Tuition Fees

[dave the caveman]

No comments on the non-democratically elected business secretary's literal u-turn on the tuition fee issue, instead chosing to go ahead with plans that will see entire generations of our kids trapped in a lifelong debt cycle before they've even done a days work?

I've watched in horror during the last decade as the public have developed an increasing ability to turn a blind eye to obvious near-ciminal (and sometimes totally criminal) activity by the government but this just takes the buscuit. Vince Cable has no democratic right to make such a decision and the decision he has made will ruin lives. Forcing kids to take on massive debts and then charging them interest? Profiting from an enforced debt? It's unbelievable. And this from a guy whose party pledged not to increase, but rather reduce and ultimately remove tuition fees.

Why in the name of fook is this guy allowed to get away with such blatant and potentially devestating lies when nobody even voted him into power in the first place? Where else are people allowed to get away with this level of false advertising? Why is this not a criminal offence? Why can't the public see how much havoc this government is about to wreak. There will be nothing left of this country. Who is going to be the doctors, lawyers and engineers of tomorrow if nobody can afford an education? The only option we'll have is further mass immigration. This government does not care about you, me or anyone. Infact, they almost seem as if they're taking shots at us for FUN. Causing unnecessary damage just because they feel like it. They're an utter disgrace and the sooner the middle class takes to the streets the better.

[Tommy G]

No comments on the non-democratically elected business secretary's literal u-turn on the tuition fee issue, instead chosing to go ahead with plans that will see entire generations of our kids trapped in a lifelong debt cycle before they've even done a days work?

I've watched in horror during the last decade as the public have developed an increasing ability to turn a blind eye to obvious near-ciminal (and sometimes totally criminal) activity by the government but this just takes the buscuit. Vince Cable has no democratic right to make such a decision and the decision he has made will ruin lives. Forcing kids to take on massive debts and then charging them interest? Profiting from an enforced debt? It's unbelievable. And this from a guy whose party pledged not to increase, but rather reduce and ultimately remove tuition fees.

Why in the name of fook is this guy allowed to get away with such blatant and potentially devestating lies when nobody even voted him into power in the first place? Where else are people allowed to get away with this level of false advertising? Why is this not a criminal offence? Why can't the public see how much havoc this government is about to wreak. There will be nothing left of this country. Who is going to be the doctors, lawyers and engineers of tomorrow if nobody can afford an education? The only option we'll have is further mass immigration. This government does not care about you, me or anyone. Infact, they almost seem as if they're taking shots at us for FUN. Causing unnecessary damage just because they feel like it. They're an utter disgrace and the sooner the middle class takes to the streets the better.

So if you graduate and walk into a job as a GP earning £40k rising to £100k after a few years then earn that amount for a good 30 years - you shouldn't have a large debt?

I couldn't give a fook if they stuck it up to £12k a year, it will all be relative still if everyone is paying the same

Might put off some people doing courses like a BA in ''Magazine studies with pathways to Healthcare'' esq degree. because they want a free ride for 3 years on the piss...

I think your post is more geared towards how the government has gone back on their promises.

Will any students have chance to protest against it with their busy schedule in Varsity on a Lunchtime during weekday, or in bed

[Jon the Hat]

Has anyone told Australian graduates that they are tied into a life long cycle of debt and hence are doomed?

This must explain the very negative attitude which sterotypes the Australian graduate. And why they are so short of people wanting to go to University.

On another note, the interest rate applied is proposed to be the same rate as the government has to pay to borrow the funds it is lending. Currently the rate charged is much lower.

Also none of this is Vince Cable's idea.

Also have you noted at all that the universities are quite keen on being able to increase fees?

If you can go to University and become a doctor, hence erning upto a million quid more in your professional life than they avaerage Joe, should you not perhaps fund it yourself over the 30 year time period you could pay your fees?

[Tommy G]

Has anyone told Australian graduates that they are tied into a life long cycle of debt and hence are doomed?

This must explain the very negative attitude which sterotypes the Australian graduate. And why they are so short of people wanting to go to University.

On another note, the interest rate applied is proposed to be the same rate as the government has to pay to borrow the funds it is lending. Currently the rate charged is much lower.

Also none of this is Vince Cable's idea.

Also have you noted at all that the universities are quite keen on being able to increase fees?

If you can go to University and become a doctor, hence erning upto a million quid more in your professional life than they avaerage Joe, should you not perhaps fund it yourself over the 30 year time period you could pay your fees?

Exactly my point but put better

[Jon the Hat]

On the other hand, is it rightly pissing off Lib Dem voters that their elected representatives are suddenly seeing the light while in government? Oh yes. Do I find this amusing?? OH YES!!

[Alexikokopops]

So if you graduate and walk into a job as a GP earning £40k rising to £100k after a few years then earn that amount for a good 30 years - you shouldn't have a large debt?

I couldn't give a fook if they stuck it up to £12k a year, it will all be relative still if everyone is paying the same

Might put off some people doing courses like a BA in ''Magazine studies with pathways to Healthcare'' esq degree. because they want a free ride for 3 years on the piss...

What about the people that are put of studying a doctorate degree because of fears over the staggering amount of debt that going to University will lead to?

[Dr The Singh]

On the other hand, is it rightly pissing off Lib Dem voters that their elected representatives are suddenly seeing the light while in government? Oh yes. Do I find this amusing?? OH YES!!

On the other hand I find it even more amusing that Tommy G and Jon the hat are thinging alike.........take that you Tommy G haters!!!!! OH YES!!!!

[Finnegan]

Doctors are poor examples though. What about teachers? Social workers? Plenty of university educated people only end up looking at average-to-poor wages when they qualify and are still doing worthy jobs. I actually agred with Tommy's slight dig at 'nonsense' degrees, I certainly rue my own immature decision to study film, but I don't see that making universities once more an institute for the elite is progressive.

[Jon the Hat]

What about the people that are put of studying a doctorate degree because of fears over the staggering amount of debt that going to University will lead to?

Post graduate degrees I would say can be a quite different question.

There is nothing to stop the government selectively part funding certain disciplines at either undergrad or post grad level, in fact I believe there is a proposal to take a cut of any fees charged which are over about £6000 to fund those who cannot afford to pay, or don't repay their loans, This could be extended to finance particular areas. Also if universities are better funded through this scheme, they can provide bursaries to exceptional students to continue their studies as part of their research.

[Dr The Singh]

Doctors are poor examples though. What about teachers? Social workers? Plenty of university educated people only end up looking at average-to-poor wages when they qualify and are still doing worthy jobs. I actually agred with Tommy's slight dig at 'nonsense' degrees, I certainly rue my own immature decision to study PORN, but I don't see that making universities once more an institute for the elite is progressive.

I agree, not every profession that actuially necessitates a university degree has the money, scientists, mathmaticians, engineers etc will suffer. The cost of facilitating a scientific degree is far more then that say of Law, this country will lack some very crucial skills, if it's not careful!

Ps - I am a professor in ur degree choice Finners, without any study!!!

[Jon the Hat]

Doctors are poor examples though. What about teachers? Social workers? Plenty of university educated people only end up looking at average-to-poor wages when they qualify and are still doing worthy jobs. I actually agred with Tommy's slight dig at 'nonsense' degrees, I certainly rue my own immature decision to study film, but I don't see that making universities once more an institute for the elite is progressive.

Why would they be a institue for the elite? I don't follow the argument. No one is saying you have to pay £50k up front for your course are they?

[Alexikokopops]

Doctors are poor examples though. What about teachers? Social workers? Plenty of university educated people only end up looking at average-to-poor wages when they qualify and are still doing worthy jobs. I actually agred with Tommy's slight dig at 'nonsense' degrees, I certainly rue my own immature decision to study film, but I don't see that making universities once more an institute for the elite is progressive.

Maybe an argument is to provide more practical training for things like social workers, teaching etc. so you don't have to go to University to do these. Turn University into something that you only need to go to if you're genuinely interested in studying a subject (like, say, history) or becoming a doctor (just an example), rather than something which a lot of people feel they have to go to just to have any chance of getting a job. I'm just throwing ideas out there. Stoking the fires before leaving the thread for good and watching it go out of hand.

[Tommy G]

Maybe making certain degree's a certain ''price'' - like a shop. If you want to study Law at cambridge it will cost you £15k a year but If you want to study it in blackpool combined with Ice Cram Making studies then it will still be c£3k.

Everyone knows the link between top jobs and the top Uni's. I think this will make University more elitist and exclusive to ''the middle class'' but if it puts off some people going there as a stop gap because they haven't got anything better to do, and do a degree for the sake of it then I'm all for it.

Also stick the CT up to 50% for all listed banks, might be politically popular to combat all the students protesting against this.

[Jon the Hat]

I agree, not every profession that actuially necessitates a university degree has the money, scientists, mathmaticians, engineers etc will suffer. The cost of facilitating a scientific degree is far more then that say of Law, this country will lack some very crucial skills, if it's not careful!

Ps - I am a professor in ur degree choice Finners, without any study!!!

Is this not part of the reason why the top universities want to be able to charge higher fees? To fund those courses properly?

[Finnegan]

I should add, I am not strictly against making uni harder to get in to - I just think you can do so without restricting to the wealthy and filling the purses of the institutions.

[Alexikokopops]

Maybe making certain degree's a certain ''price'' - like a shop. If you want to study Law at cambridge it will cost you £15k a year but If you want to study it in blackpool combined with Ice Cram Making studies then it will still be c£3k.

Everyone knows the link between top jobs and the top Uni's. I think this will make University more elitist and exclusive to ''the middle class'' but if it puts off some people going there as a stop gap because they haven't got anything better to do, and do a degree for the sake of it then I'm all for it.

Also stick the CT up to 50% for all listed banks, might be politically popular to combat all the students protesting against this.

A think a large problem is that it's drilled into a lot of people that you need a degree to get a job, and the alternatives aren't publicised enough. People don't necessarily apply to Uni thinking "ah, yes, lets get pissed for three years", more "shit, I need a degree to get any job, I'd better apply to something", and the getting pissed for three years comes as a result of them not really caring about the degree they're doing.

I did four years at Uni (3 years BSc and MSc), and couldn't have done my job without learning what I did, but there a lot of people I know who did it for the reasons above.

[Dr The Singh]

Is this not part of the reason why the top universities want to be able to charge higher fees? To fund those courses properly?

Part yes, and maybe it's valid. But with many uni's shutting down various scientific faculties including chemistry and physics due to lack of interest, the further increase in price will only deter students further. Unless the Uni's are gonna subsidise those courses, which I doubt!!

Losing these vital skills will hit many industries esp health and defence!!

[Houdini Logic]

Why do I imagine it's the same people moaning that the government shouldn't help students that are also moaning that we are losing our national identity.

It's moves like this that are destroying the remaining few things we could once stand on the rooftops and shout about in this country

[Houdini Logic]

I should add, I am not strictly against making uni harder to get in to - I just think you can do so without restricting to the wealthy and filling the purses of the institutions.

Exactly. We're returning back to the days of 'who can afford it' rather than 'who would be best suited'.

Tragic

[Dr The Singh]

Why do I imagine it's the same people moaning that the government shouldn't help students that are also moaning that we are losing our national identity.

It's moves like this that are destroying the remaining few things we could once stand on the rooftops and shout about in this country

Good point, free education was a massive statement, one which allured many of my punjabi ancestry to this country!!

[Tommy G]

A think a large problem is that it's drilled into a lot of people that you need a degree to get a job, and the alternatives aren't publicised enough. People don't necessarily apply to Uni thinking "ah, yes, lets get pissed for three years", more "shit, I need a degree to get any job, I'd better apply to something", and the getting pissed for three years comes as a result of them not really caring about the degree they're doing.

I did four years at Uni (3 years BSc and MSc), and couldn't have done my job without learning what I did, but there a lot of people I know who did it for the reasons above.

Yeh I agree - nothing wrong with that, but would you personally have an issue paying a bit more for your degree in relation to your earnings after Uni? probably not.

I dont think it's fair for oxford to charge the same as a lesser uni, because at oxford your degree will have more value, your more employable than the average joe and ''likely'' to receive a higher salaried job when your older - so I reckon you should coff up the extra.

Whatever the govt do there will be an uproar regardless

[Jon the Hat]

What if the alternative was to say, right we halve the number of Uni places, and you have to be seriously bright to get in?

Personally I woudl prefer that, but becuase Labour has spent a decade making Uni the social leveller that everyone from kids to employers think is essential to progress, this is not an option.

It seems to me the current systems is gradually dragging the best universities down to the level of the worst, becuase they get the same cash whether they are world class or utter dross.

[Alexikokopops]

Yeh I agree - nothing wrong with that, but would you personally have an issue paying a bit more for your degree in relation to your earnings after Uni? probably not.

I dont think it's fair for oxford to charge the same as a lesser uni, because at oxford your degree will have more value, your more employable than the average joe and ''likely'' to receive a higher salaried job when your older - so I reckon you should coff up the extra.

Whatever the govt do there will be an uproar regardless

The problem is that a lot of degrees don't necessarily lead to better paid jobs, and yet are necessary. To become a teacher you need a degree, yet however much the teaching appeals to you you're going to be put off if you're going to come out after three years with debts of £30k and a starting salary of £21k. This is my main worry about the proposals - there's the danger of, as Houdini Logic puts it, "returning back to the days of 'who can afford it' rather than 'who would be best suited'"

[Tommy G]

The problem is that a lot of degrees don't necessarily lead to better paid jobs, and yet are necessary. To become a teacher you need a degree, yet however much the teaching appeals to you you're going to be put off if you're going to come out after three years with debts of £30k and a starting salary of £21k. This is my main worry about the proposals - there's the danger of, as Houdini Logic puts it, "returning back to the days of 'who can afford it' rather than 'who would be best suited'"

Ok I see your point.

How about a form of test to assume an individuals level of IQ or intelligence for a particular course, or suitability. When you come out of Uni you often have to do all sorts of tests/assessment days for decent jobs anyway so why not for a University?

At least a mandatory interview. That would sort the wheat from the chaff regardless of your social background.

It would even prevent the daddys little rich girl from getting in even if she was from a wealthy upbringing, and might give the opportunity for a bright spark who could make a difference to the UK in ther future to take her place, even if he/she is rich or poor.

[Master Fox]

I think most of you are forgetting this new system will benefit the part time students. Make it fooking harder to get to Uni full time I say. If you really want it then you'll have to fcuking pay for it by finding the money to do so. It's like the ameircan system whereby it's expensive and people have to pay it. There have been so many useless c unts that have gone to Uni over the last decade here and come away with waste degrees. Make people actually bloody work for it. I've done all my studying part time while holding down a full time job. So fcuk you, get a job and do it part time and put some fcuking real work into it you lazy fcukwits. People in this country expect everthing to be handed to them on a plate.