Police take the chance to be thugs

[breadandcheese]

The Roma fans didn't seem to Charge the fence they just approached it a wind the Man u fans up, they retailated by charging the Roma fans already at the fence, it's unclear who started the missles first so please stop insuating it was without question the Italians.

That's great. You tell me it's unclear who started the missiles and ask me to stop insinuating as such. However, beforehand, you do the same regarding approaching/charging the barrier.

My argument is that the Italian police were poor, badly equipped, ill-trained and unable to deal with stewarding large crowds. Nothing you have said has been contrary to this, although you have tried to provide understanding as to why Italian police operate differently to in the UK. That is my point, they operate differently. Our police operate far better, more even, less heavy handed and generally more effective than Italian police in handling large crowds at football matches. Next to our police, they are bad at their job and I would not have a lot of confidence in them policing a big game.

I don't think it's a valid argument to say, they're foreign with a different foreign approach to policing. They should be looking to see how other forces around Europe operate, particularly when they have foreign fans coming to their country, who let's face it, are not going to be used to foreign "policing cultures".

[Daggers]

I don't think it's a valid argument to say, they're foreign with a different foreign approach to policing. They should be looking to see how other forces around Europe operate, particularly when they have foreign fans coming to their country, who let's face it, are not going to be used to foreign "policing cultures".

That, my dear favourite sandwich, is EXACTLY what it is.

Your cultural perspective is that you have a set of expectations for the treatment of supporters and the behaviour of police based on your experience of going to matches here.

Their Chief of Police has declared their actions to be in line with their policing policy and that they did a good job. That's his cultural perspective.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

[l444ry]

Amazing how so many can make such a judgement from obviously biased television pictures. The poor Manchester Utd. supporters were obviously innocent - just like the Iranian "hostages" were clearly in Iraqi waters. Perhaps the Italians should have allowed our fine British Bobbies to step in with their notebooks and ask them politely to desist from their aggresive behaviour.

The Manchester supporters thought they were being clever by attacking the fence because that sort of scumbag behaviour goes unpunished on the streets of Britain every day, and they were too thick to realise how Italy deals with it's morons.

Anyway, this just shows why we can never return to terracing.

[Thracian]

Thracian. Read Manwell's post and at least TRY to understand what SOMEONE ELSE is saying for once.

PEOPLE CLOSE TO THE BARRIER WERE GETTING HIT.

They SHOULD NOT have been close to the barrier.

They had warning... they must even have seen others getting hit.

They were not entirely innocent.

I've read and understood exacty what Manwell has said and he makes some interesting and valid points, as usual.

But when all have been considered there is no excuse for the Police laying into innocent or "not entirely innocent" people with their batons - and continuing to do so - just because they were in the area or helping friends who had already been assaulted.

They were right out of order.

Authoritarian thuggery was all that was and to condone it even by implication or excuse is simply to offer justification for the same in the future.

Fans should all behave but how the hell it helps to have those in authority behaving like thugs at the first opportunity is beyond me.

That wasn't just reacting to trouble and calming it down - that was individual officers relishing the opportunity to give anyone in the line of sight a whacking. Sustained bullying of the worst kind and of people who were no threat whatsoever.

[Master Fox]

This was sick. Made me laugh how the police were on the English side of the barrier and not the Italian,the poor bloke who was on the floor getting hit in the head by the police and he just carried on doing it. No need what so ever for this. They will get there Comeuppance one day.

Let's just hope they do.

[Daggers]

For those of you that seem to be so upset over the actions of the Italian police:

Try writing to

The Ambassador, Giancarlo Aragona

Embassy of Italy in London

14, Three Kings Yard

London W1K 4EH

and

UEFA

Route de Genève 46

Case postale

CH-1260 Nyon 2

Switzerland

If you actually care that much, that is...

[Fez of Mahrez]

For those of you that seem to be so upset over the actions of the Italian police:

Try writing to

The Ambassador, Giancarlo Aragona

Embassy of Italy in London

14, Three Kings Yard

London W1K 4EH

and

UEFA

Route de Genève 46

Case postale

CH-1260 Nyon 2

Switzerland

If you actually care that much, that is...

Nah it's ok, now they've got the address they can go and stage a hunger protest.

[Thracian]

Amazing how so many can make such a judgement from obviously biased television pictures. The poor Manchester Utd. supporters were obviously innocent - just like the Iranian "hostages" were clearly in Iraqi waters. Perhaps the Italians should have allowed our fine British Bobbies to step in with their notebooks and ask them politely to desist from their aggresive behaviour.

The Manchester supporters thought they were being clever by attacking the fence because that sort of scumbag behaviour goes unpunished on the streets of Britain every day, and they were too thick to realise how Italy deals with it's morons.

Anyway, this just shows why we can never return to terracing.

Not once has anyone said or suggested the United fans were all innocent. But that is no excuse for people who were innocent getting randomly and continuously whacked.

It's the authorities who put all one club's fans in the same area. Some might not want to be near known or suspected trouble makers.

Doesn't mean they should get smashed remorselessly by policemen with clubs just because they were standing near the source of trouble.

Bloody hell some of the fans were on the floor with their backs to their assailant and doing nothing but try to cover their head. And even after seeing em like that police deliberately delivered more blows with ferocious force.

The idea of justice is that the guilty get punished not people who get accidentally involved for whatever reason.

And since when has being "thick" justified a pummelling?

[Fez of Mahrez]

Not once has anyone said or suggested the United fans were all innocent. But that is no excuse for people who were innocent getting randomly and continuously whacked.

It's the authorities who put all one club's fans in the same area. Some might not want to be near known or suspected trouble makers.

Doesn't mean they should get smashed remorselessly by policemen with clubs just because they were standing near the source of trouble.

Bloody hell some of the fans were on the floor with their backs to their assailant and doing nothing but try to cover their head. And even after seeing em like that police deliberately delivered more blows with ferocious force.

The idea of justice is that the guilty get punished not people who get accidentally involved for whatever reason.

And since when has being "thick" justified a pummelling?

As my grandma always said - if you charge at a load of blokes with batons, expect pain.

[Thracian]

Shhhh!

I think they've chosen to conveniently ignore that, mate!

It doesn't matter why anyone was there if they were not inciting trouble, not posing a threat. It might be right to forcibly remove them if they refused to budge in view of the dangers in the vicinity but not to assault people randomly.

[l444ry]

Not once has anyone said or suggested the United fans were all innocent. But that is no excuse for people who were innocent getting randomly and continuously whacked.

It's the authorities who put all one club's fans in the same area. Some might not want to be near known or suspected trouble makers.

Doesn't mean they should get smashed remorselessly by policemen with clubs just because they were standing near the source of trouble.

Bloody hell some of the fans were on the floor with their backs to their assailant and doing nothing but try to cover their head. And even after seeing em like that police deliberately delivered more blows with ferocious force.

The idea of justice is that the guilty get punished not people who get accidentally involved for whatever reason.

And since when has being "thick" justified a pummelling?

Just like not all the Italian Police were guilty of "pummelling" innocents. It is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

Nobody has said that they were being "pummelled" for being thick. You're over-egging your legitimate point when you delberately misquote, Thracian.

[Thracian]

Just like not all the Italian Police were guilty of "pummelling" innocents. It is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

Nobody has said that they were being "pummelled" for being thick. You're over-egging your legitimate point when you delberately misquote, Thracian.

I hope I've been careful not to suggest all the Italian police were acting like thugs but if not I apologise. Indeed I believe some senior officers tried to calm their men down from the start. It was only a few as I saw that were right out of order but there was no excuse for them whatsoever.

[davieG]

Some more video

[Brainy]

The fans close to the barrier may have had warning

But it doesn't mean thats the Police shouldn't have done anything.

'' You've been warned that if you sit here you may get hit by missiles. If you do get hit, don't complain. Like I said, you've been warned. Oh, and we won't do anything with the Roma fans. ''

Im completely uneducated on this subject but TPH let me in on a few things earlier.

The ''script'' is basically the picture painted in my head by a few posters on the other page.

[Floating Fox]

Amazing how so many can make such a judgement from obviously biased television pictures. The poor Manchester Utd. supporters were obviously innocent - just like the Iranian "hostages" were clearly in Iraqi waters. Perhaps the Italians should have allowed our fine British Bobbies to step in with their notebooks and ask them politely to desist from their aggresive behaviour.

The Manchester supporters thought they were being clever by attacking the fence because that sort of scumbag behaviour goes unpunished on the streets of Britain every day, and they were too thick to realise how Italy deals with it's morons.

Anyway, this just shows why we can never return to terracing.

Are you a complete **** or just a twat?

Both crowd troubles happen in ALL SEATER STADIUMS and the countries that have hooligan problems are, again all seater stadium venues. This week has proven the fickle theory that terraces = trouble. What stopped trouble in England was increase and 'improved' security as well as thousands of cameras etc etc.

How you can say that the Man U fans thought they were being clever is beyond me because, although what they did was wrong and lead to the violence, the Roma fans did it as well - So what you are saying is completly incorrect!

Just a note on the Spurs Incident - I think that had a bit more of a hooligan element to it as you could see them all in the lower tier before it kicked off looking rather dodgey and the Sevilla fans weren't involved.

[C-man]

I don't care if it quelled the violence, hitting someone 12 or 13 times with a baton and getting away with it because you wear uniform is scandalous. I wouldn't mind if the police had whacked a few fans once or twice, just to show that they mean business. But what they did is outrageous.

Anyone going to defend the copper who ploughed his squad car into a geezer in highfields?

[Flynny]

I don't care if it quelled the violence, hitting someone 12 or 13 times with a baton and getting away with it because you wear uniform is scandalous. I wouldn't mind if the police had whacked a few fans once or twice, just to show that they mean business. But what they did is outrageous.

Anyone going to defend the copper who ploughed his squad car into a geezer in highfields?

Yeah why not? Highfields? Probably only one of those dirty muzzys anyway. At least it stopped him probably blowing up a bus full of people, I shouldn't wonder.

I bet he was from a different country anyway. They have an entirely different culture! He probably counted himself lucky only to be run over and not tortured like back in his savage, barbarian home country.

Disclaimer: I am making a point/being sarcastic and am not racist. Not at all. I actually quite enjoy the 100 metres whenever it's on the telly.

[Shum]

Yeah why not? Highfields? Probably only one of those dirty muzzys anyway. At least it stopped him probably blowing up a bus full of people, I shouldn't wonder.

I bet he was from a different country anyway. They have an entirely different culture! He probably counted himself lucky only to be run over and not tortured like back in his savage, barbarian home country.

Above poster = silly twat!

I think you need to grow up.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Wait til an Irish team makes it to the UEFA Cup proper. They'll be complaining about them left, right and centre...

[Flynny]

Above poster = silly twat!

Quite possibly, aye.

[john_lcfc]

the police caused more trouble than they solved in both spurs and manure match because their tactics are wrong and dont work. The British police deal with it with softly softly policing and it works hence no major trouble in our country.

Indiscriminate beatings = winds fans up= trouble.

Foreign police taqctics are shit.

[l444ry]

Are you a complete **** or just a twat?

Both crowd troubles happen in ALL SEATER STADIUMS and the countries that have hooligan problems are, again all seater stadium venues. This week has proven the fickle theory that terraces = trouble. What stopped trouble in England was increase and 'improved' security as well as thousands of cameras etc etc.

How you can say that the Man U fans thought they were being clever is beyond me because, although what they did was wrong and lead to the violence, the Roma fans did it as well - So what you are saying is completly incorrect!

Just a note on the Spurs Incident - I think that had a bit more of a hooligan element to it as you could see them all in the lower tier before it kicked off looking rather dodgey and the Sevilla fans weren't involved.

I know perfectly well that these incidents happened in all-seater stadiums. Bloody obvious from the pictures don't you think? All I'd say is that if scumbag hooligans feel the need to behave like prats in a seated area, what makes anyone think they'd sudden develop halo's and become shining examples of good behaviour if placed in terraced areas.

I used to support the return of some sort of terracing but there are many yobs who'd abuse them and ruin it for the rest. So I changed my mind. The Roma v Manchester Utd. incident shows this. These scumbags didn't give a damn if their pathetic behaviour would end up getting innocent people involved. Until we get some sort of decent accepted behaviour then terraces will stay in the dark ages.

[Daggers]

I used to support the return of some sort of terracing but ...

Erm...how about terracing not being next to the opposition supporters then?

Just throwing this out there.

Left field, I know...but it didn't seem like you'd considered the obvious option.

[l444ry]

Erm...how about terracing not being next to the opposition supporters then?

Just throwing this out there.

Left field, I know...but it didn't seem like you'd considered the obvious option.

For what it's worth I wouldn't mind a bit Dave. I wonder if the terracing merchants would like it though. I stand to be corrected but don't some of them on here seem to want the club to put the "singing" section nearer to the away support. If that happened there'd only be one result....eventually.

[Daggers]

For what it's worth I wouldn't mind a bit Dave. I wonder if the terracing merchants would like it though. I stand to be corrected but don't some of them on here seem to want the club to put the "singing" section nearer to the away support. If that happened there'd only be one result....eventually.

Yup...but them is the people that seem to be drifting away from the whole N-block thing already!

And, I think there's a difference between "singing sections" and "terracing" - for me Terracing is The Kop.