to the other occupied Arab territories. 641 30 Aug 1989 Deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinian civilians. Calls upon Israel to ensure the safe and immediate return to the occupied Palestinian territories of those deported and to desist forthwith from deporting any other Palestinian civilians. Reaffirms that the Fourth Geneva Convention is applicable to the Palestinian territories, occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and to the other occupied Arab territories. 672 12 Oct 1990 Reaffirming that a just and lasting solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict must be based on its resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973) through an active negotiating process which takes into account the right to security for all States in the region, including Israel, as well as the legitimate political rights of the Palestinian people. Expresses alarm at the violence which took place on 8 October at Al-Haram Al-Sharif and other Holy Places of Jerusalem, resulting in over twenty Palestinian deaths and the injury of more than one hundred and fifty people, including Palestinian civilians and innocent worshippers. Condemns especially the acts of violence committed by the Israeli security forces, resulting in injuries and loss of human life. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention. 673 24 Oct 1990 Deplores the refusal of the Israeli Government to receive the mission of the Secretary-General to the region in violation of resolution 672 (1990). 681 20 Dec 1990 Expresses its grave concern over the rejection by Israel of its resolutions 672 (1990) and 673 (1990). Deplores the decision by the Government of Israel, the occupying Power, to resume the deportation of Palestinian civilians in the occupied territories. Urges the Government of Israel to accept the de jure applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to all the territories occupied by Israel since 1967 694 24 May 1991 Declares that the action of the Israeli authorities of deporting four Palestinians on 18 May is in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which is applicable to all the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem. Deplores this action and reiterates that Israel refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported. 726 6 Jan 1992 Strongly condemns the decision of Israel, the occupying Power, to resume deportation of Palestinian civilians. Reaffirms the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 to all the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem. Requests Israel to ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported. 799 18 Dec 1992 Strongly condemns the action taken by Israel, the occupying Power, to deport hundreds of Palestinian civilians (on 17 December 1992). Expresses its firm opposition to any such deportations by Israel. Reaffirms the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to all the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem. Demands that Israel ensure the safe and immediate return to the occupied territories of all those deported. 904 18 Mar 1994 Strongly condemns the massacre in Hebron committed against Palestinian worshippers in Al-Ibrahimi Mosque, on 25 February 1994, during the holy month of Ramadan, and its aftermath which took the lives of more than 50 Palestinian civilians and injured several hundred others. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to continue to take and implement measures, including, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by Israeli settlers. Calls for measures to be taken to guarantee the safety and protection of the Palestinian civilians throughout the occupied territory, including, inter alia, a temporary international or foreign presence, which was provided for in the Declaration of Principles, within the context of the ongoing peace process. 1073 28 Sep 1996 Expresses its deep concern about the tragic events in Jerusalem and the areas of Nablus, Ramallah, Bethlehem and the Gaza Strip, which resulted in a high number of deaths and injuries among the Palestinian civilians. Calls for the immediate cessation and reversal of all acts which have resulted in the aggravation of the situation and which have negative implications for the Middle East peace process. Calls for the safety and protection of Palestinian civilians to be ensured. Calls for the immediate resumption of negotiations within the Middle East peace process on its agreed basis and the timely implementation of the agreements reached. (The draft resolution was issued officially as a presidential text, which normally indicates unanimity prior to the vote.) 1322 7 Oct 2000 Reaffirms that a just and lasting solution to the Arab and Israeli conflict must be based on its resolutions 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 and 338 (1973) of 22 October 1973, through an active negotiating process. Deplores the provocation carried out at Al-Haram Al-Sharif in Jerusalem on 28 September 2000, and the subsequent violence there and at other Holy Places, as well as in other areas throughout the territories occupied by Israel since 1968, resulting in over 80 Palestinian deaths and many other casualties. Condemns acts of violence, especially the excessive use of force against Palestinians, resulting in injury and loss of human life. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and its responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva. Calls for the immediate cessation of violence, and for all necessary steps to be taken to ensure that violence ceases, that new provocative actions are avoided, and that the situation returns to normality. Stresses the importance of establishing a mechanism for a speedy and objective inquiry into the tragic events of the last few days with the aim of preventing their repetition.
hairy Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Good find Steven. It just shows how the UN is unable to enforce its resolutions.
Steven Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 I would add that of course Israel has the right to defend itself but bombing Beiruit airport is a disproportionate response to the current situation. The Old Testament, the Jewish bit, says "an eye for an eye" and not a whole body for an eye. <_< <_<
macbeth Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 I would add that of course Israel has the right to defend itself but bombing Beiruit airport is a disproportionate response to the current situation. The Old Testament, the Jewish bit, says "an eye for an eye" and not a whole body for an eye. <_< <_< how do we know from the comfort of our relatively safe homes what is either proportionate or disproportionate ; we don't know what mossad or the isreali intelligence knows.........hiroshima dresden etc could be described as disproportionate from a safe distance of either miles or time from the event
Dr The Singh Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 I would add that of course Israel has the right to defend itself but bombing Beiruit airport is a disproportionate response to the current situation. The Old Testament, the Jewish bit, says "an eye for an eye" and not a whole body for an eye. <_< <_< They all are bad as each other, Hamas and Hizbollah, should know better.......they believe the world is going soft on them and the worlds attention is on Iraq so they will give the dirty kidnapping tricks another try. Isreal being the super of the region, just flexes it's muscles at will. I feel sorry for the civilians that get entangled with this mess!!!
Head Honcho Posted 14 July 2006 Author Posted 14 July 2006 Only on their own terms, and with the outcome that they want. They have no desire to negotiate a peaceful settlement. That used to be true in the past but in recent time's the Israeli people have demanded that their leaders find a peaceful solution to the trouble's in the area. Since Israel's withdrawal from The Lebanon in 2000 Ehud Barak and Ariel Sharon have given in to many demands set by the Palestinians the only sticking point seems to be the Israeli's insistance of The West Bank Wall.
Dr The Singh Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 That used to be true in the past but in recent time's the Israeli people have demanded that their leaders find a peaceful solution to the trouble's in the area. Since Israel's withdrawal from The Lebanon in 2000 Ehud Barak and Ariel Sharon have given in to many demands set by the Palestinians the only sticking point seems to be the Israeli's insistance of The West Bank Wall. It would help if Palestine and some neighbouring nations recognise as a independant state\country!!!! Israel was bold enough to give the Gaza strip to the Palestinians, this should have been a platform for peace, instead Hamas etc refuses to accept Israel and continues it's terrorist activities. Nations such as Palestine, Lebonon and Syria need to control such groups!!!
Steven Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 how do we know from the comfort of our relatively safe homes what is either proportionate or disproportionate ; we don't know what mossad or the isreali intelligence knows.........hiroshima dresden etc could be described as disproportionate from a safe distance of either miles or time from the event Are you a member of the Israeli Government.
macbeth Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Are you a member of the Israeli Government. sorry don't follow the logic
Head Honcho Posted 14 July 2006 Author Posted 14 July 2006 It would help if Palestine and some neighbouring nations recognise as a independant state\country!!!! Israel was bold enough to give the Gaza strip to the Palestinians, this should have been a platform for peace, instead Hamas etc refuses to accept Israel and continues it's terrorist activities. Nations such as Palestine, Lebonon and Syria need to control such groups Which is why Israel feels justified in attacking these countries! I'm reluctant to say that "Israel was bold enough to give the Gaza strip to Palestine" as before 1948 it never belonged to them anyway and should never have been given to them as it was 90% Arab owned at the time. If the handover of the British Mandate of Palestine was done fairly in the first place I doubt there'd be half the trouble there is over there now.
breadandcheese Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Steven, The list of UN resolutions you have put forward, showing Israel's violations is indeed condemning, until the reality is understood. If you look at the tit for tat history throughout the last 60 years in the Middle East, you would expect a similar number of resolutions condeming the tactics of terrorists groups against Israel and those countries aiding and abetting such terrorists groups. This has not been the case. For example, the recent provocation by Hezbollah would, one expect warrant a similar condemnation in the UN. Look at the military exercution of the operation. The militant group, funded and trained by Syria and Iran studied the weakpoints in the Israeli border over a number of years, climbed over this border, laid an ambush trap, killed 5 soldiers out on border patrol, took hostage 2 soldiers, climbed back over the border. In the process of this, and to create a diversion from the attack, this group also fired rockets randomly at civilians in towns and cities. No resolutions condemning this or calling on Iran and Syria to exercise restraint on the part of Hezbollah. Israel throughout the last 60 years has seen this uneven approach the UN takes (not difficult when there is many Arab and Muslim countries voting against one Jewish country) and realised that to follow the UN approach would actually result in the deaths of its citizens. It almost seems that it doesn't matter if Israel does pull out of Gaza or places like that. It is no wonder then that Israel, has now chosen to ignore the UN and decide to look after its self, rather than relying on the international community, which would surely have led to more deaths of its citizens. Yes, it does come accross almost as an arrogance, but that is the last of the concerns of the Israeli leaders. All I am saying is that it's a tense situation, which we shouldn't just look at from our comfortable area of the UK. We have never been in a position where groups and countries surrounding us want to wipe us off the face off the earth, simply for the fact that we are alive. Look at it through these eyes and you can start to understand the Israeli position, which can then be used to start negotiations for peace talks, with the preoccupation for security, and hopefully lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state and peace throughout the Middle East.
Dr The Singh Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Which is why Israel feels justified in attacking these countries! I'm reluctant to say that "Israel was bold enough to give the Gaza strip to Palestine" as before 1948 it never belonged to them anyway and should never have been given to them as it was 90% Arab owned at the time. If the handover of the British Mandate of Palestine was done fairly in the first place I doubt there'd be half the trouble there is over there now. Agreed!! It may never been Israeli land but to give it back must have been a difficult moment, one which alot of Israeli's saw as defeat and the likes of that famous US preacher (I forgot his name) said it was an act against god which Israel will be punished!!
macbeth Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Which is why Israel feels justified in attacking these countries! I'm reluctant to say that "Israel was bold enough to give the Gaza strip to Palestine" as before 1948 it never belonged to them anyway and should never have been given to them as it was 90% Arab owned at the time. If the handover of the British Mandate of Palestine was done fairly in the first place I doubt there'd be half the trouble there is over there now. aren't we being conditioned to believe that all trouble spots are directly related to what britain/u.s./france et al did generations ago....as though there would be total harmony throughout the world had it not been for us
breadandcheese Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 Which is why Israel feels justified in attacking these countries! I'm reluctant to say that "Israel was bold enough to give the Gaza strip to Palestine" as before 1948 it never belonged to them anyway and should never have been given to them as it was 90% Arab owned at the time. If the handover of the British Mandate of Palestine was done fairly in the first place I doubt there'd be half the trouble there is over there now. Before 1948, Gaza was under the mandate of us (Britain) Between 1948-1967, Gaza was owned by Egypt and the West Bank a part of Jordan
Dr The Singh Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 aren't we being conditioned to believe that all trouble spots are directly related to what britain/u.s./france et al did generations ago....as though there would be total harmony throughout the world had it not been for us India\Pakistan is good example of British mismanagement, but to say that the Brits are the whole cause is silly, people of those nations should be sensible enought o resolve there differences!!!!
macbeth Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 India\Pakistan is good example of British mismanagement, but to say that the Brits are the whole cause is silly, people of those nations should be sensible enought o resolve there differences!!!! thats what i mean ; we can go back far enough and blame the romans/vikings /normans etc for legacies of division....
davieG Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 thats what i mean ; we can go back far enough and blame the romans/vikings /normans etc for legacies of division.... It's all the Romans fault, if they hadn't conquered Britain, well who knows but it would have been different and probably Materazzi wouldn't have said those things to ZZ.
Dr The Singh Posted 14 July 2006 Posted 14 July 2006 It's all the Romans fault, if they hadn't conquered Britain, well who knows but it would have been different and probably Materazzi wouldn't have said those things to ZZ. Yeah, I would have been living in the Punjab, and supporting Jalandhar FC and not City!!!
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