Sharia Law

[Daggers]

i'm not sure if they should be called lemon disco or harpic bob ( i'm for harpic bob , it conjures up a nice image of sh*t clean round the bend !!)

Nice work

how the **** can someone's legitimate concerns regarding the undue inflence of a religion on people's lives elicit the ridiculous anti nazi tirades from these two ? surely if there is a nazi attitude its the ones who wish to dominate others by the use of ridiculous ourmoded religious dogma

Dear Dead Blues Brother,

The song lyrics (I'm sure you've read) announce the arrival of fascists out of the woodwork, and it was being used in context. Lo and behold, Fox4eva appears (previously confessed far-right supporter/BNP voter).

My posting in this thread could hardly be described as a 'tirade' ~ I reckon your final paragraph is more in that league, eh?

Now, the last time I looked, within a free society we have the right to mock; I love a good mocking and I can see from your name-play that you enjoy a little bit of it too - so let's calm down a bit and stop taking life & Thracian so seriously.

[Hullfox]

Not a reader of the Express either but I would worry about the reliability of the full story.

Self policing of political/religious groups is nothing new but in my mind the whole concept is a dangerous one as such institutions cannot (as The Singh says) be allowed above the national law.

Rather than impose their own justice, if indeed these practices are going on, wouldn't it be better for those concerned to work towards more integration to the national law in whichever country they reside?

The whole concept of Sharia Law troubles me (probably because I don't fully understand it) but the recent case of the chappy from Leeds released from prison in Pakistan shows how the system can be unpredictable.

[Thracian]

Not a reader of the Express either but I would worry about the reliability of the full story.

Self policing of political/religious groups is nothing new but in my mind the whole concept is a dangerous one as such institutions cannot (as The Singh says) be allowed above the national law.

Rather than impose their own justice, if indeed these practices are going on, wouldn't it be better for those concerned to work towards more integration to the national law in whichever country they reside?

The whole concept of Sharia Law troubles me (probably because I don't fully understand it) but the recent case of the chappy from Leeds released from prison in Pakistan shows how the system can be unpredictable.

I'm not quite sure why the reliability of the story should be in question.

There are any number of attributed quotes in the story including one from Faisal Iqtab Siddiqi, head of the Hijaz College Islamic Univeristy on the A5 near Hinckley in which he is quoted as saying:

"We no longer have the bobby on the beat who will give somebody a slap on the wrist."

"So I think there is a case to be made under which the elders sit together and reprimand people trying to get them to change."

Given their political stance I would imagine the Express would be super-careful that the story was reliable and the extent of the quotes taken would certainly suggest that to me.

PS:

Before anyone draws the wrong conclusion I read most national newspapers, both left and right, over a week.

[Head Honcho]

Don't know what you're getting at Harpic. The point Thracian is making (I think) is that sharia law is creeping into British society....unofficially or not. If you think this is a good thing, then O.K. but don't be suprised if it is anathema to the rest of us. This case is only the thin edge of the wedge.

If Muslim's do not wish to respect the majority of the society they live in and attempt to change our legal system in a democratic fashion, then they should go and live in a country that does practice sharia law.

This is just the beginning.

It won't be long before all their taxes are used for Islamic only concerns.

[Hullfox]

I'm not quite sure why the reliability of the story should be in question.

If it appears in a daily newspaper, I question reliability.

Cynical maybe but I was once misled into believing there was a double decker bus on the moon - Once bitten twice shy.

[Thracian]

There is follow up piece today in the Express.

Today's article quotes Dr Sookhdeo, who is a muslim-born Christian convert as saying: "The drive to implement sharia in the UK, both within the Muslim Community and the British legal system, must be seen as part of Islam's impetus to dominate all socieites it finds itself in."

Reacting to Dr Sookhdeo's report on sharia in Britain which reveals "honour killings, polygamy and mutilation" Dr Kalim Siddiqui, director of the Iranian-backed Muslim Institute is quoted as saying: "There are laws on the British statute book that are in direct conflict with the laws of Allah. We are Muslims first and last."

[breadandcheese]

I read this story too in the press, but was not under the impression it stepped out of line with UK law.

If I am write in my understanding of our laws, UK law makes provisions for civil matters to be decided arbitrarily between a group of individuals, or a tribunal panel, providing both parties agree to the proceedings and any punishment is considered reasonable. In which case, there is nothing unlawful about these religious tribunals. The only potential unlawful bit is should a ruling be unreasonable or should a judgement be made and the defendant refuse to abide by the decision. In any of these cases, UK law can then intervene.

My own views on this are that for civil matters (e.g. dispute between two muslim traders or something like that), I don't believe there is any harm in it and what's more, hope it free's up our legal justice system a bit. Of course, if it is a criminal matter, (e.g. assault, burglary, theft) then religious law is left by the wayside and the full force of UK law should be held up against any wrong-doers.

[Thracian]

If it appears in a daily newspaper, I question reliability.

Cynical maybe but I was once misled into believing there was a double decker bus on the moon - Once bitten twice shy.

I had always wondered about you Hullfox .... Only joking.

[hairy]

If it appears in a daily newspaper, I question reliability.

Cynical maybe but I was once misled into believing there was a double decker bus on the moon - Once bitten twice shy.

You are going to tell me the WWII bomber which took Hitler to the moon at the end of the war is no longer there next!

[GKD]

Having read this article i was shocked at the poor reporting from a national newspaper.

Im not a fan of the express, it does tend to exagerate things at times.

There was very little proof that sharia is being implimented here.The only example they gave was a group of people from the same community sat down a discussed a situation between two lads of that community.I mean isnt the first thing said to law students is it is better to negotiate then to litigate.

They chose to get quotes from recognised trouble makers the Dr from the institution of of islam and christianity or whatever its called has a history of bad mouthing many religions to promote christianity.

I dont think its anything to worry about unless down sitting down discussing a matter between two people instead of going to court is practicising sharia-then im sure many in this country are carrying it out.

Such incidents happen in many communities-sikh,hindu,christian,muslim etc.

there are some things which are being allowed to certain communities i have to agree with that. the other day i saw a sikh lad in the full attire on welford road carrying a knife!!!This was in broad day light as well!I dont know the law governing such situation but why would ne peaceful person need to carry a knife in this day and age?

But jumping on the bandwagon is only playing into the hands of the far right and the extremist.

[Thracian]

I read this story too in the press, but was not under the impression it stepped out of line with UK law.

If I am write in my understanding of our laws, UK law makes provisions for civil matters to be decided arbitrarily between a group of individuals, or a tribunal panel, providing both parties agree to the proceedings and any punishment is considered reasonable. In which case, there is nothing unlawful about these religious tribunals. The only potential unlawful bit is should a ruling be unreasonable or should a judgement be made and the defendant refuse to abide by the decision. In any of these cases, UK law can then intervene.

My own views on this are that for civil matters (e.g. dispute between two muslim traders or something like that), I don't believe there is any harm in it and what's more, hope it free's up our legal justice system a bit. Of course, if it is a criminal matter, (e.g. assault, burglary, theft) then religious law is left by the wayside and the full force of UK law should be held up against any wrong-doers.

The case highlighted at Woolwich, South London was an assault which would normally have gone to a British criminal court. However, you are right in your general track. Commenting on Woolwich, Scotland Yard said it is quite normal not to proceed with criminal charges over assault where the victim declined to press charges, as was the case.

My point is that, if this becomes more and more the situation until Muslims have the power to force changes in the law, how far will the unofficial powers eventually extend and are people declining to take action through the criminal court because they are under duress.

I haven't mentioned it previously but Dr Sookhdeo's report highlighted cases of honour killings, polygamy and mutilation in the UK which were, so the article implies, supposedly carried out against Muslims under Islamic law (though not, as far as I could see, necessarily by the decree of any unofficial Islamic courts).

I dimly remember such cases reaching the papers but truly have no evidence to hand about them. However, if Dr Sookhdeo is correct, is that really what we want English law to eventually advocate and, meanwhile, perhaps turn a blind eye too?

Another thing would interest me. Would Muslim women vote for sharia law?

[Steven]

The case highlighted at Woolwich, South London was an assault which would normally have gone to a British criminal court. However, you are right in your general track. Commenting on Woolwich, Scotland Yard said it is quite normal not to proceed with criminal charges over assault where the victim declined to press charges, as was the case.

My point is that, if this becomes more and more the situation until Muslims have the power to force changes in the law, how far will the unofficial powers eventually extend and are people declining to take action through the criminal court because they are under duress.

I haven't mentioned it previously but Dr Sookhdeo's report highlighted cases of honour killings, polygamy and mutilation in the UK which were, so the article implies, supposedly carried out against Muslims under Islamic law (though not, as far as I could see, necessarily by the decree of any unofficial Islamic courts).

I dimly remember such cases reaching the papers but truly have no evidence to hand about them. However, if Dr Sookhdeo is correct, is that really what we want English law to eventually advocate and, meanwhile, perhaps turn a blind eye too?

Another thing would interest me. Would Muslim women vote for sharia law?

That is why Democracy and Disestablishmentarism is need in the UK as soon as possible.

[Lemon Harpic]

how the **** can someone's legitimate concerns regarding the undue inflence of a religion on people's lives elicit the ridiculous anti nazi tirades from these two ?

Ridiculous anti-Nazi tirade?

Are you on crack?

I have posted nothing in this thread that even remotely resembles an anti-Nazi tirade.

Seriously, get a fυcking grip.

[Daggers]

Another thing would interest me. Would Muslim women vote for sharia law?

Then why not go talk to them instead of addressing these questions to a predominantly white, male, non-Muslim forum?

[l444ry]

Then why not go talk to them instead of addressing these questions to a predominantly white, male, non-Muslim forum?

Why answer a question with another petulant nonsensical question, Bob? Thracian has posted a legitimate point which deserves a more reasoned and respectful response than that.

[Phube]

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread, but threee things:

The Express is only interested in:

1) Bloody Diana 'murder' conspiracy (front page at least twice a week!!!)

2) Immagration policy.

3) Anti-Islamic sentiments!!

[cisono]

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread, but threee things:

Neither can I

I saw one such Diana scandal front page from the distance some time this week. I thought to myself

"is that today's paper or an old paper from 9 years ago?"

[Daggers]

Why answer a question with another petulant nonsensical question, Bob? Thracian has posted a legitimate point which deserves a more reasoned and respectful response than that.

Thracian posted a question, I posted an answer in the form of a question. Surely, if he seriously wants to find out what Muslim women think then discussing the matter with them would be a logical and reasonable step to take - otherwise it strikes me as being nothing more than hot air.

Point me to the bits in your post where you were respectful and reasoned? I can see the bits that could be described as arrogant and condescending but the respect and reasoned is eluding me

[l444ry]

Thracian posted a question, I posted an answer in the form of a question. Surely, if he seriously wants to find out what Muslim women think then discussing the matter with them would be a logical and reasonable step to take - otherwise it strikes me as being nothing more than hot air.

Point me to the bits in your post where you were respectful and reasoned? I can see the bits that could be described as arrogant and condescending but the respect and reasoned is eluding me

You point them out Bob, as you've now alluded to them twice. I think perhaps you should read more carefully. You're no mug, Bob. Far from it. You make some very interesting comments when you stay on track. But you're bloody infuriating when you have your cantankerous head on......

[Thracian]

Neither can I

I saw one such Diana scandal front page from the distance some time this week. I thought to myself

"is that today's paper or an old paper from 9 years ago?"

Seeing as there appears to be a blatant and deliberate cover up by the Establishment on this issue - I wonder how you'd feel if it were your sister or brother that no-one would give you straight answers about.

I'm not naturally anti-Monarchist, as some well know, but I could change my mind because this whole story stinks. And the Express have to be commended in my eyes for persisting in trying to get to the truth of it all.

.