Latest Fans Consultative Committee Minutes

[Hullfox]

Milan or who ever from the club reads this this does not happen, and young people will leave the fanbase as the club offers nothing to teenagers in the way of entertainment.

I cannot see that teenagers will leave the club because of the half time entertainment being shit. They'll disappear because the whole day is not enjoyable/is too expensive/other priorities take over. there will always be a natural wastage. What they hope for though is that if and when the person is ready to come back, they come back to City

I think there is a big gap which unless LCFC see some success the 16-30 age groups have no reason to "waste" their money on the football, as it offers them so little these days.

KF, I don't know what you're actually getting at here. Are you saying that because the success of the 90's is not being repeated, people (including you) will stop coming? When you say "these days", what has actually gone? I'm sure that no-one on here would argue that we played attractive football last season but I reckon that throughout the campaign we got more people through the gates at The Walkers than would have fitted in Filbert Street on all but two or three occasions, that has to be down to something other than success. (And it's not the half time entertainment)

I am like many in this age group & on here who feel that I am being frozen out of football by those who run the club. I did not attend the Lincoln game as the area in which I choose to stand was not open. I have heard many others who stand along side me say that If L or K was ever closed then they would not go anymore. Proof enough for me that fans like me (just normal people who enjoy a song) are not willing to continue to pay for something which they do not enjoy purely for the "love" of our club.

When have we ever been deemed "inclusive" by the club? When have fans of any club? To not go to the Lincoln match because you couldn't go into L Block is a bit silly. To not go because it was the JPT is understandable.

[Guest]

It sounds to business like though, i know we are a business but i dont like to look at it like that

There is an assumption that "proper" fans will go to games regardless, it's the ditherers and newbies they are looking to woo into the stadium. Extremely presumptuous. There will come a point where the "proper" fans will become disenchanted, and stop going. Football's popularity is cyclical. It's been on a high for too long, and for a number of reasons, I can see the bubble bursting. That's when football clubs will learn that they shouldn't have ignored the "proper" fans.

I have used inverted commas for a reason. The intention isn't to offend, just to make a point.

[Simi]

willy puller.

I don't know how someone who has no emotional pull with the club can make a decsion and a statement like that?

It just shows that the club really do not care about the supporters when they have a businessman making a decsion which a fair number of fans disagree with.

I hate these meetings, I've been to one before and know exactly what the majority of people are like.

[Guest]

I hate these meetings, I've been to one before and know exactly what the majority of people are like.

I am glad I am still involved, to be honest. At least there's some hope.

[davieG]

I am glad I am still involved, to be honest. At least there's some hope.

“It's not the despair. I can cope with the despair. It's the hope.”

[Aeropars]

YOu know what winds me up is the whole DJ/compere thing. I'm an ex DJ/Producer/SOund technician and the whole setup is totally crap!

Inconsistent volumes of music, no verbal presentation, he'll cut music off directly and then speak (ever heard of a fade?!) and the goal music just sounds like its been randomly paused before the (du du du du bit) kicks in.

I coudl really do a much better job... it woudl sound a lot more professional and not like some amature with a tape deck has done it.

[Kilworthfox]

I cannot see that teenagers will leave the club because of the half time entertainment being shit. They'll disappear because the whole day is not enjoyable/is too expensive/other priorities take over. there will always be a natural wastage. What they hope for though is that if and when the person is ready to come back, they come back to City

KF, I don't know what you're actually getting at here. Are you saying that because the success of the 90's is not being repeated, people (including you) will stop coming? When you say "these days", what has actually gone? I'm sure that no-one on here would argue that we played attractive football last season but I reckon that throughout the campaign we got more people through the gates at The Walkers than would have fitted in Filbert Street on all but two or three occasions, that has to be down to something other than success. (And it's not the half time entertainment)

When have we ever been deemed "inclusive" by the club? When have fans of any club? To not go to the Lincoln match because you couldn't go into L Block is a bit silly. To not go because it was the JPT is understandable.

I never mentioned half time entertainment. I said the whole day is not entertaining, that is why people will not continue to come anymore.

We attracted almost 18,600 today.

I am not sitting in the west stand, it is quiet enough in L let alone the other side. If those at LCFC believe that I am paying extra for something that I do not enjoy then they are mistaken. It has little to do with it being the JPT, I would have liked to have watched Lincoln (local, not seen them before etc) but I want to watch them my way or not at all so I did not go. I am fully aware of what I enjoy, even if that is difficult for others to understand, I am comfortable with my choices.

On the whole I think you may have responded to something I have not written or read my post from "another point of view" in which I believe you have misunderstood me (if not apologies)? What I am saying is that the club believe that because I have been a fan since 89/90 then I will continue to turn up just because I feel I have to as it is what I do as a fan who cares. This is not the case anymore! The club have taken almost every part of what I feel is enjoyable about a football match from the match experience. I was delighted that when we scored yesterday that it seemed to take 5-8 seconds for that awful music to start, it really was a lovely change. This is 1 example of how I believe the "day" has changed from a few years ago.

I feel alienated. If I had not watched LCFC since I was 5/6 when my dad took me I would have no affinity towards LCFC. I can see no reason why any kid off their own back would go and watch LCFC anymore! If I wanted to jump around and dance I would go to a party and I would not have to be told "within reason" how to behave, how my posture should be, where & when I can drink, I would not have the threat of being judged just because of where I was and the posture I took also. I am an individual, not a number, my views, opinions and actions are changing towards LCFC. LCFC could soon become like an ex-girlfriend to me! Yes LCFC has its appeal and charms, we have many memories to share and we know each other so well, but it looks like we are heading in different directions which neither of us likes.

[Hullfox]

I never mentioned half time entertainment. I said the whole day is not entertaining, that is why people will not continue to come anymore.

I still do not understand what has got worse for you. Assuming that you are not expecting LCFC to entertain you from the moment that you get up, cook you breakfast, give you a lift to the pub and get the first round in, all they can do is keep you entertained whilst you are in the ground. The only thing that has changed over recent seasons is that the quality of football and the results have improved. This cannot be a bad thing.

We attracted almost 18,600 today.

We are in Division 3, I am not sure what yout point is here. It is almost the exact same attendance for the opening game of the 2001/2002 season - we were in the Premiership

I am not sitting in the west stand I want to watch them my way or not at all so I did not go.

The club made the decision that they would open the main stand only for home fans. This was obviously done for commercial reasons and meant that I too was unable to sit in my usual seat. I personally did not see it as a problem and went to the match. You are of course entitled to take your stance.

What I am saying is that the club believe that because I have been a fan since 89/90 then I will continue to turn up just because I feel I have to as it is what I do as a fan who cares. This is not the case anymore! The club have taken almost every part of what I feel is enjoyable about a football match from the match experience. I was delighted that when we scored yesterday that it seemed to take 5-8 seconds for that awful music to start, it really was a lovely change. This is 1 example of how I believe the "day" has changed from a few years ago.

I'm not being funny here Tom but the club do not believe or care anything about you or your continued support. They don't care how long you have supported them. Similarly they do not care about the number of miles me and other foxiles put in across a season. Whilst we've all watched shit served up by various boards and management teams, the fan base like the people at the club have been a moving feast.

When the goal went in and the music started, I looked round the ground and a massive majority of people were joining in with the music, even in L Block.

I feel alienated. If I had not watched LCFC since I was 5/6 when my dad took me I would have no affinity towards LCFC. I can see no reason why any kid off their own back would go and watch LCFC anymore! If I wanted to jump around and dance I would go to a party and I would not have to be told "within reason" how to behave, how my posture should be, where & when I can drink, I would not have the threat of being judged just because of where I was and the posture I took also. I am an individual, not a number, my views, opinions and actions are changing towards LCFC. LCFC could soon become like an ex-girlfriend to me! Yes LCFC has its appeal and charms, we have many memories to share and we know each other so well, but it looks like we are heading in different directions which neither of us likes.

As I said earlier, the fan base is a moving feast. People's priorities change and they no longer turn up to watch games for a period of time. I myself stopped attending every game in favour of playing but I came back and that's what all clubs know - very rarely do fans change allegiance. Leicester City is in the blood for us all and if you choose to stop going, you'll still look out for the results and if and when you return to attending games, there's a fairly high probability that it will be at Leicester.

I seem to remember that some time back I posted how alienated I felt about things and was thinking about not going any more. A lot of this was based upon the standard of football being served up. Whilst you may be falling out with LCFC, rather like an ex girlfriend the club might be without someone in her life for a while but regardless of how ugly she/the club is, someone else will take your place in the fullness of time.

[Kilworthfox]

I still do not understand what has got worse for you. Assuming that you are not expecting LCFC to entertain you from the moment that you get up, cook you breakfast, give you a lift to the pub and get the first round in, all they can do is keep you entertained whilst you are in the ground. The only thing that has changed over recent seasons is that the quality of football and the results have improved. This cannot be a bad thing.

We are in Division 3, I am not sure what yout point is here. It is almost the exact same attendance for the opening game of the 2001/2002 season - we were in the Premiership

The club made the decision that they would open the main stand only for home fans. This was obviously done for commercial reasons and meant that I too was unable to sit in my usual seat. I personally did not see it as a problem and went to the match. You are of course entitled to take your stance.

I'm not being funny here Tom but the club do not believe or care anything about you or your continued support. They don't care how long you have supported them. Similarly they do not care about the number of miles me and other foxiles put in across a season. Whilst we've all watched shit served up by various boards and management teams, the fan base like the people at the club have been a moving feast.

When the goal went in and the music started, I looked round the ground and a massive majority of people were joining in with the music, even in L Block.

As I said earlier, the fan base is a moving feast. People's priorities change and they no longer turn up to watch games for a period of time. I myself stopped attending every game in favour of playing but I came back and that's what all clubs know - very rarely do fans change allegiance. Leicester City is in the blood for us all and if you choose to stop going, you'll still look out for the results and if and when you return to attending games, there's a fairly high probability that it will be at Leicester.

I seem to remember that some time back I posted how alienated I felt about things and was thinking about not going any more. A lot of this was based upon the standard of football being served up. Whilst you may be falling out with LCFC, rather like an ex girlfriend the club might be without someone in her life for a while but regardless of how ugly she/the club is, someone else will take your place in the fullness of time.

It's not about the football on the pitch at all! I have little to complain about as we are winning usually.

It's about football in general these days. LCFC (I feel) are pandering to popular, political and commercial propaganda. The way that football is moving is making me feel disheartened. The prices, the wages, the clubs going out of business, the fans being the last considered, it's getting all too much for me.

It's about as exciting to me as listening to sky bleat on about the "massive" match between Chelsea and Man U this weekend (just an example) with some powerful music and a boring press conference clip to rouse me into thinking that I watch football for the off the field drama rather than what happens on the pitch.

I am starting to think that at 24 I am a footballing Dinosaur, what I enjoy is not popular anymore, so I had better do something else, maybe play who knows? The club may not care about me on my own, but "if" there are many more who feel like I do... then they may wish to re-consider what impact their decisions which relate to a match day experience are making on their bottom line now that "the fans" are the clubs only revenue.

[Hullfox]

It's not about the football on the pitch at all! I have little to complain about as we are winning usually.

It's about football in general these days. LCFC (I feel) are pandering to popular, political and commercial propaganda. The way that football is moving is making me feel disheartened. The prices, the wages, the clubs going out of business, the fans being the last considered, it's getting all too much for me.

It's about as exciting to me as listening to sky bleat on about the "massive" match between Chelsea and Man U this weekend (just an example) with some powerful music and a boring press conference clip to rouse me into thinking that I watch football for the off the field drama rather than what happens on the pitch.

I am starting to think that at 24 I am a footballing Dinosaur, what I enjoy is not popular anymore, so I had better do something else, maybe play who knows? The club may not care about me on my own, but "if" there are many more who feel like I do... then they may wish to re-consider what impact their decisions which relate to a match day experience are making on their bottom line now that "the fans" are the clubs only revenue.

I've seen you on the pitch Tom, don't play.

[davieG]

It's not about the football on the pitch at all! I have little to complain about as we are winning usually.

It's about football in general these days. LCFC (I feel) are pandering to popular, political and commercial propaganda. The way that football is moving is making me feel disheartened. The prices, the wages, the clubs going out of business, the fans being the last considered, it's getting all too much for me.

It's about as exciting to me as listening to sky bleat on about the "massive" match between Chelsea and Man U this weekend (just an example) with some powerful music and a boring press conference clip to rouse me into thinking that I watch football for the off the field drama rather than what happens on the pitch.

I am starting to think that at 24 I am a footballing Dinosaur, what I enjoy is not popular anymore, so I had better do something else, maybe play who knows? The club may not care about me on my own, but "if" there are many more who feel like I do... then they may wish to re-consider what impact their decisions which relate to a match day experience are making on their bottom line now that "the fans" are the clubs only revenue.

I think it's well known that your age group is the smallest demographic, least ways compared to recent history. I believe this to be part of their and football's 'Strategic Match Day Experience' as I'm sure they view you and your ilk (age wise) as a problem area. A group that is more likely to stand, be rowdy, swear and generally make a nuisance of yourselves thus increasing the need for extra stewarding/policing and in their eyes causing problems they don't want.

The downside of course is that this is the same group that by and large creates the 'natural' atmosphere at football matches and this is what is missing, they're obviously trying to replace it with a contrived atmosphere, goal music and flags etc. As Hullfox implies or at least i think he does they're also relying on the fact that if you do leave you'll return one day when perhaps these activities are no longer an essential requirement for your matchday experience.

Well that's how I perceive it.

[ThorpeAstleyFox]

Soapbox time...

...First up: young fans. I went to my first game in (I think) 1987 at the age of nine (we beat Charlton 1-0 with an Alan Smith goal from a Steve Lynex corner flicked on by Ian Wilson if anyone wnats to check the year!). Between the ages of 12-15 I was a regular supporter and would often go with a bunch of mates as nobody in my family is particularly a football fan. This used to cost £3 and was covered by my pocket money. By my calculations that should place a matchday ticket for a teenager at around £4.50 today due to inflation - alas it is considerably more! Once tickets for young fans get above £10 then I think that you risk losing them - this makes the whole "matchday experience" cost close to £17 with bus fare and a McDonald's. Simply put, many teenagers would rather spend this money on a CD. On a seperate note when I was at school there were regularly tickets given out for Leicester City (aswell as for Tigers, Leicester Riders and cricket) to students who were keen on the respective sports - this rarely happens nowadays.

Second: Goal Music. The club have us over a barrel on this one - as long as people dance to the music it will stay and people will always dance to the music (including myself) if it is there - even if they don't enjoy it! This is a simple case of going along with the crowd (or mob mentality if you prefer). The online survey is rightly dismissed as the sample is both too small a proportion of the fan base and heavily biased. The only fair way to settle the issue is to alternate for a few games between having goal music and having no music - then ask the fans to vote (coloured cards on seats at half-time work a treat).

Third: "Matchday Experience". The atmosphere in the Walkers is dyer and I truly believe that this is due to the following reasons:

1) The club positioning "the new kop" at the opposite end of the stadium to the away fans - and putting the family stand next to them instead! Why would you do that?

2) Not being allowed to stand.

3) Crap football on show.

4) Poltical correctness - most of the songs which I enjoy singing I think would be frowned upon by the PC masses.

In short, I want to stand within ten metres of the away fans, singing insulting songs whilst watching LCFC play like Brazil! Don't take the "insulting songs" comment too seriously - I want the away fans to recipricate in kind and the winners at the end of the 90 minutes to leave with the bragging rights (and no violence!).

Rant over!

[Kilworthfox]

Soapbox time...

...First up: young fans. I went to my first game in (I think) 1987 at the age of nine (we beat Charlton 1-0 with an Alan Smith goal from a Steve Lynex corner flicked on by Ian Wilson if anyone wnats to check the year!). Between the ages of 12-15 I was a regular supporter and would often go with a bunch of mates as nobody in my family is particularly a football fan. This used to cost £3 and was covered by my pocket money. By my calculations that should place a matchday ticket for a teenager at around £4.50 today due to inflation - alas it is considerably more! Once tickets for young fans get above £10 then I think that you risk losing them - this makes the whole "matchday experience" cost close to £17 with bus fare and a McDonald's. Simply put, many teenagers would rather spend this money on a CD. On a seperate note when I was at school there were regularly tickets given out for Leicester City (aswell as for Tigers, Leicester Riders and cricket) to students who were keen on the respective sports - this rarely happens nowadays.

Second: Goal Music. The club have us over a barrel on this one - as long as people dance to the music it will stay and people will always dance to the music (including myself) if it is there - even if they don't enjoy it! This is a simple case of going along with the crowd (or mob mentality if you prefer). The online survey is rightly dismissed as the sample is both too small a proportion of the fan base and heavily biased. The only fair way to settle the issue is to alternate for a few games between having goal music and having no music - then ask the fans to vote (coloured cards on seats at half-time work a treat).

Third: "Matchday Experience". The atmosphere in the Walkers is dyer and I truly believe that this is due to the following reasons:

1) The club positioning "the new kop" at the opposite end of the stadium to the away fans - and putting the family stand next to them instead! Why would you do that?

2) Not being allowed to stand.

3) Crap football on show.

4) Poltical correctness - most of the songs which I enjoy singing I think would be frowned upon by the PC masses.

In short, I want to stand within ten metres of the away fans, singing insulting songs whilst watching LCFC play like Brazil! Don't take the "insulting songs" comment too seriously - I want the away fans to recipricate in kind and the winners at the end of the 90 minutes to leave with the bragging rights (and no violence!).

Rant over!

same here

[Daggers]

the club do not believe or care anything about you or your continued support.

Them having made it semi-official is a bit of a sickener and hearing prospective plans for those of us in L1 adds yet more distance between us and those who currently run the club. Rather than being not catered for we are at the point where the club actively want us out of the ground so that they can improve the matchday experience for those remaining and (for what they believe to be) the new cash rich supporters who will be enticed in.

This isn't about the football, it's about feeling out of place and time ,alienated from a game that we believed belonged to us and not to those who would buy and sell it. It's about a fight for the soul of the sport, a fight that was lost long ago.

The trouble that those who would desire to package match-based events dripping with matchday experience have not considered who will pay their salaries when those who are being thrust out of the game have gone and when the team isn't winning: there may have been 16,000 dancing to Chelsea Dagger yesterday but how many will go "Doo doo doo!" once we hit a period of defeats or if we fail to achieve promotion? How many are going to keep returning to a stadium devoid of noise and atmosphere?

Effectively, the club has told us that it can shit on our opinions as we'll always be back, I think the club is dangerously wrong in this assumption.

[Hullfox]

Them having made it semi-official is a bit of a sickener and hearing prospective plans for those of us in L1 adds yet more distance between us and those who currently run the club. Rather than being not catered for we are at the point where the club actively want us out of the ground so that they can improve the matchday experience for those remaining and (for what they believe to be) the new cash rich supporters who will be enticed in.

This isn't about the football, it's about feeling out of place and time ,alienated from a game that we believed belonged to us and not to those who would buy and sell it. It's about a fight for the soul of the sport, a fight that was lost long ago.

The trouble that those who would desire to package match-based events dripping with matchday experience have not considered who will pay their salaries when those who are being thrust out of the game have gone and when the team isn't winning: there may have been 16,000 dancing to Chelsea Dagger yesterday but how many will go "Doo doo doo!" once we hit a period of defeats or if we fail to achieve promotion? How many are going to keep returning to a stadium devoid of noise and atmosphere?

Effectively, the club has told us that it can shit on our opinions as we'll always be back, I think the club is dangerously wrong in this assumption.

I am obviously missing something here. I wasn't aware that the club wanted anyone out of the ground.

Maybe the biggest mistake that anyone has made is to believe that the game belonged to them. It never has and it never will.

[davieG]

I am obviously missing something here. I wasn't aware that the club wanted anyone out of the ground.

Maybe the biggest mistake that anyone has made is to believe that the game belonged to them. It never has and it never will.

I don't think it's a case of specifically wanting one group or another out but they do have options on how they present the game, organise the crowd and control situations. In their own words 'they can't please all of the people' and this may be true in terms of 100% pleasing but they could strike a balance and settle for some of each but instead they seemed to have decided that the fans they most wish to please are the 'families' and this has been done at the expense of the 15 to 30ish group who favour things like:

Unreserved seating / standing

Standing

Being close to the away fans

Booing the opposition when they enter the pitch

A sense of rivalry with out being deemed a hooligan

Singing (including songs with the odd swear word in)

Pay on the gate

etc

Add all these up and that is a massive part of these people's matchday experience that has been obliterated and what is alienating them.

Unfortunately it's not just LCFC it's football in general and the higher up the leagues you go seemingly the worse it gets this is why they are getting so much more value from away games and in particular these lower league games as it reminds them of what they've been/are missing.

It's not just the Walkers Stadium that has become sterile the fans are gradually being cleansed as well.

[Webbo]

Unreserved seating / standing

Standing

Being close to the away fans

Booing the opposition when they enter the pitch

A sense of rivalry with out being deemed a hooligan

Singing (including songs with the odd swear word in)

Pay on the gate

Standing is not allowed by law it's nothing to do with the club but it's still tolerated in L1. As is booing the opposition and singing (including swear words).

As for unreserved seating some people like to know where they're sitting when they buy their ticket it doesn't make them any less fans.

Tbh I really don't know what the fuss is about.

[AoWW]

It's not just the Walkers Stadium that has become sterile the fans are gradually being cleansed as well.

I think they should introduce a 'fan wash' at the turnstyles to give this 15-30ish group of 'undesirables' a good scrub and washdown before they enter the ground and contaminate it. Dirty, grubby, smelly oiks.

[Daggers]

I am obviously missing something here. I wasn't aware that the club wanted anyone out of the ground.

Maybe the biggest mistake that anyone has made is to believe that the game belonged to them. It never has and it never will.

Not sure I can agree - historically, clubs always played a pivotal role within the local community and the game was very much part and parcel of the people who went to see it all the way through to the mid-80's. In order to save writing an essay I'll just say this period was very much the people's game.

Thatcher, violence and the inception of an elite tier bit away at this while the modern monied club owners have finally severed the relationship...which means I agree with you to a point that it not will return - until clubs start going tits up. Everything is cyclical so I will remain hopeful.

With regards the club - yup, you may have missed something

[davieG]

Standing is not allowed by law it's nothing to do with the club but it's still tolerated in L1. As is booing the opposition and singing (including swear words).

As for unreserved seating some people like to know where they're sitting when they buy their ticket it doesn't make them any less fans.

Tbh I really don't know what the fuss is about.

As I understand it standing itself is not illegal, the stadiums just have to have seats - bizarre maybe. Of course it's not just LCFC they never had an original thought for years but that doesn't excuse the treatment in general dished out to a certain section of the fans.

As for unreserved seating you fall into the same trap and come up with the same response as the club - you don't have to have unreserved seating through out the whole stadium. At Filbert St the Kop was unreserved seating and other areas were reserved as I remember - it's really not difficult if the will is there but as I've stated it's not.

[Hullfox]

Can somebody please explain to me the concept of "The People's Game". Is it down to ownership, perceived or real? I really don't understand if it's a concept or a reality and if it is real how it is measured and when The People's Game became someone else's game.

Thanking you in advance.

Yours confusedly

Tarquin Hullfox

[davieG]

Can somebody please explain to me the concept of "The People's Game". Is it down to ownership, perceived or real? I really don't understand if it's a concept or a reality and if it is real how it is measured and when The People's Game became someone else's game.

Thanking you in advance.

Yours confusedly

Tarquin Hullfox

I don't think it's ever been the people's game certainly not from an ownership perspective, not while I've been going; it's always been owned by business people although in the past they would have been local business people, people that had some affinity to their club.

I do think that it was predominately a 'working mans' game due to the vast majority of working men that watched it, that's my impression from who used to be in attendance, but even then there was a small % of the prawn sandwich/boardroom types in the main stand.

I guess what could be termed as a working man these days has changed so much since then, leisure time and how it is spent has changed I suspect that within the 'modern working class' there is much more emphasis on family inclusive type leisure. The role that woman play in society has changed massively, there were very few woman, if any on the terraces when I first started to attend.

[Father Ted]

When was this and when is the next one? Can anyone just turn up?

Also, why does it say, apologies - Raj Kumar (I'm assuming that's Raj off here...)

[Guest]

When was this and when is the next one? Can anyone just turn up?

Also, why does it say, apologies - Raj Kumar (I'm assuming that's Raj off here...)

It says at the start of the minutes.

It says at the end of the minutes.

No.

Yes it is, and he's apologising for being a twat.

[Corky]

There is an assumption that "proper" fans will go to games regardless, it's the ditherers and newbies they are looking to woo into the stadium. Extremely presumptuous. There will come a point where the "proper" fans will become disenchanted, and stop going. Football's popularity is cyclical. It's been on a high for too long, and for a number of reasons, I can see the bubble bursting. That's when football clubs will learn that they shouldn't have ignored the "proper" fans.

I have used inverted commas for a reason. The intention isn't to offend, just to make a point.

Yes, I quite agree.