Stuliasz Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 Go and beat Chelski 2-1 last week then lose at home to Portsmouth 4-0!
Head Honcho Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 Go and beat Chelski 2-1 last week then lose at home to Portsmouth 4-0! ..............and I had a bet on them to win 2-1
Mark Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 Great game of football tonight - it's been a long time coming.
dandannieldanok Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 Whats happened to Kanu, he has been reformed, I always thought he was terrible in front of goal. How wrong I was.
Anish Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 I'm not surprised to be honest. I hope they get relegated. I have a problem with the way that top players nowadays walk straight into 'top' manager jobs, with Gareth Southgate being the perfect example. Just because he was a quality defender (and worked under some good managers) it doesn't mean he should walk straight into a Premiership manager's job. I feel sorry for the numerous managers in the Championship/lower leagues who have served their apprentice at non-league/League 2 clubs before working their way upwards. That's how the likes of Alex Ferguson, Martin O'Neill, and more recently Iain Dowie and Mike Newell have done it. Unfashionable managers (who didn't have glittering playing careers) are being overlooked just in favour of these players who have absolutely no experience and no track record. Managers like Dave Jones, Steve Cotterill etc are all decent managers with good records to boot, yet I doubt they'll ever get the opportunity to manage a Premiership outfit. I don't have anything against Gareth Southgate as a person, but I can't stand the fact that he's just walked into the manager's job with no experience.
Bert Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 Good points Anish, and also if the decision to appoint Southgate backfires which it may well do, it could cause relegation and it would be very harsh on the fans.
Nationwider Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 Good points Anish, and also if the decision to appoint Southgate backfires which it may well do, it could cause relegation and it would be very harsh on the fans. For Gibson/Southgate, read also Quinn/Keane. I hope for Gibbo's and Qunny's sakes, that personal ties haven't clouded their professional judgement.
Ultra Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 I feel sorry for the numerous managers in the Championship/lower leagues who have served their apprentice at non-league/League 2 clubs before working their way upwards. That's how the likes of Alex Ferguson, Martin O'Neill, and more recently Iain Dowie and Mike Newell have done it. Unfashionable managers (who didn't have glittering playing careers) are being overlooked just in favour of these players who have absolutely no experience and no track record. Managers like Dave Jones, Steve Cotterill etc are all decent managers with good records to boot, yet I doubt they'll ever get the opportunity to manage a Premiership outfit. Dave Jones took Wolves up - and then took them straight down again. He was also at Southampton until they sacked him for alleged kiddie-fiddling (although he was later cleared) The Championship is probably about his level. Southgate probably got the Boro job because other candidates (eg MON) weren't available. I don't think the Premiership is the best place to learn your trade as a manager. Unless sugar daddy Gibson flashes the chequebook, Boro could struggle this season.
Bert Posted 28 August 2006 Posted 28 August 2006 It's best to learn your trade in the lower divisions just as O'Neill, Aidy Boothroyd have and are seeming to do.
lookwhaticando Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 I don't mind Boro... bit disappointed at their choice of boss, I think it was silly and it might backfire. Portsmouth on the other hand I hate with a passion. I was absolutely gutted watching tonight's game. Horrendous. I wanted Portsmouth to get relegated last season, but Gaymark's (or whatver that crooked businessman's name is) millions helped Redknapp buy his way out of the shit. I hated them before, I hate them even more now.
Thracian Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 There's plenty of experienced managers who cock-up big time - Mick McCarthy, David O'Leary, Bryan Robson, the list is endless. Employers should be free to choose who they want and I cannot imagine many players having more experience of training/coaching in different situations (international and club) than Southgate and Keane. It isn't really that they are suddenly walking into a top job. They have rarely been away from top clubs throughout the longest of careers. I would sooner entrust my clubs future to someone with their pedigree than a badge holder from the lower leagues who's had a decent season or two managing - but only at his natural and familiar level. Often a big part of managing/coaching is respect and it helps that the level of player you're involved with knows that you've experienced the situation they are going into and that you can demonstrate what you want because you've done it. Occasionally people from lower-grade football win through to coach at the top but it's a lot harder for them to win the respect of international quality players. Indeed from my experience, lots of people who get coaching badges should never have been allowed near a coaching course. They couldn't play, they couldn't demonstrate and they couldn't communicate, the latter being every bit and more important sometimes than the other qualities. Even with top grade professionals you only have to listen to some of em on television to know they will never be inspiring for any length of time. But I don't think that's the case with Southgate, who has huge experience and seems intelligent or Keane has ability and passion in abundance. If they fail they'll be sacked - almost anyone can fail in football management - but I wouldn't bet on it.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 Has anyone seen that clip of Quinn last year at Ewood Park when he was prompted on whether Keane would make a good manager by Richard Keys? Keys - "In one word?" Quinn - "Doubtful." When has it ever worked? People might mention Stuart Pearce but he was player/manager at Forest seven or eight years ago and has been involved in coaching at Man City for ages. To be ploughed straight into management like this is a big ask for them both and the Boro fans will probably have to cope with many more results like the one last night. Having said that, after their capitulations at home to Villa and away to Arsenal last season, how bad can it get? The same goes for Sunderland. It couldn't get much worse than the last 15 months they've had.
Anish Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 Thracian yet again I completely disagree. You mentioned the names of David O'Leary and Bryan Robson - how ironic it is that they are further examples of big name players walking into Premiership managers' jobs with no experience. O'Leary became manager of Leeds while Robson took the job at Middlesbrough - and got them relegated!! Shows that Boro haven't learnt a thing from that mistake. They had no track record anywhere before getting those jobs, so your argument that they have experience is quite puzzling. Keane and Southgate have experience playing at the top, not managing at the top. That's completely different. Just because you've experienced things as a player which other players are experiencing, it doesn't mean you are better at managing them. As for respect, I would argue that players respect managers based on how well they do in their current job, how they treat the players, motivate them and coach them - not on whether they were top class players 5/10/15 years ago. That's what fans do - which is why fans have (stupidly imo) supported the appointment of Robson (at Boro and WBA), Southgate, Quinn and Keane (S'land) without considering their respective abilities for the job. And another example of a man working his way right to the top is Jose Mourinho. He didn't even play professional football yet look where he is now. I doubt that the Chelsea players respect him any less because he never made it pro. Ultra - just because Dave Jones took Wolves down it doesn't make him a bad manager, and shouldn't mean that he's useless in the Premiership. Jones did a fine job at Soton before those child abuse allegations wrecked his career. Also, other managers have got teams relegated and still managed in the Premiership again. Bryan Robson got Boro relegated but WBA still appointed him as manager, Alan Curbishley got Charlton relegated but then proved himself to be a great manager. Iain Dowie is another one who got Palace relegated but was given the Charlton job. My point is that just because a manager gets relegated in the Premiership it shouldn't mean that he'll never be given the opportunity to manage there again.
Gené and Tonic Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 A word on Southgate, you can't really blame him for taking the job, it's not like he wouldn't pass it up.
lildave3 Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 I feel sorry for the numerous managers in the Championship/lower leagues who have served their apprentice at non-league/League 2 clubs before working their way upwards. That's how the likes of Alex Ferguson, Martin O'Neill, and more recently Iain Dowie and Mike Newell have done it. Unfashionable managers (who didn't have glittering playing careers) are being overlooked just in favour of these players who have absolutely no experience and no track record. Managers like Dave Jones, Steve Cotterill etc are all decent managers with good records to boot, yet I doubt they'll ever get the opportunity to manage a Premiership outfit. Martin O'Neill and Mike Newell have both played in the champions league, and in MON's case he won it....twice. How can that not be a glittering career? Plus Dave Jones has managed in prem and Steve Cotterill has assisted Howard Wilkinson in the prem for sunderland.
Thracian Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 Thracian yet again I completely disagree. You mentioned the names of David O'Leary and Bryan Robson - how ironic it is that they are further examples of big name players walking into Premiership managers' jobs with no experience. O'Leary became manager of Leeds while Robson took the job at Middlesbrough - and got them relegated!! Shows that Boro haven't learnt a thing from that mistake. They had no track record anywhere before getting those jobs, so your argument that they have experience is quite puzzling. Keane and Southgate have experience playing at the top, not managing at the top. That's completely different. Just because you've experienced things as a player which other players are experiencing, it doesn't mean you are better at managing them. As for respect, I would argue that players respect managers based on how well they do in their current job, how they treat the players, motivate them and coach them - not on whether they were top class players 5/10/15 years ago. That's what fans do - which is why fans have (stupidly imo) supported the appointment of Robson (at Boro and WBA), Southgate, Quinn and Keane (S'land) without considering their respective abilities for the job. And another example of a man working his way right to the top is Jose Mourinho. He didn't even play professional football yet look where he is now. I doubt that the Chelsea players respect him any less because he never made it pro. Ultra - just because Dave Jones took Wolves down it doesn't make him a bad manager, and shouldn't mean that he's useless in the Premiership. Jones did a fine job at Soton before those child abuse allegations wrecked his career. Also, other managers have got teams relegated and still managed in the Premiership again. Bryan Robson got Boro relegated but WBA still appointed him as manager, Alan Curbishley got Charlton relegated but then proved himself to be a great manager. Iain Dowie is another one who got Palace relegated but was given the Charlton job. My point is that just because a manager gets relegated in the Premiership it shouldn't mean that he'll never be given the opportunity to manage there again. We will always disagree. Although I wouldn't have appointed Bryan Robson to manage a civic loo both he and O'Leary were much experienced managers when taking over their present clubs and have failed miserably. By contrast Kelly has had no managerial experience at Leicester and has so far fared relatively well and certainly so in his general approach. I'd back Keane to manage any club wonderfully and Southgate represents as good a bet as anyone else at Middlesbrough because, like Kelly at Leicester, he knows the set-up inside out. The reason I'd back Keane is the same one I'd always back MON. The charisma to inspire people. I read an article only today about Keane giving a motivational speech and the comment that the team he was addressing felt they could have beaten all their opponents at once after he'd finished. Keane not only knows and understands football but he's an amusing and inspirational speaker - a larger-than-life individual. Exactly the sort I'd expect to manage a football club successfully, given his winning experiences in the game as an extra.
Stevosevic Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 I'm not surprised to be honest. I hope they get relegated. I have a problem with the way that top players nowadays walk straight into 'top' manager jobs, with Gareth Southgate being the perfect example. Just because he was a quality defender (and worked under some good managers) it doesn't mean he should walk straight into a Premiership manager's job. I feel sorry for the numerous managers in the Championship/lower leagues who have served their apprentice at non-league/League 2 clubs before working their way upwards. That's how the likes of Alex Ferguson, Martin O'Neill, and more recently Iain Dowie and Mike Newell have done it. Unfashionable managers (who didn't have glittering playing careers) are being overlooked just in favour of these players who have absolutely no experience and no track record. Managers like Dave Jones, Steve Cotterill etc are all decent managers with good records to boot, yet I doubt they'll ever get the opportunity to manage a Premiership outfit. I don't have anything against Gareth Southgate as a person, but I can't stand the fact that he's just walked into the manager's job with no experience. absolute nonsense
davieG Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 absolute nonsense Then people question why their posts are deleted, if you can't be asked to reply properly and respectfully don't bother. Your comments would be taken more seriously if you explained why you think so!
Master Fox Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 Then people question why their posts are deleted, if you can't be asked to reply properly and respectfully don't bother. Your comments would be taken more seriously if you explained why you think so! Balderdash
davieG Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 Balderdash That might even have been acceptable if it was remotely funny.
Master Fox Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 That might even have been acceptable if it was remotely funny. I see
Anish Posted 29 August 2006 Posted 29 August 2006 absolute nonsense What you have highlighted doesn't even make sense. Come on, justify your comments if you disagree. Saying 'nonsense' and nothing else shows your limited intellect.
Stevosevic Posted 31 August 2006 Posted 31 August 2006 What you have highlighted doesn't even make sense. Come on, justify your comments if you disagree. Saying 'nonsense' and nothing else shows your limited intellect. i would explain, however lildave3 has already said why it is nonsense so why repeat it? and i think you will find i do normally justify my comments and express an argument, in every topic there are posts that are just 1, 2 or 3 words long but nobody comments on those.
Ultra Posted 1 September 2006 Posted 1 September 2006 Unless sugar daddy Gibson flashes the chequebook, Boro could struggle this season. The chequebook has been duly flashed. Woodgate, Huth and Euell look quality signings. Boro should be a safe bet now for mid-table.
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