Benji Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Conversely, though, couldn't it have aided us when we were going through the mire? I have no idea, I'm just speculating. More importantly, how the devil are you?
breadandcheese Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 The fact is the British people still want to be bribed with their own money, even when it has run out. (Quote from an article in the Times which I cannot be bothered to find). It's sadly very true, but not helped by politicians who are peddling lies on issues that the great majority of people know very little about in order to secure their vote. A case in point is VAT. All three major parties have denied having plans to increase VAT, but I'm quite convinced that we will see VAT up at 20% within a year whoever wins. The fact we haven't had a spending review by the current government in what is one of the most important times for our country is something that should shame the current administration and indeed politics.
breadandcheese Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Conversely, though, couldn't it have aided us when we were going through the mire? I have no idea, I'm just speculating. Not really. The response to this crisis has been mainly monetarist in it's nature (quantitative easing, exchanging junk bonds for collateral, etc). If we had been in the euro, then we would not have an independent monetary response, which up until now has helped tremendously.
Jon the Hat Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Anyone else starting to find the Lib Dems constant use of the words "the two old parties" really irritating? Particularly as by anyones measure the Liberal party is older than Labour if not the Tories.
Alan Johnson Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Johnson urges you to vote Lib Dem http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1269649/General-Election-2010-Lib-Dems-secret-plan-high-street-cannabis-cafes.html A.Johnson
Webbo Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 There's been a massive proliferation in the places you can get news from in recent years and that'll only increase as technology continues to develop. From places that have to charge(or rely on dwindling advertising revenue), from foreign backed media outlets or from bloggers.So you have a choice between increasingly irrelevant newspapers with shrinking budgets, organisations that are backed by who knows who or sad geeks that will print any old shit whether it's true or not.
FoxyPV Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Anyone else starting to find the Lib Dems constant use of the words "the two old parties" really irritating? Particularly as by anyones measure the Liberal party is older than Labour if not the Tories. Yes, it's the same as Clegg referring to himself as new/ different when he is a career politician like the rest of the them.
Jon the Hat Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Yes, it's the same as Clegg referring to himself as new/ different when he is a career politician like the rest of the them. When you think about it the whole argument boils down to "I was a complete nobody 3 weeks ago, Vote for me! (and please don't look to closely at my policies, I didn't write them and apart from electoral reform so I have a job for life hope never to implement any of them)"
davieG Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Anyone else starting to find the Lib Dems constant use of the words "the two old parties" really irritating? Particularly as by anyones measure the Liberal party is older than Labour if not the Tories. I should imagine it's only died in the wool tories and Labour voters that would be bothered, they all have their irritating repeat phrases.
davieG Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 When you think about it the whole argument boils down to "I was a complete nobody 3 weeks ago, Vote for me! (and please don't look to closely at my policies, I didn't write them and apart from electoral reform so I have a job for life hope never to implement any of them)" Only because he was ignored by the mainly Tory and Labour media, Cameron's no more of a somebody is he? It's funny seeing voters of one party getting uptight over another party's idiosyncrasies and being unable to see their own.
Jon the Hat Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Only because he was ignored by the mainly Tory and Labour media, Cameron's no more of a somebody is he? It's funny seeing voters of one party getting uptight over another party's idiosyncrasies and being unable to see their own. Perhaps you could tell me the repeitive phrases which Brown and Cameron have been using? I haven't noticed any particularly jarring ones. Cameron is certainly more of a somebody than Nick Clegg, he is leader of the opposition in our parliamentary system, in a major party. He was also elected to to lead his party in a genuine leadership contest, which is more than can be said for Gordon. I suspect you will also find he is very much on this up whereas Brown and Clegg have already seen the peak of thier political careers. I fully expect that last statement to come and bite me on the ass on Friday if I am wrong, and I shall eat my humble pie with a rictus Gordon Brown style grin on my face. On another note why is it do you think that the media mainly cover Labour and Conservative policies?
davieG Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Perhaps you could tell me the repeitive phrases which Brown and Cameron have been using? I haven't noticed any particularly jarring ones. Cameron is certainly more of a somebody than Nick Clegg, he is leader of the opposition in our parliamentary system, in a major party. He was also elected to to lead his party in a genuine leadership contest, which is more than can be said for Gordon. I suspect you will also find he is very much on this up whereas Brown and Clegg have already seen the peak of thier political careers. I fully expect that last statement to come and bite me on the ass on Friday if I am wrong, and I shall eat my humble pie with a rictus Gordon Brown style grin on my face. On another note why is it do you think that the media mainly cover Labour and Conservative policies? Because of the voting system of 1st past the post. Brown - fighting for Britain's future, like none of the others are? Cameron - going on about change, but it'll be more of the same conservative policies, no change there then. If you pull back you can hear them spouting the same old rhetoric when what we need is a revolution in Parliament, the voting system, less party political dogma and the I'm all right jack attitude of most politicians once they get embroiled into the system.
Flynny Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 There are those with such views in every party - though few would be stupid enough to voice them - but of you really want to see astark reason why we need radical change - and not just another version of Labour that the Liberals mostly represent - just study the following link. http://en.wikipedia....rcentage_of_GDP Look at the UK figure and consider not only the proportion of tax paid on income but how much worse it will be if our debt soar still further the percentage of tax taken gets still higher and the pound, in any case, begins to be worth even less than at present. People will soon be working as meanly-rewarded slaves for the Labour government and its irresponsible economics and idealism, completely devoid of incentive. That's exactly what the Marxists and communists who riddle the Labour party would like, of course. People reliant on and beholden to the State. Ours is much lower than I thought it would be! Most European nations of similar stature and provision tax more than us. And on top of this, we have a more developed welfare state which means that a percentage of that is given straight back as tax credits anyway. A weak pound is helpful during recession. Also Jon: - If the BBC is accused of having a left-wing bias by right-wingers and a right-wing bias by left-wingers. I'm sure it occasionally errs but it's only comparatively left-wing in comparison to the majority of the Tory-supporting press in this country. If you want actual left wing read the Guardian - the BBC is as close to impartial as flawed people are going to produce.
Guest DavidJCW Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 For those who haven't already, don't forget to take part in the Foxes Talk poll... sorry to keep plugging it, but it'd be good to see a large amount of members voting so we have a good representation of how things might (probably won't by you never know) go. http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=65817
Jon the Hat Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Because of the voting system of 1st past the post. Brown - fighting for Britain's future, like none of the others are? Cameron - going on about change, but it'll be more of the same conservative policies, no change there then. If you pull back you can hear them spouting the same old rhetoric when what we need is a revolution in Parliament, the voting system, less party political dogma and the I'm all right jack attitude of most politicians once they get embroiled into the system. The absolute last thing we need right now is a revolution in parliament. Uncertainty now will mean the cost of Government debt increasing, and longer and deeper cuts, and no doubt more tax rises. Surely Conservative policies are a change from the last 13 years? Me being a youngster I have spent most of my adult life under Labour, and I see a problem to which the Tories are the obvious solution - a bloated public sector and too much state interference in everyday life. I would like to see parliamentary reform if done in the right way, but we need to do it from a stable economic position. Now is not the time. And when the time is right, reform needs to mean more than alternating between Lab / Lib and Con / Lib governments instead of Labour and Conservative.
FoxyPV Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 Ours is much lower than I thought it would be! Most European nations of similar stature and provision tax more than us. And on top of this, we have a more developed welfare state which means that a percentage of that is given straight back as tax credits anyway. A weak pound is helpful during recession. Also Jon: - If the BBC is accused of having a left-wing bias by right-wingers and a right-wing bias by left-wingers. I'm sure it occasionally errs but it's only comparatively left-wing in comparison to the majority of the Tory-supporting press in this country. If you want actual left wing read the Guardian - the BBC is as close to impartial as flawed people are going to produce. This surely proves its impartiality. The Morning Star
Daggers Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 The BBC is notoriously liberal leaning, anti american and pro palestinian. You aren't stupid, Jon - but this is nothing more than groundless bullshit.
Webbo Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 You aren't stupid, Jon - but this is nothing more than groundless bullshit. You never say that to me. <_<
davieG Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 The absolute last thing we need right now is a revolution in parliament. Uncertainty now will mean the cost of Government debt increasing, and longer and deeper cuts, and no doubt more tax rises. Surely Conservative policies are a change from the last 13 years? Me being a youngster I have spent most of my adult life under Labour, and I see a problem to which the Tories are the obvious solution - a bloated public sector and too much state interference in everyday life. I would like to see parliamentary reform if done in the right way, but we need to do it from a stable economic position. Now is not the time. And when the time is right, reform needs to mean more than alternating between Lab / Lib and Con / Lib governments instead of Labour and Conservative. The problem is people will say the same thing if every thing is going well, it's like trying to introduce young players into a team there's never a right time so it rarely happens. I can see that it's a change for you but it's the same old stuff for me and that would be the case whoever got in because that's what our current system produces - no consensus because no one ever gets a real majority it's stale politics and that's why so many people don't bother to vote, they've seen it all the bullshitting, lying, self serving governments full of career politicians guaranteed a lucrative life time pension, no matter how long they've served and money for nothing directorships influencing governments/oppositions even if it's against the public interest.
Jon the Hat Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 The problem is people will say the same thing if every thing is going well, it's like trying to introduce young players into a team there's never a right time so it rarely happens. I can see that it's a change for you but it's the same old stuff for me and that would be the case whoever got in because that's what our current system produces - no consensus because no one ever gets a real majority it's stale politics and that's why so many people don't bother to vote, they've seen it all the bullshitting, lying, self serving governments full of career politicians guaranteed a lucrative life time pension, no matter how long they've served and money for nothing directorships influencing governments/oppositions even if it's against the public interest. Yes I do see that. Koeltsky has an intersting view... Vote LABOUR.. ? Hmm.
Guest DavidJCW Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 For those who haven't already, don't forget to take part in the Foxes Talk poll... sorry to keep plugging it, but it'd be good to see a large amount of members voting so we have a good representation of how things might (probably won't by you never know) go. http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=65817 For all those just coming in from work, above is the final Foxes Talk poll before election day. Please do take just two seconds to cast your vote.
Alexikokopops Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 More importantly, how the devil are you? I'm rather well thanks. Enjoying life in Twickenham. I've got quite used to the working-non-student life. And yourself? Not really. The response to this crisis has been mainly monetarist in it's nature (quantitative easing, exchanging junk bonds for collateral, etc). If we had been in the euro, then we would not have an independent monetary response, which up until now has helped tremendously. Fair enough!
coale39 Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 UK budget deficit 'set to outstrip Greece' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-budget-deficit-set-to-outstrip-greece-1963130.html
Shrenchel Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm Shits on the election debates anyway.
Guest Bilo Posted 5 May 2010 Posted 5 May 2010 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm Shits on the election debates anyway. Jesus, that's how all political differences should be solved in the future. I hate any cvnt from the BNP but if someone gobbed at me like that I don't think I'd be responsible for my actions either.
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