Duberry accuses Tiatto of racism

[London_Fox]

"Wtf are you on about. Calling someone's mum is not racist you prat - I bet you were picked on as a kid, and now like to be the champion of others who get victomised."

That makes very little sense...he was banned for making references to Zidane's origins (north Africa) and calling his mum and sister terrorist whores from what I remember. I'll ignore the personal references but I don't think being the champion of people who get victimised is something to be ashamed of...do you?

[Manwell Pablo]

.... I can't do it....

..... I did think about it as well.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Maybe he thought it was Pericard.

It was an easy mistake to make.

They were both wearing red-and-white shirts.

[Master Fox]

Ultra will be wanting Tiatto banned, no doubt.

He won't be amused!!!

[The Don]

"Wtf are you on about. Calling someone's mum is not racist you prat - I bet you were picked on as a kid, and now like to be the champion of others who get victomised."

That makes very little sense...he was banned for making references to Zidane's origins (north Africa) and calling his mum and sister terrorist whores from what I remember. I'll ignore the personal references but I don't think being the champion of people who get victimised is something to be ashamed of...do you?

Glad your not affected by my comments, this whole issue is doing my head in. I really wish I hadn't been drawn back into this thread.

But your comments saying people only thought racism was due to colour was far off. I like most people were just wondering what was actually said to provoke these racism claims.

As it is it seems as though it wasn't meant to be racist, wasn't taken by Diou as racist, so therefore in my eyes it can't be racist. Be a champion if you like, but do it somewhere that'll make a difference - try and convert the BNP.

[FrankieWorthoYaggedMyWife]

"Wtf are you on about. Calling someone's mum is not racist you prat - I bet you were picked on as a kid, and now like to be the champion of others who get victomised."

That makes very little sense...he was banned for making references to Zidane's origins (north Africa) and calling his mum and sister terrorist whores from what I remember. I'll ignore the personal references but I don't think being the champion of people who get victimised is

something to be ashamed of...do you?

I think you will find Materazzi pulled Zidanes shirt, Zidane said "if you want it that bad you can have it after the game?" Materazzi replied: "I would rather have your sisters!"

This is total bollox!

Are you no longer able to refer to peoples nationality?

Even if Tiatto did get his country of birth wrong!!!!

Diao is a **** anyway and we should all say so!!!

[TheShrew]

I think you will find Materazzi pulled Zidanes shirt, Zidane said "if you want it that bad you can have it after the game?" Materazzi replied: "I would rather have your sisters!"

From a lip reading Lady for the mail :

"First Marco Matterazzi called the French star the Italian equivalent of 'n*****', and then insulted both his mother and his Muslim background by saying he is the 'son of a terrorist whore."

"The expert, who can lip read foreign languages phonetically and translate with the aid of an Italian interpreter, was unable to see what Zidane said in reply.

But she saw that as the players walked forward Materazzi said: 'We all know you are the son of a terrorist whore."

Link

I'd say that's pretty racist.

But back on topic... Tiatto's a dullard, Diao is a dirty player...

[London_Fox]

But your comments saying people only thought racism was due to colour was far off. I like most people were just wondering what was actually said to provoke these racism claims.

As it is it seems as though it wasn't meant to be racist, wasn't taken by Diou as racist, so therefore in my eyes it can't be racist. Be a champion if you like, but do it somewhere that'll make a difference - try and convert the BNP.

It doesn't seem that way, people are happy to dismiss comments about nationality as nothing to get worried about (it's everywhere in this thread). I agree with you on one major point and that's left to be seen which is that racism is defined by the victim and so if Diao comes out and says he found it racist then I think it becomes an issue (which is why I said he should make a proper complaint if he wants), my assumption is that Duberry spoke with his permission as his captain. If Diao makes no complaint then I don't think Tiatto has an actual case to answer, although arguably as a rolemodel and former club captain he should know better.

I don't think it's either or in terms of fighting racism. As I said to Thracian earlier, you can fight it at football which has a huge influence on the younger generation as part of a wider fight against racism which includes the BNP.

"Are you no longer able to refer to peoples nationality?"

Depends on the context but no I don't think you should be able to abuse people, discriminate against them or be derogatry to people on the basis of their nationality which to many people is as sensitive and important as the colour of their skin. The fact that Tiatto got his nationalist wrong is no great reflection on him but also not hugely relevant.

[Manwell Pablo]

A Spainard called me a Swedish ****er once.

This did not offend me in the slightest.

[FrankieWorthoYaggedMyWife]

I WAS SPAT ON IN GREECE BY SOME **** ON A SCOOTER!!!!

I didn't think it was racist though, probably more to do with the how envious he was at the blonde bird with the big tits i was taking home!!!!

[Barry Trotter]

I thought Tiatto had a good game, there would be no need for him to be racist. Maybe it's just his style of play that drove stoke potty.

[Manwell Pablo]

I WAS SPAT ON IN GREECE BY SOME **** ON A SCOOTER!!!!

I didn't think it was racist though, probably more to do with the how envious he was at the blonde bird with the big tits i was taking home!!!!

Either that, or he disagreed with the abuse of blow up sex toys.

[Thracian]

It doesn't seem that way, people are happy to dismiss comments about nationality as nothing to get worried about (it's everywhere in this thread). I agree with you on one major point and that's left to be seen which is that racism is defined by the victim and so if Diao comes out and says he found it racist then I think it becomes an issue (which is why I said he should make a proper complaint if he wants), my assumption is that Duberry spoke with his permission as his captain. If Diao makes no complaint then I don't think Tiatto has an actual case to answer, although arguably as a rolemodel and former club captain he should know better.

I don't think it's either or in terms of fighting racism. As I said to Thracian earlier, you can fight it at football which has a huge influence on the younger generation as part of a wider fight against racism which includes the BNP.

"Are you no longer able to refer to peoples nationality?"

Depends on the context but no I don't think you should be able to abuse people, discriminate against them or be derogatry to people on the basis of their nationality which to many people is as sensitive and important as the colour of their skin. The fact that Tiatto got his nationalist wrong is no great reflection on him but also not hugely relevant.

Even the role model thing is overdone. My kids went to City to watch football matches and be impressed by people's football not their social or moral standards, which would be pretty fruitless in many cases anyway.

If footballers behaved stupidly in front of my never-that-impressionable kids, I'd try to explain why they were stupid, and why that was not the way to behave. Later they were well able to make their own choices between right and wrong without having the Tiatto's of this world influencing them.

They had far more persistent influences that might be described as "bad" in school (at least the two that attended) and they coped with them.

So I'm damned sure anything Tiatto does won't matter to kids one way or the other. "Role model" is another exaggeration that's used to give more credence to a campaign that's fuelled by imagination much of the time rather than seriously important issues or incidents.

Like I say, I'd rather the Government had the will to tackle really important racism and genuinely anti-social crimes that have racial undertones rather than pissing about with some indiscreet but utterly inconsequencial bit of verbals.

[Thracian]

Just to clarify that I totally agree that if there is no proof of what was said then fine, let it drop but my issue is with fans on this board seemingly happy to make excuses for racism or narrowly define it to suit themselves. It's not part of being liberal or PC (and by the way I see nothing wrong with being liberal) to say that comments about someone's background, nationality, race or colour are unacceptable. We don't know what Tiatto said but some people are quick to assume that if something isn't about the colour of your skin then it can't be racism but that's just not true. Race isn't purely defined as black or white. If you want to be pedantic we can call it xenophobia but I don't think that makes it any more acceptable.

You talk about "furthering their campaign" like it's some sort of sinister thing to make the world a worst place. I think it's actually quite positive that whenever racism comes up we take it seriously and deal with it. For example when Muzzy was the victim of abuse from fans (specifically Everton ones after the two Leeds fans got stabbed) we were rightly disgusted and outraged, that wasn't about the colour of his skin. Matteratzi's comments to Zidane weren't about the colour of his skin but were still racist.

Diao should come forward and make a proper complaint if he wants to make one but let's not also forget that whatever is in his past Duberry is his captain and so has a place to speak out against racism when it's aimed at one of his players. Hopefully things will come out in the open and it can be dealt with properly because these rumours are doing no good for anyone but the attitude of some people on here is still alarming.

It's not being narrowly defined. Those are your words. Campaigns lose impace if they are devalued by the noise made about petty issues. What matters is to tackle the important race issues. And that includes the huge amount of blatant racism against whites.

[Dr The Singh]

Even the role model thing is overdone. My kids went to City to watch football matches and be impressed by people's football not their social or moral standards, which would be pretty fruitless in many cases anyway.

If footballers behaved stupidly in front of my never-that-impressionable kids, I'd try to explain why they were stupid, and why that was not the way to behave. Later they were well able to make their own choices between right and wrong without having the Tiatto's of this world influencing them.

They had far more persistent influences that might be described as "bad" in school (at least the two that attended) and they coped with them.

So I'm damned sure anything Tiatto does won't matter to kids one way or the other. "Role model" is another exaggeration that's used to give more credence to a campaign that's fuelled by imagination much of the time rather than seriously important issues or incidents.

Like I say, I'd rather the Government had the will to tackle really important racism and genuinely anti-social crimes that have racial undertones rather than pissing about with some indiscreet but utterly inconsequencial bit of verbals.

I'm surprised, it has gone this far, nobody has made a compliant and yet the 'authorities' see fit to intervene!!

Footballers make terrible role models, with them spitting, swearing all the times, but that's not to say children shouldn't aspire to be as good at football as those players!!!

[Thracian]

I'm surprised, it has gone this far, nobody has made a compliant and yet the 'authorities' see fit to intervene!!

Footballers make terrible role models, with them spitting, swearing all the times, but that's not to say children shouldn't aspire to be as good at football as those players!!!

Absolutely. And our stupid authorities will ban him for five games instead of someone simply having talked it through with him after the game and what will that do? Well I don't imagine he's racist or especially racist in the first place but the reaction will hardly endear him to those whose made this such a public issue. He'll quite possibly despise them for the rest of his career. A very contructive outcome.

[FrankieWorthoYaggedMyWife]

Either that, or he disagreed with the abuse of blow up sex toys.

I wish it had have been! the creature I woke up next to was a right sh*t heep!

The doll would have been cheaper to entertain, better conversation and would have probably performed better!!!!!!

[London_Fox]

Even the role model thing is overdone. My kids went to City to watch football matches and be impressed by people's football not their social or moral standards, which would be pretty fruitless in many cases anyway.

If footballers behaved stupidly in front of my never-that-impressionable kids, I'd try to explain why they were stupid, and why that was not the way to behave. Later they were well able to make their own choices between right and wrong without having the Tiatto's of this world influencing them.

They had far more persistent influences that might be described as "bad" in school (at least the two that attended) and they coped with them.

So I'm damned sure anything Tiatto does won't matter to kids one way or the other. "Role model" is another exaggeration that's used to give more credence to a campaign that's fuelled by imagination much of the time rather than seriously important issues or incidents.

Like I say, I'd rather the Government had the will to tackle really important racism and genuinely anti-social crimes that have racial undertones rather than pissing about with some indiscreet but utterly inconsequencial bit of verbals.

You've clearly done well with your kids and I commend you for that but that doesn't change the fact that many kids do look up to their footballing ideals and can't tell the difference between 'football skills' and the other crap on the football pitch that goes with it. They don't learn to swear, spit and argue with the referee from the teachers at school most of the time.

I don't think you can say that a campaign to battle racism in football is "fuelled by imagination" unless you want to be utterly ignorant to the reality. This whole thing about white people being the victims doesn't take away from racism aimed at other people. I tihnk you are somwhat deluded if you believe that white people are the victims of more racism or more serious racism then ethnic minorities in this country.

I like your recent idea of talking to him after the game, maybe introducing him to a map of the world and educating him about the evils of racism. That may well be more constructive then a five match ban but doesn't have to be instead of the rightful condemnation which you would spare him.

[lcfc_jme]

What a crock of bollocks. If everyone made a complaint and claimed racism everytime they heard somebody referred to as a "**** from somewhere" (obviously replacing the 'from somewhere with a country name and putting it infront of ****) then we'd be investigating "racism" all the time. Pathetic, and as I posted earlier, I hope Duberry is punished for slander and/or improper conduct

[Thracian]

You've clearly done well with your kids and I commend you for that but that doesn't change the fact that many kids do look up to their footballing ideals and can't tell the difference between 'football skills' and the other crap on the football pitch that goes with it. They don't learn to swear, spit and argue with the referee from the teachers at school most of the time.

I don't think you can say that a campaign to battle racism in football is "fuelled by imagination" unless you want to be utterly ignorant to the reality. This whole thing about white people being the victims doesn't take away from racism aimed at other people. I tihnk you are somwhat deluded if you believe that white people are the victims of more racism or more serious racism then ethnic minorities in this country.

I like your recent idea of talking to him after the game, maybe introducing him to a map of the world and educating him about the evils of racism. That may well be more constructive then a five match ban but doesn't have to be instead of the rightful condemnation which you would spare him.

If kids spit. swear and conduct themselves badly it is probably down to weak-willed kids and ineffective or absent parents more than anything else. If I or my kids see someone shot outside a night-club we wouldn't get a gun and do the same because we well know it's not the right thing to do and also well know that there are people around like that. They don't become role models to other than people who would be easily influenced whatever.

I don't think I said whites suffered more racism than others but the emphasis on tackling racism always seems to be in the direction of whites against ethnics rather than the other way around which is ridiculous and totally indefensible because there is endless anti-white racism and it can be seen every day and in everyday life.

Indeed it is getting to the stage there needs to be a separate campaign against it seeing the existing campaign, if your views are a reflection, barely accepts that it exists.

[London_Fox]

I can hear the groans as I drag this topic back up the board again...sorry!

"If kids spit. swear and conduct themselves badly it is probably down to weak-willed kids and ineffective or absent parents more than anything else. If I or my kids see someone shot outside a night-club we wouldn't get a gun and do the same because we well know it's not the right thing to do and also well know that there are people around like that. They don't become role models to other than people who would be easily influenced whatever.

I don't think I said whites suffered more racism than others but the emphasis on tackling racism always seems to be in the direction of whites against ethnics rather than the other way around which is ridiculous and totally indefensible because there is endless anti-white racism and it can be seen every day and in everyday life.

Indeed it is getting to the stage there needs to be a separate campaign against it seeing the existing campaign, if your views are a reflection, barely accepts that it exists."

You're doing very well to completly ignore the point. It doesn't matter if racism towards white people exists because it doesn't excuse racism towards ethnic groups or a willingness to ignore it. I'm glad you're kids aren't easily influenced but unfortunatly many people are (you can blame it on the children or the parents but it doesn't really matter) and footballers are a major influence on many young people.

The reason the emphasis is on tackling racism against ethnic groups because will all due respect the white majority in this country have had it pretty easy over the years in comparison to what it's like being part of an ethnic minority. Look at the stats of rising hate crimes. Of course I accept that there is racism against white people and its disgusting and unacceptable and needs to be stamped out but that's not an excuse for other forms which you were happy to sweep under the carpet as football banter in the heat of the moment.

[Manwell Pablo]

You've clearly done well with your kids and I commend you for that but that doesn't change the fact that many kids do look up to their footballing ideals and can't tell the difference between 'football skills' and the other crap on the football pitch that goes with it. They don't learn to swear, spit and argue with the referee from the teachers at school most of the time.

I don't think you can say that a campaign to battle racism in football is "fuelled by imagination" unless you want to be utterly ignorant to the reality. This whole thing about white people being the victims doesn't take away from racism aimed at other people. I tihnk you are somwhat deluded if you believe that white people are the victims of more racism or more serious racism then ethnic minorities in this country. I tihnk you are somwhat deluded if you believe that white people are the victims of more racism or more serious racism then ethnic minorities in this country.

I like your recent idea of talking to him after the game, maybe introducing him to a map of the world and educating him about the evils of racism. That may well be more constructive then a five match ban but doesn't have to be instead of the rightful condemnation which you would spare him.

I have a nice inch scar on my left eyebrow that will argue with you on that one.

I think you'll find the more serious racial attacks occur on white people. Espically in the north of England I have seen the stats, something I decided to look up after one of three very serious attacks I've been on the recieving end of. Just becuase I iz a "white boy" init <_<. less intellegent white people can be very disprectful and hurtful with what they say and the way the act around ethnic minorites, but I find it's more than six one hald a dosen of the over when it comes to actuall hatred and physical assault.

[Thracian]

I can hear the groans as I drag this topic back up the board again...sorry!

"If kids spit. swear and conduct themselves badly it is probably down to weak-willed kids and ineffective or absent parents more than anything else. If I or my kids see someone shot outside a night-club we wouldn't get a gun and do the same because we well know it's not the right thing to do and also well know that there are people around like that. They don't become role models to other than people who would be easily influenced whatever.

I don't think I said whites suffered more racism than others but the emphasis on tackling racism always seems to be in the direction of whites against ethnics rather than the other way around which is ridiculous and totally indefensible because there is endless anti-white racism and it can be seen every day and in everyday life.

Indeed it is getting to the stage there needs to be a separate campaign against it seeing the existing campaign, if your views are a reflection, barely accepts that it exists."

You're doing very well to completly ignore the point. It doesn't matter if racism towards white people exists because it doesn't excuse racism towards ethnic groups or a willingness to ignore it. I'm glad you're kids aren't easily influenced but unfortunatly many people are (you can blame it on the children or the parents but it doesn't really matter) and footballers are a major influence on many young people.

The reason the emphasis is on tackling racism against ethnic groups because will all due respect the white majority in this country have had it pretty easy over the years in comparison to what it's like being part of an ethnic minority. Look at the stats of rising hate crimes. Of course I accept that there is racism against white people and its disgusting and unacceptable and needs to be stamped out but that's not an excuse for other forms which you were happy to sweep under the carpet as football banter in the heat of the moment.

===========

You talk of convenience but neglect to mention Mugabe, but I'll tell you this.

I don't sweep anything under the carpet. I simply see no benefit in championing pettiness.

And already I think this whole issue has been counter-productive to the racist argument - being far more likely to fan conflict and resentment than to heal wounds - and it only emphasises how many activists are out there shafting football for their own gratification and personal ends.

I can't ever remember when the general white populace of this country had it easy compared to ethnic minorities - over 100 of my extended family were slaughtered by the Germans and many worked ridiculously long hours down the coal mines and in other disagreeable places to earn a crust - but if you're so certain they've had it easy then perhaps some would like it to stay that way. After all it's been their home and source of income for long enough.

Perhaps they don't want to think that they, or their children, have not got a chance of getting a decent job because of this God-forsaken Government's contrived social manipulation which is an insult to the white/non-ethnic natives and condescending to worthy immigrants. Or is that not the sort of real justice you want to represent. The idea of jobs for those who are best qualified to do them.

Compared with many, many places in the World England is an incredibly tolerant country racially. When don't you go and preach anti-racism in Zimbabwe?

Decent people have been welcomed into England by the millions. Football is full of such folk, and so is every major city in our land as you can plainly see. And what is the consequence?. Every day you read of people taking advantage of our nation's decency, manipulating its laws and spitting on what it represents.

Given the choice of stamping out the stabbing of unarmed residents by serial offenders and sorting a bit of verbal I know where I'd start, thanks.

.

[Katy]

Where does MP's quote end and Thracians post begin?

[lookwhaticando]

I have a nice inch scar on my left eyebrow that will argue with you on that one.

I think you'll find the more serious racial attacks occur on white people. Espically in the north of England I have seen the stats, something I decided to look up after one of three very serious attacks I've been on the recieving end of. Just becuase I iz a "white boy" init <_<. less intellegent white people can be very disprectful and hurtful with what they say and the way the act around ethnic minorites, but I find it's more than six one hald a dosen of the over when it comes to actuall hatred and physical assault.

Sorry to hear that.

While we're on the subject, I also received a bit of a beating in Derby city centre by a group of youths I assume to have been Pakistani or Bangladeshi youths - or somewhere around that region. They were in their late teens or early 20s, and I was but 13 at the time. Don't think it was a straight-out racially motivated attack, but it happened nonetheless. They asked for money, I said I didn't have any (which I didn't - come on, I was 13!) but they wouldn't take no for an answer, as I turned and started to walk away I was hit from the side in the jaw. Bit of blood, funny-feeling jaw for a couple of weeks but nothing lasting (thankfully).