Scum of the Earth

[Jon the Hat]

Yeah i'm sucking tax payers dry I don't work, i've been 'at home' for the past four years bringing a child up. There's only one not fantastic wage coming in so we rely on tax credits - sorry. I've paid tax and national insurance when I did work so now i'm getting it back.

Decent childcare is at a minimum round here so i've had no choice but to not go to work, plus she's my child and I wanted to bring her up myself. From September my little one goes to school so there's my chance to get a job and not rely so much on 'benefits'

Do you think i'm a scrounger? Do you hate me for it?

What people forget is that we actually need people to have kids, or we won't have anyone to pay the tax to maintain the country in our old age. You are therefore doing us all a service in raising the next generation of taxpayers. Well done you. If we have to invest now to encourage people to have kids I'm all for it.

The only problem I have is the utterly utterly imcompetent way it has been handled. I seriously doubt whether the government even considered how it would work before they announced it. Typical New Labour approach of coming up with a populist policy which sounds great to the voters, and creating a bureaucratic nightmare in the process. If they want o make peoples lives easier all they have to do is allow a combined tax allowance. So if you don't work, your partner / husband can use your allowance. Simple.

[Katy]

What people forget is that we actually need people to have kids, or we won't have anyone to pay the tax to maintain the country in our old age. You are therefore doing us all a service in raising the next generation of taxpayers. Well done you. If we have to invest now to encourage people to have kids I'm all for it.

The only problem I have is the utterly utterly imcompetent way it has been handled. I seriously doubt whether the government even considered how it would work before they announced it. Typical New Labour approach of coming up with a populist policy which sounds great to the voters, and creating a bureaucratic nightmare in the process. If they want o make peoples lives easier all they have to do is allow a combined tax allowance. So if you don't work, your partner / husband can use your allowance. Simple.

Thanks but I do feel I have to fight my corner sometimes, as I don't want to be thrown into the same category as people who deliberately bleed the system dry as stay at home mothers sometimes are.

I'll tell you what though, i'm glad i've stayed at home, as bringing her up without the help of nurseries etc has been more rewarding than any job I could've done. I sympathise with people who are forced to work, and if we still had been in Leicester and paying a mortgage then I would've had to have worked so I know i'm very lucky. Ahh the joys of tied houses.

[Kent Fox]

Don't wanna get anyones hopes up coz I have probably got this all wrong but I am sure I heard on the news a coupla weeks back that IF it is they who have cocked things up, they have to write the debt off

I seem to remember hearing this and that they were about to write of millions of £££.

As I say - check it out a bit coz I am slightly senile and tend to live in my own world at times.

I might even have a little look about to satisfy my own curiosity

[Head Honcho]

Yeah i'm sucking tax payers dry I don't work, i've been 'at home' for the past four years bringing a child up. There's only one not fantastic wage coming in so we rely on tax credits - sorry. I've paid tax and national insurance when I did work so now i'm getting it back.

Decent childcare is at a minimum round here so i've had no choice but to not go to work, plus she's my child and I wanted to bring her up myself. From September my little one goes to school so there's my chance to get a job and not rely so much on 'benefits'

Do you think i'm a scrounger? Do you hate me for it?

So you believe the reason you paid tax and NI is so you can take it back out when you decide to start a family do you?

I don't know your circumstances and wouldn't dream of judging you without knowing your circumstances but you know as well as I do that there are parent bringing up kids with no means of support so why have them in the first place and god forbid why have more when you can't afford the one's you have.

We live in the land of benefit seekers and yet idiots wonder why the government has to raise taxes.

Never before have so many people been so reliant on benefits it's a joke!

..........and where in my post did I say the word hate?

[Head Honcho]

What people forget is that we actually need people to have kids, or we won't have anyone to pay the tax to maintain the country in our old age. You are therefore doing us all a service in raising the next generation of taxpayers. Well done you. If we have to invest now to encourage people to have kids I'm all for it.

The only problem I have is the utterly utterly imcompetent way it has been handled. I seriously doubt whether the government even considered how it would work before they announced it. Typical New Labour approach of coming up with a populist policy which sounds great to the voters, and creating a bureaucratic nightmare in the process. If they want o make peoples lives easier all they have to do is allow a combined tax allowance. So if you don't work, your partner / husband can use your allowance. Simple.

Where has the sick avatar gone?

Most of the kids they are going to have will no doubt be on benefits though won't they?

There are generations of families on benefits in some ares of the country how is this going to help in the future?

[Katy]

So you believe the reason you paid tax and NI is so you can take it back out when you decide to start a family do you?

I don't know your circumstances and wouldn't dream of judging you without knowing your circumstances but you know as well as I do that there are parent bringing up kids with no means of support so why have them in the first place and god forbid why have more when you can't afford the one's you have.

We live in the land of benefit seekers and yet idiots wonder why the government has to raise taxes.

Never before have so many people been so reliant on benefits it's a joke!

..........and where in my post did I say the word hate?

Chill out - it was a question and not particularly aimed at you.

And no i'm not as stupid to think that i've paid in so I can take it out so quit the rolling of eyes oh perfect one

[Daggers]

I don't know your circumstances and wouldn't dream of judging you without knowing your circumstances but you know as well as I do that there are parent bringing up kids with no means of support so why have them in the first place and god forbid why have more when you can't afford the one's you have.

Al mate, your argument seems to revolve around 'only rich people should have kids'.

Not many of them will do overtime for you in the future either

...and Katy, affordable child-care should be a mandatory provision by all councils. The current provision, and charges, are a fooking disgrace.

[Kent Fox]

So you believe the reason you paid tax and NI is so you can take it back out when you decide to start a family do you?

I don't know your circumstances and wouldn't dream of judging you without knowing your circumstances but you know as well as I do that there are parent bringing up kids with no means of support so why have them in the first place and god forbid why have more when you can't afford the one's you have.

We live in the land of benefit seekers and yet idiots wonder why the government has to raise taxes.

Never before have so many people been so reliant on benefits it's a joke!

..........and where in my post did I say the word hate?

Whilst I agree in part as to what you're saying I think that if the majority of people waited until they could AFFORD to have kids, we'd die out as a race! Well - not quite!! No-one but the gifted and wealthy can afford to spend the thousands it costs to raise kids. And let's face it - most people want them, need them, love them and have them...

[The People's Hero]

Imagine me with some kids!

Hahahaha!

[Katy]

Al mate, your argument seems to revolve around 'only rich people should have kids'.

Not many of them will do overtime for you in the future either

...and Katy, affordable child-care should be a mandatory provision by all councils. The current provision, and charges, are a fooking disgrace.

Some people have blinkers Dave and i'm fooked if 'anyone' is going to begrudge my child's existence because they don't like the fact i've decided to look after my own child and not let anyone else do it. If i'd have had a couple of kids and sent them off to nursery the second they were born to go back to work I would have been slated too. Can't fooking win!

Rural Lincolnshire has zip in the way of decent childcare, and with no parents anywhere near it's shit street.

[Lord Nibblington]

Imagine me with some kids!

Hahahaha!

What? Your own kids?

Or have you just been out collectings waifs and strays again?

[Head Honcho]

Al mate, your argument seems to revolve around 'only rich people should have kids'.

Not many of them will do overtime for you in the future either

...and Katy, affordable child-care should be a mandatory provision by all councils. The current provision, and charges, are a fooking disgrace.

It may seem that way but families in the past have survived without the need for so many benefits!

Priorities is a word I like.

How anyone on here can plead poverty then go and spend £40 on a matchday is beyond me.

How many people do you know on benefits with Sky TV, X-Boxes and numerous other luxuries?

[Jon the Hat]

So you believe the reason you paid tax and NI is so you can take it back out when you decide to start a family do you?

Why do you think we pay our taxes and N.I.? Is part of it not to support a welfare state for the betterment of society as a whole? You will no doubt come back and start going on about people milking the system etc, but that is about implementation not about the theory.

I see nothing wrong with Katy's view that we pay in and support those who need assistance on the assumption that it might be us or people we care about that need it on another occiasion. And if it isn't then we are lcuky.

As it goes, this government has raised taxes becuase they are completely out of their depth, and don't have the balls to deliver the simplification the tax system clearly needs, probably becuase they are scared of reducing tax revenues and having to put an end to the brilliant employment scheme that they seem to think Goverment is supposed to be.

We need a lean minimalist government. Soon. Gordon Brown isn't going to deliver it.

[The People's Hero]

Why do you think we pay our taxes and N.I.? Is part of it not to support a welfare state for the betterment of society as a whole? You will no doubt come back and start going on about people milking the system etc, but that is about implementation not about the theory.

I see nothing wrong with Katy's view that we pay in and support those who need assistance on the assumption that it might be us or people we care about that need it on another occiasion. And if it isn't then we are lcuky.

As it goes, this government has raised taxes becuase they are completely out of their depth, and don't have the balls to deliver the simplification the tax system clearly needs, probably becuase they are scared of reducing tax revenues and having to put an end to the brilliant employment scheme that they seem to think Goverment is supposed to be.

We need a lean minimalist government. Soon. Gordon Brown isn't going to deliver it.

I think that could be a long way off too mate. The tide may be turning - but not very quickly.

We could do with a strong opposition, to make people think. Rather than what we have which is a number of uninspiring options, neither of which oftens any solutions, just political rhetoric we've all heard 100 times before.

[Daggers]

How anyone on here can plead poverty then go and spend £40 on a matchday is beyond me.

How many people do you know on benefits with Sky TV, X-Boxes and numerous other luxuries?

What - apart form me?

I have worked for 23 years and now find myself unable to find a child minder. Get that....there are no free child minders in this part of Birmingham. Who is going to collect my kids when the school club shuts? We saved, we had savings - they are now spent.

We have been paying for the kids to be in school club for two years now just to make sure that their places there are guaranteed should a child minder become available. There is no one to look after my kids during the 13 weeks of school holidays or the copious teacher training days.

I know what you mean about some people being stuck on benefits but the State should gear itself to encourage people to work...and this would be the single biggest step to do so: available, affordable child care.

[Jon the Hat]

What - apart form me?

I have worked for 23 years and now find myself unable to find a child minder. Get that....there are no free child minders in this part of Birmingham. Who is going to collect my kids when the school club shuts? We saved, we had savings - they are now spent.

We have been paying for the kids to be in school club for two years now just to make sure that their places there are guaranteed should a child minder become available. There is no one to look after my kids during the 13 weeks of school holidays or the copious teacher training days.

I know what you mean about some people being stuck on benefits but the State should gear itself to encourage people to work...and this would be the single biggest step to do so: available, affordable child care.

Yep. I'm inclined to think that all large employers should be required to provide childcare places, or at least fund them somehow. It is a cost of employment and should be treated as such a heavily subsidised. But I don't think we should necessarily encourage people to work and leave their kids in Childcare. You should be able to support a family on one average income. If you can't then something is wrong. Their needs to be a choice.

[Head Honcho]

Why do you think we pay our taxes and N.I.? Is part of it not to support a welfare state for the betterment of society as a whole? You will no doubt come back and start going on about people milking the system etc, but that is about implementation not about the theory.

I see nothing wrong with Katy's view that we pay in and support those who need assistance on the assumption that it might be us or people we care about that need it on another occiasion. And if it isn't then we are lcuky.

As it goes, this government has raised taxes becuase they are completely out of their depth, and don't have the balls to deliver the simplification the tax system clearly needs, probably becuase they are scared of reducing tax revenues and having to put an end to the brilliant employment scheme that they seem to think Goverment is supposed to be.

We need a lean minimalist government. Soon. Gordon Brown isn't going to deliver it.

I must have missed this bit when I last read a Tory manifesto

So Foxestalks very own David Cameron is now not opposed to the NHS and Social Security

Just remember it doesn't matter who you vote for the government always wins

[Katy]

It may seem that way but families in the past have survived without the need for so many benefits!

Priorities is a word I like.

How anyone on here can plead poverty then go and spend £40 on a matchday is beyond me.

How many people do you know on benefits with Sky TV, X-Boxes and numerous other luxuries?

You can scrub me off your little list there then.

Sky Tv? No we have freeview, cannot afford Sky

Car? Yes, live in a rural area with no transport

X-Box? No, don't have anything like that unless you count the Acorn Electron I had when I was kid

Watching Leicester? Err no about a handful of times last season, probably even less next. Definite luxuary

Second hand stuff and cast offs? Yes practically everything is in this house is apart from items brought as gifts.

Like I say, one not very good income coming in. Hopefully that will change in a few months and being able to find a job within school hours and hopefully the condescending attitude will cease - pigs may also fly.

[Jon the Hat]

I must have missed this bit when I last read a Tory manifesto

So Foxestalks very own David Cameron is now not opposed to the NHS and Social Security

Just remember it doesn't matter who you vote for the government always wins

Never was opposed to either mate, just the incompetent and expensive way they are implemented. I'm not in any way suggested the Tories have all the answers, just fed up to the back teeth with New Labour bullsh!t.

[Head Honcho]

You can scrub me off your little list there then.

Sky Tv? No we have freeview, cannot afford Sky

Car? Yes, live in a rural area with no transport

X-Box? No, don't have anything like that unless you count the Acorn Electron I had when I was kid

Watching Leicester? Err no about a handful of times last season, probably even less next. Definite luxuary

Second hand stuff and cast offs? Yes practically everything is in this house is apart from items brought as gifts.

Like I say, one not very good income coming in. Hopefully that will change in a few months and being able to find a job within school hours and hopefully the condescending attitude will cease - pigs may also fly.

I don't see why you feel the need to take things so personal.

My initial post wasn't having a pop at anyone in particular but for some reason you've taken it on yourself to defend your way of life.

You know as well as I do that my gripes have never been about people in your situation, but you must agree with me that we need to reverse the trend of families relying on benefits for the whole of their lifetime. Otherwise what kind of world is your daughter going to be living in when she's grown up?

[Daggers]

You should be able to support a family on one average income. If you can't then something is wrong.

What a lovely ideal Jon, but one that sailed out of port thirty years ago for the vast bulk of the population I think.

[Katy]

I don't see why you feel the need to take things so personal.

My initial post wasn't having a pop at anyone in particular but for some reason you've taken it on yourself to defend your way of life.

You know as well as I do that my gripes have never been about people in your situation, but you must agree with me that we need to reverse the trend of families relying on benefits for the whole of their lifetime. Otherwise what kind of world is your daughter going to be living in when she's grown up?

I'm just making sure you are not tarring EVERYONE with the same brush.

Everyone's situation is different so I don't know how it can be changed. When I get a little part time job when she goes to school, we will still be entitled to tax credits as we will both be on low incomes. How do you get round that? We could try and get along without credits but we will end up bankrupt.

I am entitled to claim income support but I don't so I don't officially have a penny to my name, apart from the odd card I sell. The tax credits that come in are for Stezzas wages and child tax credit.

[Head Honcho]

What a lovely ideal Jon, but one that sailed out of port thirty years ago for the vast bulk of the population I think.

Thats privatisation for ya

Oh yeh! Another great Tory invention

[Webbo]

Yep. I'm inclined to think that all large employers should be required to provide childcare places, or at least fund them somehow. It is a cost of employment and should be treated as such a heavily subsidised. But I don't think we should necessarily encourage people to work and leave their kids in Childcare. You should be able to support a family on one average income. If you can't then something is wrong. Their needs to be a choice.

The real problem is the amount of working mothers (I'm not having a go at anyone, my wife works and so did my mother).With 2 incomes coming in to the household there is more money in the system there fore pushing up inflation. For example more people can afford to buy a bigger house so it goes to highest bidder the price goes, needing a bigger mortgage and so cancelling out the extra income earned by the wife.

There are more and more of us working longer and longer hours and yet we all seem to be getting poorer. We farm our kids out to strangers who don't have the authority to discipline them therefore creating problem kids,

It would be nice if we could turn the clock back 30/40 years but that's never going to happen. What the solution is I just don't know.

[James.]

The real problem is the amount of working mothers (I'm not having a go at anyone, my wife works and so did my mother).With 2 incomes coming in to the household there is more money in the system there fore pushing up inflation.

That doesn't really make sense, economically speaking.