Babylon Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Couldn't agree more you definitely cannot compare Keane to Sousa. Well you can compare their first 8 games last year, see I just did. And Sousa wins on points, so despite everything you think Keane had going for him he had a slow start too. Yet Sousa, who has nothing going for him (according to some) won more points. Care to tell me why that is? Sousa needs to get his bloody act together and quick because it's not good enough, but all of this Sousa bashing is just laughable.
Kitchandro Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Ha ha so what promise did Keane show in his 8 games that we haven't here. In what way is Sousa oblivious to us not doing well? "I am committed to a long-term project at Leicester City, but to achieve this I know we must have short-term success"... sounds like a man well aware he needs to improve. Sousa did ok at Swansea and had a slow start their... so you could say he has previous also. I've not said anything about your Dave Jones point, it was a valid point. I highlighted the fact you had a go at someone for their logic not making sense, and then spouted the ridiculous line about Keanes results being better than Sousas... when in fact they were worse. Someone has to defend Sousa against your false results statement. If you want to make things up to suit your argument then know yourself out, but I won't be joining the bandwagon. Look this is not about Keane, as I said there is no comparison. But he didn't lose 6-1 to Portsmouth for a start. His tactical decisions and team selections couldn't possibly have been as bad as Sousa's have so far, especially in the last 2 league games. Sousa has failed to realise the glaringly obvious problems with our team. Tat is why he has picked the same formation and our defending has got worse. He also said he was proud of his players after we lost 6-1. Whatever you say about 'lost in translation', he could have said a number of other things. Plus if it was indeed lost in translation that will be problem when he's speaking to the players won't it? Again, Keane's results did not include a 6-1 defeat to the bottom side. They were narrow losses or draws. And Keane inherited a much worse team tha we have. And it's not just the results, Sousa is clearly worse than Keane. Again, I'd like to hear what positive things you have to say about Sousa. It's no good giving circumstancial evidence to suggest he should stay, such as 'O'Neill and Keane had a bad start' and 'it's only 8 games'. What real defence have you got for Sousa? I have seen enough in 8 games to conclude he's not the right man for the job.
Mack Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 I bet Norwich fans are now glad they sacked Gunn and replaced him with Lambert. See what I did there This
Fox92 Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Couldn't agree more you definitely cannot compare Keane to Sousa. Why can't you? One manager compared to another? So you can't ever say who the best manager in the league is or anything like that?
Kitchandro Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Why can't you? One manager compared to another? So you can't ever say who the best manager in the league is or anything like that? We are saying that they are not similar circumstances. There's no point talking about how Keane did at Ipswich because it is irrelevant to Sousa and the situation is different.
Babylon Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Look this is not about Keane, as I said there is no comparison. But he didn't lose 6-1 to Portsmouth for a start. His tactical decisions and team selections couldn't possibly have been as bad as Sousa's have so far, especially in the last 2 league games. You don't know what his decisions and team selections were, but they obviously weren't very good were they if he went 14 games without a win. Again, I'd like to hear what positive things you have to say about Sousa. It's no good giving circumstancial evidence to suggest he should stay, such as 'O'Neill and Keane had a bad start' and 'it's only 8 games'. What real defence have you got for Sousa? Coventry performance, Cardiff performace, Middlesborough performace, Palace second half, Reading second half... were all positive in what we were trying to do. Even if the outcome wasn't. Did we have anything positive to say about O'Neil or did Ipswich fans have anything positive to say about Keane. Because I don't remember people having many nice things to say about them. I will state for one last time... these things are brought up, not to say 'this is what's going to happen', because quite clearly that is foolish. But they are here to bring a bit of perspective to it, just to show it's not always as cut and dried as fans think it is. I have seen enough in 8 games to conclude he's not the right man for the job. The chances are we agree on all but a couple of points, one being how long is reasonable amount of time for a manager to be given before getting the chop. People need to realise that just because someone isn't as quick to wield the axe, doesn't mean they are a fan of the person in charge. If I think people are wrongly bashing him about something, then I will step in and say something no matter what my thoughts on the manager are. For what seems like the 1000th time, i've not been keen on him from the start. But he is here so there is nothing I can do, so I am going to stick to my beliefs in giving a manger a decent amount of time. I did it for every manager before him, and I will do it for every manager who comes after him.
Wymsey Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 So your point Babylon against Kitchandro is...
Kitchandro Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 You don't know what his decisions and team selections were, but they obviously weren't very good were they if he went 14 games without a win. Coventry performance, Cardiff performace, Middlesborough performace, Palace second half, Reading second half... were all positive in what we were trying to do. Even if the outcome wasn't. Did we have anything positive to say about O'Neil or did Ipswich fans have anything positive to say about Keane. Because I don't remember people having many nice things to say about them. I will state for one last time... these things are brought up, not to say 'this is what's going to happen', because quite clearly that is foolish. But they are here to bring a bit of perspective to it, just to show it's not always as cut and dried as fans think it is. The chances are we agree on all but a couple of points, one being how long is reasonable amount of time for a manager to be given before getting the chop. People need to realise that just because someone isn't as quick to wield the axe, doesn't mean they are a fan of the person in charge. If I think people are wrongly bashing him about something, then I will step in and say something no matter what my thoughts on the manager are. For what seems like the 1000th time, i've not been keen on him from the start. But he is here so there is nothing I can do, so I am going to stick to my beliefs in giving a manger a decent amount of time. I did it for every manager before him, and I will do it for every manager who comes after him. I'll give you Coventry performance and Cardiff performance. Boro first half. Second half we created very little. Didn't see Palace but we conceded 3 poor goals. Reading second half was shit, it only looked good because the first half was the worst I've ever seen (up until Friday second half) And still, only one league win. And can I point out, Coventry, Cardiff and Boro presented no attacking threat whatsoever. It's the defence that has been really concerning, as well as the spirit and belief. Not the passing style, though they should have mastered that by now. It shouldn't take this long to drum into them that it's all about movement and energy. That's basically what it is, it aint the rocket science people are making it out to be. And when it did work, why did we go backwards after the Cardiff game? Maybe cos he changed a winning team. And forget about how bad the start the other manager's had was, I have rarely seen a team go backwards so quickly. Like I said, Keane and O'Neill did not go nearly as backwards as Sousa has. BACKWARDS being the important word. This is not an average team at the bottom, it's a good team at the bottom showing no promise. Usually I'd agree, 8 games wouldn't be enough time, but I'm afraid this is the exception. You have to judge the time given to a manager on each individual situation.
Babylon Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 So your point Babylon against Kitchandro is... Have a read through the thread. Or, for the lazy (you)... a) Keanes results were not better than Sousas over 8 games, he yielded less points. END OF. b) It is perfectly reasonable to bring up past examples of managers having a poor start and turning it around. It serves to show it can be done. Of course circumstances are different, but why use past examples for anything if that's the case. Because no set of circumstances are ever exactly the same. c) We have shown some glimpes of promising football at times. d) We are both probably not keen on Sousa, but differ in how much time we believe is reasonable for someone to have a team doing what they want.
wurmer Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 WTF have Ipswich got to do with our situation? Stupid thread.
Babylon Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 I'll give you Coventry performance and Cardiff performance. Boro first half. Second half we created very little. Didn't see Palace but we conceded 3 poor goals. Reading second half was shit, it only looked good because the first half was the worst I've ever seen (up until Friday second half) And still, only one league win. And can I point out, Coventry, Cardiff and Boro presented no attacking threat whatsoever. It's the defence that has been really concerning, as well as the spirit and belief. Not the passing style, though they should have mastered that by now. It shouldn't take this long to drum into them that it's all about movement and energy. That's basically what it is, it aint the rocket science people are making it out to be. And when it did work, why did we go backwards after the Cardiff game? Maybe cos he changed a winning team. You did ask for positives and that's what I gave, so again don't confuse me listing them as to being blind to the negative!! I could you a list of them too!! Usually I'd agree, 8 games wouldn't be enough time, but I'm afraid this is the exception. You have to judge the time given to a manager on each individual situation. Some good and fair points!! And I completely agree about you have to judge on each individual situation. For me he has two games to get us out of the bottom three because being in there is unforgivable, and then he lives on a game to game basis for the next few after that. WTF have Ipswich got to do with our situation? Stupid thread.
Kitchandro Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 You did ask for positives and that's what I gave, so again don't confuse me listing them as to being blind to the negative!! I could you a list of them too!! Some good and fair points!! And I completely agree about you have to judge on each individual situation. For me he has two games to get us out of the bottom three because being in there is unforgivable, and then he lives on a game to game basis for the next few after that. Fair enough
J.Lisemore Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 That would make us go backwards even more. We've got to give Sousa time - It has took David Jones 5 years to build up a very good side at Cardiff. Last season Roy Keane was finding his feet and now look at Ipswich. Sacking the manager now wouldn't resolve our situation, and I am not even attracted to the managers that would even apply for the job. Not being funny but if Fred Flintstone was in charge, would you give him time?
Jackirius Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Not being funny but if Fred Flintstone was in charge, would you give him time? Well you are really arnt you...
Lord Fox Posted 27 September 2010 Posted 27 September 2010 Frankly i think everyone here would have been delighted with 15th place at the start of last season - Besides hull are currently sat in 15th managed by a certain NP, who's to say that wouldn't have been the case for us if he'd stayed here? And if that was the case would you accept it or would you be calling for his head? Continuity for one, we win league 1 – next season we finish in the pay offs so IMO we here moving in the right direction , also the players respected and wanted to play for NP, and with the current financial backing at the club I think NP would have spent it wisely, ( for me Abe and Waggy, all be it at a little bit more than I'd pay for him at this stage, are PS only good transfer business.) and moved us forward. we were so ,so close last season and only needed a little bit of fine tuning.
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