Brown's Britain. They'll either tax it or nick it.

[The People's Hero]

Worse still, a World Economic Outlook Survey says the UK economy will shrink 4.1% this year and only grow by 0.4% next. Very reassuring. I'm glad my business isn't run on those lines cos I'd have been bankrupt.

Any companies who can't withstand a net 3.7% economy shinkage need to think very carefully about whether they should be in business anyway.

I had a woman try to buy some insurance last week, for a wool shop, it was under £300 a year, standard perils shop cover. She asked if she could pay monthly instalments. That's ridiculous. She shouldn't be in business.

[Thracian]

On the face of it maybe but the effect they had on me has always been fairly constant - they just change the ways they take the money off you.

If you're at the top or the bottom you notice the difference more but stuck in the lower mid earnings level it's pretty much the same except it gets greater with each year as they find more and more things to waste it on or different people to give it to.

No British government in modern history has ever taken this much. Or given so much away, or left us with so little or left us with so many more problems.

[davieG]

No British government in modern history has ever taken this much. Or left us with so little and with so many more problems.

That's because they are the latest, it's always been increasing I don't see the next government, without radical reforms doing any different. They don't seem to have that in mind. All they'll do is shift the inevitably increasing burden from one group to another.

[Alexikokopops]

How convenient it is. Use an argument without stats and there's an indignant demand for evidence. Use an argument with stats and people dismiss them. Basically an idealist will ignore anything that counters their beliefs or manipulate the information.

This country is in the worst peacetime mess it has been in for decades yet there are still swatches of socialists on here who refuse to accept it, believe it or condemn the godforsaken government they helped to elect.

Increase in burglaries? No. Everyone is lying. It must be from the Daily Mail.

Erm, I didn't dismiss them. I even explicitely said it wasn't necessarily the case this time. Working with statistics and in analysis every day I know how easy it is to skew them to say what you want to say. It was just a general point that I only bought up because some one else mentioned it. Like in the stories about cancer where newspapers indulge in a bit of scaremongering by saying "EATING BACON UPSIDE DOWN INCREASES THE CHANGES OF GETTING CANCER BY 20%!!!!". If you look at those further it can be something ridiculous like an extra one person in a thousand will get cancer if every person of those 1000 eats bacon upside down. I bought it up in the thread about how drinking hot tea can cause cancer too. I just find stats interesting, that's all.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if nicking was up. The economic state is shitty and the government had a part to play in that. Tell you what though, I'll let you get back to acusing me of being a socialist who voted for this government (even though I didn't) and sweeping everything under the carpet. I'll get back to doing some statistical analysis. I'm out.

[Thracian]

Any companies who can't withstand a net 3.7% economy shinkage need to think very carefully about whether they should be in business anyway.

I had a woman try to buy some insurance last week, for a wool shop, it was under £300 a year, standard perils shop cover. She asked if she could pay monthly instalments. That's ridiculous. She shouldn't be in business.

Many businesses now are trundling along more in hope than expectation and with margins very close to the line. Sometimes there's not an easy or obvious option.

Sometimes they are maintained for pride's sake or even for the sake of long-serving employees who would themselves be the victims of any closure (shades of the film Kinky Boots which featured a firm well known to my son).

People on here blandly talk about the attitudes of the supposedly rich but I've spoken to several business people who, faced with an unprofitable business are seriously disturbed by the very thought of having to lay of people they've worked closely with for years.

[Thracian]

Erm, I didn't dismiss them. I even explicitely said it wasn't necessarily the case this time. Working with statistics and in analysis every day I know how easy it is to skew them to say what you want to say. It was just a general point that I only bought up because some one else mentioned it. Like in the stories about cancer where newspapers indulge in a bit of scaremongering by saying "EATING BACON UPSIDE DOWN INCREASES THE CHANGES OF GETTING CANCER BY 20%!!!!". If you look at those further it can be something ridiculous like an extra one person in a thousand will get cancer if every person of those 1000 eats bacon upside down. I bought it up in the thread about how drinking hot tea can cause cancer too. I just find stats interesting, that's all.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if nicking was up. The economic state is shitty and the government had a part to play in that. Tell you what though, I'll let you get back to acusing me of being a socialist who voted for this government (even though I didn't) and sweeping everything under the carpet. I'll get back to doing some statistical analysis. I'm out.

I don't remember accusing you of being a socialist or even implying as much. But if I mistakenly conveyed that impression I readily apologise.

[The People's Hero]

Many businesses now are trundling along more in hope than expectation and with margins very close to the line. Sometimes there's not an easy or obvious option.

Sometimes they are maintained for pride's sake or even for the sake of long-serving employees who would themselves be the victims of any closure (shades of the film Kinky Boots which featured a firm well known to my son).

People on here blandly talk about the attitudes of the supposedly rich but I've spoken to several business people who, faced with an unprofitable business are seriously disturbed by the very thought of having to lay of people they've worked closely with for years.

I agree that that is sad, but it is hardly the point.

The economy shrinking is bad news and is part of a much wider (arguably global) phenomenon. Any businesses which exist on a knife edge though should really be having a hard look at themselves.

It sounds callous, I know.

[Alexikokopops]

I don't remember accusing you of being a socialist or even implying as much. But if I mistakenly conveyed that impression I readily apologise.

Reading your post I think I assumed it was aimed at Lisa and I because we were the ones mentioning about stats, and I took that assumption from there. I work in numbers not words I need a spreadsheet and some graphs to comfort me. Or an upside down bacon sarnie.

[l444ry]

Brown & Darling on the run - Seeking asylum in Corby!

Prime Minister Gordon Brown and his sidekick Alistair Darling have suddenly fled Downing St. arriving late at night in the exclusive Scottish Principality of Corby claiming that "it'd all gone pear shaped."

The pair are claiming "Asylum" in the affluent Scottish resort, seeking protection from a baying mob of Middle Class English People led by Thracian all wanting their tax back.

Mr.Rodden, landlord of the Kingfisher Drinking Club on the even more exclusive Exeter estate (known locally as the Green zone) said that he had a couple of rooms over the pub that they could have.

"I'm happy to supply them with as much Irn Bru and square sausage as they can consume during these turbulent times" exhalted the eloquent Rodden.

Authorities in Corby will be advising the ex-dictator and his chum on how to change their appearances - "The quickest way to change your physical appearance will of course be to get blinding drunk down "The Corby Candle" and then get into a fight over the obligatory "Fat Bird" in any of the town's many kebab shops" quipped the Mayor, helpfully.

The huge Scottish population will allow Messrs Brown and Darling to blend in although the've been warned to keep out of "The Grampian and Celtic FC Clubs" as they might not get the warm welcome they'd otherwise get in this pleasant sleepy Scottish Canton hidden amongst the rolling hills of North Northamptonshire.

Have you seen them? Were they really at "The Enemy Gig"?

[Webbo]

About the fall in burglaries. The fact is that there is very little worth stealing in peoples house any more because consumer goods have become so cheap. Who's going to pay £50 in a pub for a second hand DVD player when you buy a new 1 in ASDA for £25.

It seems that people of a criminal bent have turned their attention to mugging people for their mobile phones in stead.

[Guest]

About the fall in burglaries. The fact is that there is very little worth stealing in peoples house any more because consumer goods have become so cheap. Who's going to pay £50 in a pub for a second hand DVD player when you buy a new 1 in ASDA for £25.

It seems that people of a criminal bent have turned their attention to mugging people for their mobile phones in stead.

Mugging people for phones is a huge risk; if the victim is on contract, or if they know the IMEI number, their service provider can effectively kill the phone off.

It's stuff like ipods they are after.

[Ultra]

I agree that that is sad, but it is hardly the point.

The economy shrinking is bad news and is part of a much wider (arguably global) phenomenon.

This.

If it's really the fault of Brown, Darling and the rest of the "Marxists", how come Germany, the US and Japan are all going through the same crisis?

[Bellend Sebastian]

It's stuff like ipods they are after.

Or my mojo. People are always trying to steal that

[Thracian]

This.

If it's really the fault of Brown, Darling and the rest of the "Marxists", how come Germany, the US and Japan are all going through the same crisis?

Have I even once denied that there is a global economic crisis? No.

But I have also said many times that Brown and Co are not responsible for the rest of the world they are responsible for this bit. And have been for a long, long time.

The result has been disastrous with little Britain now standing an embarrassing and miserable third in the table of national debt. There are many countries whose debt levels are high but ours are utterly indefensible and are getting worse by the day.

In fact our debt is officially at a level that is so unsafe that we will soon have no creditworthiness left if it gets any worse.

In 12 months time you know and I know that still more hundreds of thousands will be out of work yet still our provenly corrupt and ceaselessly self-serving politicians refuse to even begin doing the things that might go at least some way to returning us to health.

In his latest speech at a Prince's Trust event, Gordon Brown said he remained committed to the values which defined New Labour in the 1990s.

"What we are about is aspiration, we are about helping people get on, we are about a giving people new chances, we are about helping people make the most of their potential. New Labour, that's what we're about". "It is a world of opportunity for all and responsibility by all."

What absolute bullshit.

Let him line up the 2.1 million already unemployed and ask them about the new chances they've had, how much their potential has been realised and what great opportunities have been put in front of them. And when he's done asking there'll be another queue waiting behind them.

Aspirations? Even now he doesn't get it. He and his government have made an art form of destroying incentive and stiffling aspirations, apart from the great efforts made on behalf of newcomers.

[Guest]

But I have also said many times that Brown and Co are not responsible for the rest of the world they are responsible for this bit. And have been for a long, long time.

So come on then, how could Britain have avoided the global economic downturn? Or in fact, who would have saved the day?

[Steven]

Having lived through several eras of Conservative, Labour, New Labour I frankly can't tell the difference except they seem to get more and more corrupt and self serving.

Vote Liberal. There is not point in voting for either of the two failed parties. I have done it for years.

[Webbo]

So come on then, how could Britain have avoided the global economic downturn? Or in fact, who would have saved the day?

But Mr Brown abolished boom and bust don't you remember?

He was happy enough to take the credit when we were going through a credit fueled boom but as soon as things go down the sh1tter it's the world's fault.

[Ultra]

Have I even once denied that there is a global economic crisis? No.

But I have also said many times that Brown and Co are not responsible for the rest of the world they are responsible for this bit. And have been for a long, long time.

The result has been disastrous with little Britain now standing an embarrassing and miserable third in the table of national debt. There are many countries whose debt levels are high but ours are utterly indefensible and are getting worse by the day.

Still the fourth biggest economy in the world, and with more than enough capacity to cope with the levels of debt.

In fact our debt is officially at a level that is so unsafe that we will soon have no creditworthiness left if it gets any worse.

In 12 months time you know and I know that still more hundreds of thousands will be out of work yet still our provenly corrupt and ceaselessly self-serving politicians refuse to even begin doing the things that might go at least some way to returning us to health.

That's because they are too cowardly to make the corporate sector - who were responsible both here and elsewhere for the current crisis - clear up the mess that they created. When a company like Tesco can make profits of £3BILLION and not pay a single penny of that in tax then the system is failing badly.

Aspirations? Even now he doesn't get it. He and his government have made an art form of destroying incentive and stiffling aspirations, apart from the great efforts made on behalf of newcomers.

Just because some racist fcukwit in the Mail or Express says this doesn't mean it's true..

[Ultra]

Vote Liberal. There is not point in voting for either of the two failed parties. I have done it for years.

I've seen LibDem administrations in "action".

It's not an experience I'd care to repeat any time soon.

[Thracian]

a) Still the fourth biggest economy in the world, and with more than enough capacity to cope with the levels of debt.

b) That's because they are too cowardly to make the corporate sector - who were responsible both here and elsewhere for the current crisis - clear up the mess that they created. When a company like Tesco can make profits of £3BILLION and not pay a single penny of that in tax then the system is failing badly.

c) Just because some racist fcukwit in the Mail or Express says this doesn't mean it's true..

a) Yes and that makes it worse. Having debt that was approaching 78% of GDP if GDP was £1 wouldn't be so bad but have such a huge debt and the fourth biggest economy is serious, pal. Especially when you know that the figures don't add up and it's going to get worse.

b) Failing badly? It is ludicrous. But who presides over that and who has been in a position to change it long before the consequences started to get desperate?

c) That comment wasn't lifted off anyone and if it were made in those publications I've not seen it. But I've no intention of raking over old ground.

PS: Totally agree about the Liberals.

[Flynny]

Have I even once denied that there is a global economic crisis? No.

But I have also said many times that Brown and Co are not responsible for the rest of the world they are responsible for this bit. And have been for a long, long time.

The result has been disastrous with little Britain now standing an embarrassing and miserable third in the table of national debt. There are many countries whose debt levels are high but ours are utterly indefensible and are getting worse by the day.

In fact our debt is officially at a level that is so unsafe that we will soon have no creditworthiness left if it gets any worse.

In 12 months time you know and I know that still more hundreds of thousands will be out of work yet still our provenly corrupt and ceaselessly self-serving politicians refuse to even begin doing the things that might go at least some way to returning us to health.

In his latest speech at a Prince's Trust event, Gordon Brown said he remained committed to the values which defined New Labour in the 1990s.

"What we are about is aspiration, we are about helping people get on, we are about a giving people new chances, we are about helping people make the most of their potential. New Labour, that's what we're about". "It is a world of opportunity for all and responsibility by all."

What absolute bullshit.

Let him line up the 2.1 million already unemployed and ask them about the new chances they've had, how much their potential has been realised and what great opportunities have been put in front of them. And when he's done asking there'll be another queue waiting behind them.

Aspirations? Even now he doesn't get it. He and his government have made an art form of destroying incentive and stiffling aspirations, apart from the great efforts made on behalf of newcomers.

Our debt needs to come down, certainly, but acting now to cut debt isn't related to unemployment figures in the slightest - in fact making cutbacks straight away would likely exacerbate the problem.

I've no faith in the labour government at all but what you've said above is a mish-mash of media (any media, mail or guardian)-stirred fears, not an argument or a point.

[Thracian]

Our debt needs to come down, certainly, but acting now to cut debt isn't related to unemployment figures in the slightest - in fact making cutbacks straight away would likely exacerbate the problem.

I've no faith in the labour government at all but what you've said above is a mish-mash of media (any media, mail or gIuardian)-stirred fears, not an argument or a point.

It wasn't meant to be. It was meant simply as a cry of frustration about the unworthiness of this disreputable and misguided Government and its continued existence. If they had any honour they'd fall on their paperknives.