Strikers Shine In Training Game

[The People's Hero]

No chance you might be wrong then.

Like you weren't wrong in Sheehan being the future of LCFC?

What you are saying as your opinion is fine... but what you present as 'fact' is just misleading and is a bit unfair on those who don't see the games.

My opinion is that Elvis Hammond is sh it.

You berated the likes of Sylla etc for not scoring enough goals, yet you refuse to do the same with Hammond. Look at his career stats. He's supposed to be a striker.

He can't finish. He can't pass. He's not aware of what's going on around him. His control is appalling. He's garbage in the air. He can run fast, yes, but so can Jamie Baulch.. I don't see you arguing for his inclusion.

Fryatt is 10 times the player Elvis is and if you want to do a direct comparison, try looking at Elvis' goalscoring exploits when he was Fryatt's age....

[shen]

Bit more than 5 goals, and probabley about 2 assists, Thracians dressed up the stats to make them look better than they are by saying "he's been involved" in about 10 goals. "involved" as in the missing an open goals, running into people, and throwing himself around.

I tell you what shen... have you ever seen him play?

The suggestion that he might score a hat-trick suggests otherwise.

If he ever scores a hat-trick for us in a competitive game... well.. can you honestly see it?

Not true, Shen.

I've admitted that Elvis Hammond has had his best season of his career so far. But he's hardly done a great deal has he? He's done more than Fryatt and for now he's our third most effective striker. But looking past that, he's never going to be a prolific scorer and he's far too inconsistent to even unsettle defences. Even Kelly doesn't pick him that often and Kelly think's he's a smashing lad.

Elvis Hammond's next career move will highlight his talents, it won't be to a better club than ourselves. If he's lucky he'll get one more shot at this level, but my instinct tells me he'll be off to League One very soon.

It would be a miricle if he put away one let alone 3.

And he has only got a handful of assists people on here go on like he has made every single goal we've scored this season.

The thing is he has no footballing brain or skill and he's been here way longer than he should have been.

Yes, I've seen him play, and I don't rate him either. But No-one can run away from the fact that he is occasionally scoring goals, and it's not like he's keeping a superstar out of the team, quite the contrary. I don't understand why it's so hard to accept that he IS contributing with something that quite a large part of the squad aren't. I wouldn't keep him for next season, we should get a better option than Hammond for sure, but the point is that the guy doesn't ever get a break from some. And deeming him useless compared to a host of other players this season is just making him a scape-goat.

[Manwell Pablo]

Funny you should say that, look whos third on the assists list for last season.

[shen]

Even if Hammond scored with his Backside Thrac would say it was a piece of sublime skill that only Dodds can replicate whilst most others would see it as pure luck.

But a goal is a goal, they all count the same. Drogba's a player who scores plenty of goals through "pure luck" (which of course it isn't). We can all agree that Tevez has amazing ability, but even Hammond could have scored more goals this season, and any West Ham fan would take "lucky" goals over none at all.

[Thracian]

Even if Hammond scored with his Backside Thrac would say it was a piece of sublime skill that only Dodds can replicate whilst most others would see it as pure luck.

I honestly don't give a damn if striker's score with their backside, their knee or from a rebound off the defender.

The big thing about attackers is getting into the box where it hurts and being in the position to cause havoc.

I've mentioned Frank Large. He made Hammond look like Johann Cruyff for style. But he was brave and persistent and the crowd loved him cos he was forever scoring goals from situations where onlhy the insane would put their foot in.

There is absolutely no way of comparing the style of Dodds to the style of Hammond. They are completely different animals. But both are scandalously underrated.

And if master coach Kelly could work on Hammond's control - I mean really work - and on getting his head up more, then there's extras to come from him yet.

Someone asked do I think Hammond would have been a pro but for his pace and I'd say no. But it is not just his pace - it is his strength and bravery. Fryatt will never have any of those threee attributes. He has other things. But they only work effectively when he's at his sharpest and those qualities are probably easier to find elsewhere.

[The People's Hero]

But a goal is a goal, they all count the same. Drogba's a player who scores plenty of goals through "pure luck" (which of course it isn't). We can all agree that Tevez has amazing ability, but even Hammond could have scored more goals this season, and any West Ham fan would take "lucky" goals over none at all.

Hammond, Tevez and Drogba all in the same post.

I'd chuckle if I thought it was intentionally funny.

[Thracian]

http://www.football-league.premiumtv.co.uk...0610274,00.html

Elvis Hammond has 3 assists this season.

Having said that, I don't know whether these stats are strictly true because i'd have put money on Porter having made more than 3 assists in the league this season. Off the top of my head he set up Hume's first on saturday, Horsfield's first against Cov and one of McAuley's goals against Ipswich, last just in the past month!.

It depends how you define an assist....whether it's the last pass or a part in the move that leads to a goal.

I'm not going through it in detail but that's the tally for Hammond within one and Porter has had far more than three assists.

From memory it's around six/seven plus his three goals.

Also I'd ask if the official stats count cup games.

[The People's Hero]

I've seen the man miss open goals on more than one occasion.

I've seen him stand in an offside position for minutes on end, not realising what he's doing.

I've seen him shoot wide and weakly when others were better placed and screaming for the ball... if he was such a vital cog and laid on so many assists, surely he'd have done the right thing? Truth is he didn't see them as he just gets his head done and fu cks up.

And this is all in one season, supposedly his best.

I fear we're only 3 posts away from a consideration of how many goals he may or may not have scored against some ropey U16's side at one time or another or how many disallowed goals he's scored...

[shen]

Hammond, Tevez and Drogba all in the same post.

I'd chuckle if I thought it was intentionally funny.

Well if I named players like Preben Elkjær, Mikkel Beck, Sibusiso Zuma nobody would know what or who I'm on about.

But sure, rip it out of context..

[The People's Hero]

Well if I named players like Preben Elkjær, Mikkel Beck, Sibusiso Zuma nobody would know what or who I'm on about.

But sure, rip it out of context..

Yeah - no one has ever heard of Mikkel Beck

You seriously can't see what is ridiculous about your comparison?

Drogba is one of the best goalscorers in the world at the moment.

Elvis has one of the worst career goalscoring records of any professional striker.

[Thracian]

I've seen the man miss open goals on more than one occasion.

I've seen him stand in an offside position for minutes on end, not realising what he's doing.

I've seen him shoot wide and weakly when others were better placed and screaming for the ball... if he was such a vital cog and laid on so many assists, surely he'd have done the right thing? Truth is he didn't see them as he just gets his head done and fu cks up.

And this is all in one season, supposedly his best.

I fear we're only 3 posts away from a consideration of how many goals he may or may not have scored against some ropey U16's side at one time or another or how many disallowed goals he's scored...

I don't recall him missing open goals. I recall him having close range shots well saved by the goalkeeper and there was one classic example which sums up the selective thinking on here - and the utterly illogical favouritism.

Hammond had a shot from the right of goal from about 12/14 yards. He should have scored but the effort from blocked and lots of fans (probably the same crowd as in this thread) lambasted the guy.

A week later Fryatt did the same from an easier position and closer range and there was barely a whisper of criticism.

Fryatt has missed the easiest and closest range chances this season - along with Horsfield. But all that is ovrlooked. I'd rather stick to the reality and the reality is that Hammond has had far more involvement in goals for Leicester City this season than Fryatt, Horsfield or Cadamarteri (though I have some sympathy for him).

And that, in the end, is what I think is important. Effect.

[Manwell Pablo]

It depends how you define an assist....whether it's the last pass or a part in the move that leads to a goal.

I'm not going through it in detail but that's the tally for Hammond within one and Porter has had far more than three assists.

From memory it's around six/seven plus his three goals.

Also I'd ask if the official stats count cup games.

yeah they do, he has three in the league three in the cup (porter)

Plenty of players are often involved in the build up to goals. as assist is this last ball played.

I'll admit I thought it was more than three, and a swear Fryatt put Hume through V Ipswich at the Walkers but yet he has none?

[Manwell Pablo]

I don't recall him missing open goals. I recall him having close range shots well saved by the goalkeeper and there was one classic example which sums up the selective thinking on here - and the utterly illogical favouritism.

Hammond had a shot from the right of goal from about 12/14 yards. He should have scored but the effort from blocked and lots of fans (probably the same crowd as in this thread) lambasted the guy.

A week later Fryatt did the same from an easier position and closer range and there was barely a whisper of criticism.

Fryatt has missed the easiest and closest range chances this season - along with Horsfield. But all that is ovrlooked. I'd rather stick to the reality and the reality is that Hammond has had far more involvement in goals for Leicester City this season than Fryatt, Horsfield or Cadamarteri (though I have some sympathy for him).

And that, in the end, is what I think is important. Effect.

Thats not true though, Hammond has missed plenty more easy efforts. As for your comments about "good saves" it's easy to make a good save when the balls hit directly at you

[shen]

Yeah - no one has ever heard of Mikkel Beck

You seriously can't see what is ridiculous about your comparison?

Drogba is one of the best goalscorers in the world at the moment.

Elvis has one of the worst career goalscoring records of any professional striker.

Well you're old enough to remember him, but half of the people on here aren't

And you seriously can't see the point I'm making? I'm saying that even the best goalscorer in the world at the moment scores lucky/flukey goals, and to be honest, he's scored quite a few of them! Im merely pointing out that even less skillful players can hit a rich vein of form (Drogba) and that blessed players sometimes can't score to save their life! On a much reduced level, and a much less extreme way, you could say the same applies to Hammond and Fryatt. That's what I thought could be translated fro mmy post

[Ric Flair]

Well you're old enough to remember him, but half of the people on here aren't

And you seriously can't see the point I'm making? I'm saying that even the best goalscorer in the world at the moment scores lucky/flukey goals, and to be honest, he's scored quite a few of them! Im merely pointing out that even less skillful players can hit a rich vein of form (Drogba) and that blessed players sometimes can't score to save their life! On a much reduced level, and a much less extreme way, you could say the same applies to Hammond and Fryatt. That's what I thought could be translated fro mmy post

I kind of see what you're getting at.

[Flexx]

9 goals in 36 starts and 30 sub apps is the official stat.

So basically 9 goals in 66 games because it only takes a second to score a goal no matter how long your on the pitch for.

But if your counting his career then its 55 starts and 50 sub apps (105 apps, 11 goals). It doesn't matter what League he plays in though, if he can't finish he can't finish. Elvis get a new career mate

[Manwell Pablo]

Woooooo more statistics

Elvis Hammond has got the lowest % of shots on target out all of our strikers. 50% on goal.

[The People's Hero]

Well you're old enough to remember him, but half of the people on here aren't

And you seriously can't see the point I'm making? I'm saying that even the best goalscorer in the world at the moment scores lucky/flukey goals, and to be honest, he's scored quite a few of them! Im merely pointing out that even less skillful players can hit a rich vein of form (Drogba) and that blessed players sometimes can't score to save their life! On a much reduced level, and a much less extreme way, you could say the same applies to Hammond and Fryatt. That's what I thought could be translated fro mmy post

Yes but the best goalscorers in the world score lucky goals as well as good goals.

They score a lot of goals.

Hammond scores very few.

That's that in my eyes. As Thracian said, it's all about effect.

[shen]

Yes but the best goalscorers in the world score lucky goals as well as good goals.

They score a lot of goals.

Hammond scores very few.

That's that in my eyes. As Thracian said, it's all about effect.

But Hammond scores more goals than Fryatt, yet the former's supposedly the inferior player? I'm not disagreeing that he's shite, TPH, but so was Benjamin. It's not fair to either of them to say they didn't contribute though. And unitl RK actually uses Dodds or Odhiambo, we won't know if we have a more effective striker in our ranks, right?

[Thracian]

Woooooo more statistics

Elvis Hammond has got the lowest % of shots on target out all of our strikers. 50% on goal.

He get's less practise for a start.

But what on earth will you say if Andy King gets in the team. He misses lots of chances - but also has three or four times as many shots as any other midfield player we've got.

Hammond might be the same. He might have more shots than others and from more difficult situations.

I doubt Fryatt's had many shots at all so his on target average would be higher. Cadamarteri and Horsfield the same.

In fact you might have stumbled onto something there that's keeping our scoring down generally. Fryatt, Horsfield and Hume might think the team is picked on those statistics and are only having a pop when they feel certain of being on target...and they haven't told Elvis the statistics exist.

I knew there was an explanation for our overall shortage of goals and it was nothing to do with Cautious Kelly's tactics!!!!.

[The People's Hero]

But Hammond scores more goals than Fryatt, yet the former's supposedly the inferior player? I'm not disagreeing that he's shite, TPH, but so was Benjamin. It's not fair to either of them to say they didn't contribute though. And unitl RK actually uses Dodds or Odhiambo, we won't know if we have a more effective striker in our ranks, right?

Now you take that back.

[Manwell Pablo]

He get's less practise for a start.

But what on earth will you say if Andy King gets in the team. He misses lots of chances - but also has three or four times as many shots as any other midfield player we've got.

Hammond might be the same. He might have more shots than others and from more difficult situations.

I doubt Fryatt's had many shots at all so his on target average would be higher, Cadamarteri and Horsfield the same.

Incorrect answear Thracian

Matty Fryatt 20 on target 11 off = 31

Elvis Hammond 17 on target 17 off = 34

CUP

Matty Fryatt 5 on target 1 off = 6

Elvis Hammond 2 on 2 off = 4

So Elvis Hammond has had one more shot (and I bet it was off target) big deal.

Obviously Horsefieds a differnt matter, as I've said he's been here a month scored two goals and we've not lost what more do you want?

EDIT: The Andy King thing, Midfielders are a differnt matter they tend to shoot from further out, most our midfielders have more off than on.

[shen]

Now you take that back.

make me

[Thracian]

Incorrect answear Thracian

Matty Fryatt 20 on target 11 off = 31

Elvis Hammond 17 on target 17 off = 34

CUP

Matty Fryatt 5 on target 1 off = 6

Elvis Hammond 2 on 2 off = 4

So Elvis Hammond has had one more shot (and I bet it was off target) big deal.

Obviously Horsefieds a differnt matter, as I've said he's been here a month scored two goals and we've not lost what more do you want?

EDIT: The Andy King thing, Midfielders are a differnt matter they tend to shoot from further out, most our midfielders have more off than on.

Most of our mifielders don't have many at all that are worth the name.

Nice to see Elvis is not only faster and stronger than Fryatt but also has just about the same number of shots in League games. He's better than I thought... and different class for accuracy in cup matches

[Manwell Pablo]

Most of our mifielders don't have many at all that are worth the name.

Nice to see Elvis is not only faster and stronger than Fryatt but also has just about the same number of shots. He's even better than I thought... and different class for accuracy in cup matches

Eh?