Do you really care whether Scotland Qualify?

[Head Honcho]

I never regard myself as british, i even hate having a british passport, i have no ties with scotland, wales or n.Ireland, so therefore in my eyes i am english....

that doesnt mean i hate the country's i listed, i admire them a lot but i am not british, that is my political stance on the whole situation!!

edit: No offence meant to the patriotic British people here!! Just my point of view...

Here's a fact! Like it or not you're British-Get over it!

[Darkzzz_]

Here's a fact! Like it or not you're British-Get over it!

Says who... I dont care what the passport says, i myself will never see myself nor address myself as british....

So dont bore me with your politics please...

[Head Honcho]

Says who... I dont care what the passport says, i myself will never see myself nor address myself as british....

So dont bore me with your politics please...

................as I said. Get over it

[Darkzzz_]

................as I said. Get over it

and as i said.... please

[Bert]

and as i said.... please

He does have a point though. Regardless of what you think, you are British.

[Darkzzz_]

He does have a point though. Regardless of what you think, you are British.

yes he does have a point.... and i respect anybody who has a point... but i dont care.... i am english... end of...

cheers for your input tho... it is always appreciated

[Finnegan]

Yeah cus no one from Wales, Scotland and Ireland ever made a penny from the Empire.

It was all those evil English and no good ever came from the Empire.

Not particularly the point at hand, but yes I'm not denying that. Talking about higher authorities, really, which is why I was quite careful to point out I've no issue with the average English Joe Bloggs on the straight and that's always been the case.

no good ever came from the Empire.

I didn't say that, either.

He does have a point though. Regardless of what you think, you are British.

[Kent Fox]

Not particularly the point at hand, but yes I'm not denying that. Talking about higher authorities, really, which is why I was quite careful to point out I've no issue with the average English Joe Bloggs on the straight and that's always been the case.

Well the point wasn't well made then, was it? What you said was:

But it does infuriate me, as someone whose fairly well read in my own history - but having been educated largely in England (certainly in my teens and up) that the British, or at least, the English have a habit of sweeping the evil of The Empire under the carpet.

Which doesn't mention "higher authorities".

I grant that yuo are certainly more knowledgable on Welsh history than I ever really care to be, and my English history was a long, long time ago. However, there was always / often (delete as applicable) a sense of pride at our Empire.

At that time / those times, we were as ruthless as we needed to be and certainly no less ruthless than other countries / powers. So what we acheived, we might have acheived through power.

I understand what you are saying, Finners and I am not having a dig (much), but anti-English is anti-English - whatever / whoever your argument is aimed at.

[Milky]

I didn't say that, either.

sound familiar?

[Finnegan]

I'd consider the government a higher authority, it's the government that select the national curriculum is it not?

I appreciate if you read what you've just put in quotes, you can draw the context you've chosen - but given that I was largely talking about the education system I think you're possibly, intentionally misquoting me there.

Though I confess that might have been poorly worded.

sound familiar?

I'm still awaiting your answer, Thracian Milky Joe. How long have you lived in Scotland, if at all?

[Head Honcho]

I'd consider the government a higher authority, it's the government that select the national curriculum is it not?

I appreciate if you read what you've just put in quotes, you can draw the context you've chosen - but given that I was largely talking about the education system I think you're possibly, intentionally misquoting me there.

Though I confess that might have been poorly worded.

I'm still awaiting your answer, Thracian Milky Joe. How long have you lived in Scotland, if at all?

Finnegan did you just hear Sosban Fach being murdered on Children in Need? I suppose it was for charity

[Finnegan]

Finnegan did you just hear Sosban Fach being murdered on Children in Need? I suppose it was for charity

! No I didn't, I bet Ray'll be turning in his grave, bless him. I don't really watch Children in Need if I can avoid it.

What was it? Little children's choir?

[Milky]

I'm still awaiting your answer, Thracian Milky Joe. How long have you lived in Scotland, if at all?

That's irrelevant. I have eyes, ears and a mouth.

[Head Honcho]

! No I didn't, I bet Ray'll be turning in his grave, bless him. I don't really watch Children in Need if I can avoid it.

What was it? Little children's choir?

No it was a bunch of celebs who'd been trying to learn Welsh!

Rhod Gilbert and Simon Weston among them. It was quite poignant because Ray had been Simon Weston's mentor for much of it

[Finnegan]

That's irrelevant. I have eyes, ears and a mouth.

You can be as silly as you like, sunshine. I'm read enough to back up what I'm saying - whether you agree with it or not.

If you're going to make sweeping generalisations about the ENTIRE Scottish society, I'd expect at least a shred of evidence. And I'm not talking about the odd moaning Jock being interviewed on Soccer AM or Football Focus saying they hope England lose at football.

Edit for Honcho: Awwwh, shit. Sounds a bit woeful, then. I do love a bit of Rhod Gilbert though so he's partially forgiven. Should have had Bryn on there! Or Churchy and her jugs.

[Kent Fox]

I'd consider the government a higher authority, it's the government that select the national curriculum is it not?

I appreciate if you read what you've just put in quotes, you can draw the context you've chosen - but given that I was largely talking about the education system I think you're possibly, intentionally misquoting me there.

Though I confess that might have been poorly worded.

I was not possibly or intentionally misquoting you at all and weel you know it

You made no reference to your point being about the education system. You are twisting your own posts to suit whoever takes you on in a discussion.

No need to get all defensive just because you can't put your point across succinctly enough for everyone.

Like I said, I am not having a go but you are the first to jump on someone's back, calling them 'son' and the like in a very arrogant manner. I do not dispute your intellectual knowledge on whatever history floats your boat, but you cannot criticise people for their opinions just because they don't agree with you.

Like someone else pointed out, you do have a nasty side (pot, kettle, black ) but it's the way you twist your own posts to suit that winds me up,mate.

Say what you want in reply but I'm off now as I have better things to do than listen to the rant you are about to have back at me.

[Kent Fox]

You can be as silly as you like, sunshine. I'm read enough to back up what I'm saying - whether you agree with it or not.

If you're going to make sweeping generalisations about the ENTIRE Scottish society, I'd expect at least a shred of evidence. And I'm not talking about the odd moaning Jock being interviewed on Soccer AM or Football Focus saying they hope England lose at football.

There you go - another piece of arrogance!! Is his name "sunshine"? Read that line again, Finners and try and see how people read it. It's not good.

And you made a generalisation about the English as an ENTIRE society, and that is ok?? The point that we are not as hated as we like to think we are...

Where is YOUR shred of evidence to back that up??

[Milky]

You can be as silly as you like, sunshine. I'm read enough to back up what I'm saying - whether you agree with it or not.

If you're going to make sweeping generalisations about the ENTIRE Scottish society, I'd expect at least a shred of evidence. And I'm not talking about the odd moaning Jock being interviewed on Soccer AM or Football Focus saying they hope England lose at football

alright Johnny McMastermind

I've been reading aswell:

But will celebration of the union make Scots feel more British? Or will the blaze of the tartans and the skirl of the pipes reawaken emotions that lie buried in every Scottish breast, the old grudge against England and the dream of freedom?

[Milky]

There you go - another piece of arrogance!! Is his name "sunshine"? Read that line again, Finners and try and see how people read it. It's not good.

And you made a generalisation about the English as an ENTIRE society, and that is ok?? The point that we are not as hated as we like to think we are...

Where is YOUR shred of evidence to back that up??

That's a good point.

[Thracian]

I really don't give a toss. As a country to visit I love Scotland for lots of reasons and have thoroughly enjoyed my times there including the people I've met and the hospitality received.

But I wouldn't feel any sort of allegiance to Scotland in a sporting sense. I'm English. And even though I find it hard to feel enthusiastic about England's generally lacklustre football they are my national team and no-one else offers an alternative.

It's not that I wish Scotland to lose or be eliminated. I don't care one way or the other.

But I do feel ashamed about England.

[Finnegan]

You made no reference to your point being about the education system.

I don't need to. You can go back and read it.

And you made a generalisation about the English as an ENTIRE society, and that is ok?? The point that we are not as hated as we like to think we are...

]Where is YOUR shred of evidence to back that up??

Again, go back and read. I was happy to site example. I'm sure we can go and poll someone other nation's football forums and go see whether or not they hate the English. Or if you meant that the other way round and are suggesting I'm making sweeping generalisations about "English society as a whole" believing everyone hates them; I'll quote myself (in full) here and you can tell me whether you think I'm being unfair. I said:

"I think there's this huge culture in England, especially in sport, to really, really play on the fact that you think the whole world hates you."

Where's the sweeping generalisation? I said there's a sizable culture in the sport, and I feel there is. I'd be surprised to hear you disagree. You're going to honestly, straight faced, deny that it's pretty common to hear English sporting fans bemoaning the belief that "everyone" in sport is out to get them? It's almost part of the English character in sport, that sort of, everyone's-out-to-get-us-but-we-don't-care sort of attitude. I'm not necessarily meaning that as an insult, just as a commentary on what I've observed... whilst living in England.

My point here is that Milky seems to want to belittle and bemoan the Scots attitude with his "The Scottish just annoy me a bit now. The grudge they hold against us is getting really dull." to which he was happy to state: "But i wasn't talking about the football rivalry, i was refering to society as a whole."

Now if he'd have stuck to his argument on the football (which was making him look like the dullard) he'd have at least had a leg to stand on, IMO. I mean I'm guessing he knows a fair amount about football to be here. I live in England, that's my qualification for making statements on English culture. Don't like it? Do one. Does Milky or has he ever lived in Scotland? What position is he in to give his commentary on Scots culture and their society "as a whole?" By what he sees in the ENGLISH media? That's all I'm asking.

And yes, yes I am arrogant. Don't like it? Stop responding, I'll soon get bored and stop pulling your short and curlies.

[Milky]

I live in England, that's my qualification for making statements on English culture.

Why exactly?

So you know the culture in the North East? Or any other region for that matter.

The only was you can know English culture as a whole is surely through the media.

[Finnegan]

Have you resorted to pedantry already? Christ alive, matey, it's only page five. Where's Kent Fox gone?

[Milky]

Have you resorted to pedantry already? Christ alive, matey, it's only page five. Where's Kent Fox gone?

So how long do you have to live somewhere to become "qualified"?

[Finnegan]

I don't think there's set guidelines. But I'm pretty sure you can't, having never lived in Scotland, make a statement telling me what Scots "society as a whole" is like.

Why are you arguing this? Am I not stating the obvious? Are you THIS bored?