shez Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 true; its a tragic situation and again its innocents that are suffering for the grand ideals of the few zealots which includes BUSH and hizbollah!
macbeth Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 which includes BUSH and hizbollah! true but bush is just one man in a long line of western leaders; hizbollah have been commitng attrocities much longer and probably will long after he has gone; who will be the next one to blame
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 true but bush is just one man in a long line of western leaders; hizbollah have been commitng attrocities much longer and probably will long after he has gone; who will be the next one to blame Hopefully not, if Israel do the job properly!
Steven Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Hopefully not, if Israel do the job properly! Great attitude, precisely the sort of attitude that has led us to where we are.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Great attitude, precisely the sort of attitude that has led us to where we are. Hardly, Hezbollah have no legitimate claim to war. They're not some sort of inspirational freedom fighting group, they're a bunch of rag tag extremists who would like nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map. Hamas on the other hand do have a legitimate claim to war.
Ultra Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Hardly, Hezbollah have no legitimate claim to war. They're not some sort of inspirational freedom fighting group, they're a bunch of rag tag extremists who would like nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map. Hamas on the other hand do have a legitimate claim to war. Hezbollah could argue they are doing the job that the Lebanese armed forces should be doing (ie protecting Lebanese citizens). Israel has shown no regard for human life whatsoever, in Palestine or Lebanon. But it could argue that it's doing no different to what the Uk and US have done in Iraq.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 But it could argue that it's doing no different to what the Uk and US have done in Iraq. It's more comparable with what the US did in Afghanistan... citizens were killed in the war there as well. I think Israel is playing by the rules in southern Lebanon, hence the lack of international backlash.
shez Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 It's more comparable with what the US did in Afghanistan... citizens were killed in the war there as well. I think Israel is playing by the rules in southern Lebanon, hence the lack of international backlash. the reason for the lack of international backlash is due to the fact america cant be bothered because its mostly MUSLIM lives being lost and not american!
shez Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 and of course bush doesnt value a muslim life......it takes 1000s of muslims to die and only one american and yet the american life is worth so much more
shez Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Dont get me wrong i dont agree with what Hizbollah are doing one bit...but it saddens me that the world can just sit and watch as these israeli massacre continues!
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Dont get me wrong i dont agree with what Hizbollah are doing one bit...but it saddens me that the world can just sit and watch as these israeli massacre continues! Massacres occur on both sides. Each case should be looked at individually, but I think everyone is guilty of taking sides to some extent. I'm just dirty on Hezbollah so I'm not losing any sleep over them, except for that it's likely to stir other anti-Israeli extremists to upscale their operations, making a long lasting truce that much harder to achieve!
Thracian Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Hezbollah could argue they are doing the job that the Lebanese armed forces should be doing (ie protecting Lebanese citizens). Israel has shown no regard for human life whatsoever, in Palestine or Lebanon. But it could argue that it's doing no different to what the Uk and US have done in Iraq. And here we go again. It is all someone else's fault - never about the intransigence of Muslim zealots aims/attitudes/manipulation/intransigence/refusal to see any other side etc, etc. And what do the collective inadequacies produce - another day of lives being needlessly lost for whatever reasons. And all, supposedly, in the name of one God or another. If you are a true believer Ultra rather than a person who's been brought up or coerced into involvement in a religion which, often seems to me to have nothing to do with true faith and certainly nothing to do with freedom of choice or freedoms of any kind, then you should perhaps think about wiping all hatred from your heart and start doing your little bit to set an example and champion the cause of reconciliation. If of course, you have the freedom so to campaign because my questions about freedom remain unanswered. Don't even you think that, at this time, God might appreciate someone who tried to save lives instead of stirring up yet more bitterness and disrespect because, if the concept of God is reality rather than illusion, don't you think God might be cheesed off that so many of the people he provided with brains to think with, continue blasting his creations into pieces before the natural end of their three score years and ten. And when I see the news bulletins, those deaths in either Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Iraq or Afghanistan are being caused by people of many nations, many religions or branches of religion. You cannot simply continue pointing the finger of criticism in one direction. It just isn't true and if people like you continue to believe or pretend it is there will be no peace and God's name will continue to be abused and insulted by what amounts to nothing more than collectively sinful opportunists and hypocrites.
Ultra Posted 30 July 2006 Posted 30 July 2006 Thracian Unlike you I don't have the time or the inclination to write self-righteous, pompous 1000-word diatribes against those I disagree with, whether it's other posters, Rob Kelly, or anybody else. You have made your position clear on numerous occasions. You see Islam and its adherents as the problem. Any evidence presented to the contrary is simply ignored. Yet you tell ME I have "hatred in my heart"...
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 Thracian Unlike you I don't have the time or the inclination to write self-righteous, pompous 1000-word diatribes against those I disagree with, whether it's other posters, Rob Kelly, or anybody else. You have made your position clear on numerous occasions. You see Islam and its adherents as the problem. Any evidence presented to the contrary is simply ignored. Yet you tell ME I have "hatred in my heart"... Personally, I think to claim that God is on either side of any war is blasphemy. Imagine being a parent and having your children belting the crap out of each other, then for both of them to claim that you're backing one and not the other. On another note, I think this recent development shows that Israel is conscious about the impact that the war is having on Lebanese civilians and is willing to give the time for evacuations / investigations.
Thracian Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 Thracian Unlike you I don't have the time or the inclination to write self-righteous, pompous 1000-word diatribes against those I disagree with, whether it's other posters, Rob Kelly, or anybody else. You have made your position clear on numerous occasions. You see Islam and its adherents as the problem. Any evidence presented to the contrary is simply ignored. Yet you tell ME I have "hatred in my heart"... You are one to talk about anyone making their position clear. You ignore any questions on the subject which, presumably, are uncomfortable to answer and instead continuously repeat your line that Israel is to blame for everything negative that happens in Palestine and Lebanon with no one word of criticism of the other factors which have fanned the flames of conflict and, even this morning, left more and more people dead, dying and permanently maimed. I do indeed see Islam and its inherents as PART of the problem because if supposed moderates like yourself are so intransigent, so disinclined to see any fault but that of others, what chance is there of talking to the zealots. But to therefore suggest that this opinion equates to hatred is utterly false and ridiculous, and no less outrageous than your misguided view that I somehow have BNP sympathies when I have never even been near a BNP website and would not intend to (as you well know unless you'd also call me a liar). Of course, knowing the nonsense of these views it makes me extremely doubtful about accepting anything else you present as fact. For your information I opposed the military action in Iraq LOUDLY AND CLEARLY before it even started and several times on this forum because it was illegal (in my view) inhumane, unjustified, misguided and was bound to be an idealogical and propaganda disaster for the West. You, on the other hand, never utter one word of criticism about murderous pro-Islam actions which are taken both militarily and idealogically with the sole intention of maintaining and extending the influence of a religion which is so uncertain of itself that its leaders are paranoid about not allowing any notion of free choice among its adherents, like yourself. For what it is worth I wholly regret the virtual breakdown of relations between the West and the Islamic peoples, just as I am disgusted at the declared intention of spreading the word of Islam apparently regardless of consequencies. But how can you talk about my not listening to any evidence you present, when it is clearly so selective and when you never answer any questions which occur as a result? Are your people ever free to question the right and wrong of your actions as we are? Far from hating you, I feel profoundly sorry for you. If you ever demonstrated through your words that you really do have a faith in and fear of God which demands only right thinking attitudes in respect of mankind then I would be deeply impressed. But the impression I get is of a man who's been got at and manipulated by an ideology which - although quite possibly a potential force for good in its pure form - seems actually to have been hi-jacked by self-seeking fanatics who wish to terrorise both their own adherents and others into submission to their will. Nothing new in that. Various New Age religions, even the Catholics and at times the Christian Church have all adopted the same approach by one means or another. But we're not talking about them. In fact, on this particular subject, I probably agree with you that there is little point in our talking at all.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 For what it is worth I wholly regret the virtual breakdown of relations between the West and the Islamic peoples, just as I am disgusted at the declared intention of spreading the word of Islam and apparently regardless of consequencies. But how can you talk about my not listening to any evidence you present, when it is clearly so selective and when you never answer any questions which occur as a result? These are words of reason. Acknowledging the faults of both sides is hardly promoting hatred. You can't blame Israel for everything that happens in the region, just as you can't blame Palestine. It's the extremist who takes a religion of peace and turns it into one of fear and hatred. True of both Zionists and Hamas.
Head Honcho Posted 31 July 2006 Author Posted 31 July 2006 When Hezbollah stop using highly populated areas as launch pads for their rockets, then and only then will the civillian casualty numbers decrease. The Lebonese authorities must take some blame due to their lack of action in preventing Hezbollah from using these areas.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 Ronnie Rosenthal, now he was a player. Albeit a hilariously bad one.
macbeth Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 When Hezbollah stop using highly populated areas as launch pads for their rockets, then and only then will the civillian casualty numbers decrease. The Lebonese authorities must take some blame due to their lack of action in preventing Hezbollah from using these areas. exacly ; it is lebanon/hezbollah who choose to use the innocents as human shields; it is they who have the blood on their hands
Head Honcho Posted 31 July 2006 Author Posted 31 July 2006 Ronnie Rosenthal, now he was a player. Albeit a hilariously bad one. Not that bad A hatrick on his debut and arguably winning the title for Liverpool even though he didn't get a medal as he hadn't played enough games!
The People's Hero Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 Please can you settle this argument for me.. is Ian Ormondroyd Israeli?
macbeth Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 Please can you settle this argument for me.. is Ian Ormondroyd Israeli? i'm sorry you've come to the wrong room for arbitration .............this is the argument stoking room not settlement;
The People's Hero Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 i'm sorry you've come to the wrong room for arbitration .............this is the argument stoking room not settlement; Could you direct me to the call centre which can settle it then? And by settle it I mean refer me to someone else who doesn't know either. Remember Turkey Twizzlers? They sounded like such a good idea, but were so wa nk it defied belief!
Monk Posted 31 July 2006 Posted 31 July 2006 I've decided to get involved in this thread at long last. I am not a closet diplomat so please bear with me. My understanding of the situation is that the REAL reason Israel have invaded is that they know its only a matter of time before Iran develops a nuclear bomb and gives it to Hezbolla. The reason for this is that it would allow Iran to not get nuked in return. Therefore Israel has to eliminate Hezbollah to protect its livelyhood. I am never a supporter of military action but from this standpoint Israel are in a very sticky situation. Lest get one thing straight - it is not the fault of the Lebanese government because IMO they are not established enough to deal with such a situation. Therefore this explains the UK and US's stance because they know that technically unless Hezbolla is eliminated there is going to be trouble, but if we support Israel in their actions we will be in trouble too. Discuss/Flame
Head Honcho Posted 31 July 2006 Author Posted 31 July 2006 I've decided to get involved in this thread at long last. I am not a closet diplomat so please bear with me. My understanding of the situation is that the REAL reason Israel have invaded is that they know its only a matter of time before Iran develops a nuclear bomb and gives it to Hezbolla. The reason for this is that it would allow Iran to not get nuked in return. Therefore Israel has to eliminate Hezbollah to protect its livelyhood. I am never a supporter of military action but from this standpoint Israel are in a very sticky situation. Lest get one thing straight - it is not the fault of the Lebanese government because IMO they are not established enough to deal with such a situation. Lest get one thing straight - it is not the fault of the Lebanese government because IMO they are not established enough to deal with such a situation. Therefore this explains the UK and US's stance because they know that technically unless Hezbolla is eliminated there is going to be trouble, but if we support Israel in their actions we will be in trouble too. Discuss/Flame The Lebanese government have done little to deter Hezbollah from using it's land to launch rocket attacks and therefore must take some of the blame!
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