Some thoughts

[Finnegan]

And I have a very strong moral compass, it's just different to yours and focused in other ways.

Yes, rather strongly off to the right, apparently.

A direction of which I'd dispute the "morality" at all.

[z-layrex]

Yes, rather strongly off to the right, apparently.

A direction of which I'd dispute the "morality" at all.

I might vote conservative and in a perfect world wish my taxes could only go to people who really need and deserve them (in my eyes), and I don't know what you do with your days, but I go home every single working day knowing I made a difference to people's lives, and I won't be made to feel bad about who I am by a leftist, judging person like you.

[FoxyPV]

The deserving poor - is that a new idea?

[Samilktray]

I gave some bloke £2.70 in town today to put towards a spliff. I'm going to sleep feeling better about myself and the world.

But a lovely post from James, agree with it all.

[James.]

Good effort. It's upsets me though that India has nuclear weapons and a space program but seemingly makes so little effort to look after it's poor.

James although you make an excellent post I also agree with Jon the hat and fox 123. How much was spent on hosting the commonwealth games?

I think a lot is wrong in the world but when there is such a divide in countries, more should be done to educate governments before trying to get to my conscience.

The way the poor are treated here is a travesty. I absolutely agree with you but if anything I think that makes the case for helping even stronger. The money I have donated and the time I have given has not gone to the government it has gone to NGO's - by definition these have nothing to do with the government. Organisations that are working on the ground to help the people the government have forgotten. Organisations such as Vision Rescue who send buses into the slums to provide families with their only meal of the day, or to treat ill children who would otherwise go untreated, or to teach children that would otherwise go without education.

And I don't think it's always a case of governments needing to be educated. The Indian government know exactly what they are doing. They are pursuing rampant economic growth at a cost of a widening gulf between the rich and the poor. This is not going to change any time soon so in the meantime surely it's best to help those that are going to be left behind by the "progress" the country is making.

I will sympathise for those struggling in this Country of ours before I do in others I'm afraid.

That is completely your choice. My general point was that we should all try to do more to help "whether that's in Mumbai or Market Harborough".

One point I would say is that the world is more connected now than ever. Helping a different country doesn't mean your neglecting your own, in some cases it's exactly the opposite. Take the Central Asia Institute for example who provide education for children in the tribal areas of Pakistan. Do you not think that donating money to help them educate children who may otherwise find themselves in the Wahhabi madrasses being taught extreme interpretations of Islam could be benefiting the UK?

Thrac - the mrs was in the States a few years ago and said it was like visiting a third world country. The poverty was everywhere for all to see.

Third world? Really?

In the charity begins at home stakes I support at least one family of four on a council estate sonewhere with my taxes...

And on a slightly less facetious note, I have a lot if respect for those who give their time to others more needy, but at the moment I work 50 hours a week, travel with work a night or two most weeks so my time is very valuable to me, and I spend it with my family.

And it would be well out of order to tell you how you should spend your free time or your money. When I have children they will be my priority too, as they should be. At the same time I will make sure I continue to make donations to worthwhile causes, both in the UK and abroad. Money won't solve anything, it's a whole lot more complicated than that, but if channelled in the right way it can certainly help.

[skinnydipper]

Good effort. It's upsets me though that India has nuclear weapons and a space program but seemingly makes so little effort to look after it's poor.

Agree with the sentiment of this but charities would be defunct if this determined whether or not to make a charitable donations - look no further than our own spending/waste on Olympic Games,Quangos and politicians sticking their snouts in the trough

Hate those charity muggers who lure you into donating by appealing to your conscience only to find that a small pecentage of your donation is applied to the charitable aim (isn't this the case with the Ryan Air Scratchcards?)

And although the Lottery provides many millions for charities its ironic that it's avarice that underpins its success

[Dr The Singh]

I have the urge to get this off my chest and here seems as good a place as any to do it.

As you may know I'm living in India, I came here in July and I'll be leaving in December. It's an amazing place - so vibrant, colourful, fascinating, intriguing and overwhelming. I'm fortunate enough to work for an investment bank that not only gave me this opportunity but also pays me very generously to do it. I've worked hard to get where I am and I like to think I'm good at what I do but what I am coming to understand are my responsibilities away from the workplace given the fortunate position I find myself in.

I'm lucky. Everyone that reads this thread is lucky to some extent. None of you are the little kid I see squatting by the side of the road to take a shit in the morning or the man who had his eyes removed when he was younger so he could compete with the other beggars. None of you are the family that lives under the flyover hanging their dirty clothes on road signs. Nor are you the girl with tuberculosis whose family can't afford to see a doctor or the man that has to move around on a wheeled platform because he doesn't have any legs.

India opens your eyes and your mind. I sit here in my 5 star hotel, on the internet, with Stoke vs Man United on the TV about to order enough Chinese food to feed a slum and I think to myself - I'm lucky. I could have been the man with no eyes or the family under the flyover. I could have been on the other side of the car window when on my way to work and children carrying smaller children tap on my window for money, food, anything.

I'm not preaching to people. Most of you know this is the reality of the developing world. Where sparkling shopping malls cast shadows over the people living on the street or in the slums. Where 150 diet clinics exist in a city that still has people starving to death. The contradictions are everywhere. Maybe my intention is just to make people think, even just for a little bit, about the lives they lead and what they might possibly do to make things better for others who aren't as lucky. Everyone has their own issues and problems - life is complicated. But that doesn't mean we can't take a step back and put things into perspective from time to time.

What am I doing? I've volunteered at a school in Dharavi, Asia's biggest slum, I've donated a decent sum of money to an organisation that my girlfriend is working with over here and I plan to donate more before I leave. But I could do more. It doesn't even have to be to do with money. And that's why everyone can help, in some small way, whether it's in Mumbai or Market Harborough - there's work to be done.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. I hope my somewhat rambling monologue hasn't depressed or bored you too much. If even just one person reads this and thinks, you know what I'm going to give a little back, whether that be time, money or whatever, then I'll be happy.

I donate to pingulwalay in the punjab, BUT i don't donate cash, because you can't trust any fooker or instuitution in that continent no matter how genuine they seem. The message i'm trying to make is, be cautious!!!

Anytime any member of my family goes, they buy food, clothing or whatever is required, and they would help prep the food and serve it, to many destitutes. All of my kids clothes are there, and some lucky fooking kid is wearing Burberry jeans!!!

I have to agree with James, this so called super power, who sells a Bollywoodised culture and life..............scratch the surface and it's far from glamourous.

People often think why i'm so critical of India\Hindustan, and only after seeing for yourself you will understand my disgust at such a continent!!!

[Dr The Singh]

Good effort. It's upsets me though that India has nuclear weapons and a space program but seemingly makes so little effort to look after it's poor.

Very true, and it will not look after the poor. As james has stated, it's a very complicated place. Unfortunately, it all goes back to the way India was formed and how it was formed. If you look at Yugoslavia, India could just as easily fall apart.

It's a very long topic, only if you fully understand it's long history over 2000 years, will only then will you get some understanding!!!

The people of India have not matured enough, and Indian's themselves have not got passed there tribal, religous roots to fullfil it's potential as a continent!!

[Dr The Singh]

James although you make an excellent post I also agree with Jon the hat and fox 123. How much was spent on hosting the commonwealth games? Also how much did south Africa spend on the world cup when a lot of their country doesn't even have electricity? I remember watching one programme where they had installed a generator and a tv for one of south africas matches, the locals had never seen such luxuries before. During the match when s.Africa scored they showed a replay of the goal, the locals having never seen a tv before thought they had scored again, it took a lot of explaining to sort the situation out!

I think a lot is wrong in the world but when there is such a divide in countries, more should be done to educate governments before trying to get to my conscience.

Exactly!!1 Instead of the British giving money to the like so of India, who are totally abusing there wealth!!! Britain should have restrictions and tie ins, such as we will give you x if you put in x+2!!!

But unfortunately India or a very few Indians have alot o disposable cash, nations like Britian, US, Ruskies, Israel etc are sucking there arses getting the Indians to sign for various defence projects, infrastructure projects and investments.

No nation other then China will ever mention India's human rights record, it's abuses of power and state terrorism, it's level of poverty 40% or 400 million, and child abuses including over 10 million child prostitutes.

Yet the world bark about Tibet (not that i'm saying whatever is happening there is right). Infact Tibet and Tibetians have better infrastructure and better living standard overall then any nation\state in India!!!

It's capatilism at it's best, for $$$$$$$, every nation on this planet will turn the other way and ignore the suffering!!

[MC Prussian]

Not really want to spoil anything from your initial post, James.

However, it's all nice and sound overlooking the Indian social and political issues from high above in a five-star hotel munching on some Chinese food.

I know you've done a fair bit of traveling yourself, but you make it appear as if you're just another foreigner trying to solve a problem that runs so deep only the Indian nation itself would be able to solve it.

And look how far they've come and how far they're still away from securing some kind of a minimum wage.

The cast system is too ancient to move in a progressive direction. I don't know what it'd take to change things around.

Granted, there's money to be made by working for foreign companies with a branch in New Delhi, Hyderabad or Pune.

Try helping the poor by setting up your own donation scheme, but without a monetarian aspect.

You just never know where that hard-earned dough is going to if you hand it over to a third party...

Still, I hope your money will make an impact for the better, if only on a small scale.

[James.]

Not really want to spoil anything from your initial post, James.

However, it's all nice and sound overlooking the Indian social and political issues from high above in a five-star hotel munching on some Chinese food.

I know you've done a fair bit of traveling yourself, but you make it appear as if you're just another foreigner trying to solve a problem that runs so deep only the Indian nation itself would be able to solve it.

And look how far they've come and how far they're still away from securing some kind of a minimum wage.

The cast system is too ancient to move in a progressive direction. I don't know what it'd take to change things around.

Granted, there's money to be made by working for foreign companies with a branch in New Delhi, Hyderabad or Pune.

Try helping the poor by setting up your own donation scheme, but without a monetarian aspect.

You just never know where that hard-earned dough is going to if you hand it over to a third party...

Still, I hope your money will make an impact for the better, if only on a small scale.

I knew your post would be negative.

At no point did I say I was trying to solve anything. I'm not stupid. As I've already made perfectly clear in my previous posts I am well aware of the complexity of the issues in India. And I have also stated I'm not here simply throwing money around, but spending time volunteering as well.

I'm not just another foreigner in a 5* hotel. My girlfriend has spent 3 months here working on the ground, in the slums, day after day. She is helping organisations who are operating right at the very root of the issues - providing healthcare and education to people who would otherwise miss out. She is consulting with them on how to improve what they do using her extensive youth work and project management experience.

We speak about these issues every day - she tells me all about the situation on the ground and I see it for myself also. We have had meetings and dinner with the people that run these organisations and have discussed in detail the work they do. We suggest possible improvements to how they work and constantly seek to understand the challenges faced by the poor in India. Also we have written a proposal for a microfinance scheme which we are discussing with a founder of one of the NGO's I mentioned earlier (Vision Rescue). This scheme would help bring education to families who are currently forced into having their children work instead of attend school.

In my original post I didn't feel the need to explain all of this as the main thrust of my point was that we should all take a bit of time to think how we can help those less fortunate. It was a general point about helping people in India, in Leicester, wherever. I have never claimed to have the solution. But that doesn't mean we should just sit back and do nothing. It's about taking small steps, one little bit of progress at a time - on the ground, where it matters and where a difference CAN be made.

[hairy]

Good effort. It's upsets me though that India has nuclear weapons and a space program but seemingly makes so little effort to look after it's poor.

For India to ever be in a position where it can help its people it needs to invest in technolgies / services that other countries will buy.

[Dr The Singh]

Not really want to spoil anything from your initial post, James.

However, it's all nice and sound overlooking the Indian social and political issues from high above in a five-star hotel munching on some Chinese food.

I know you've done a fair bit of traveling yourself, but you make it appear as if you're just another foreigner trying to solve a problem that runs so deep only the Indian nation itself would be able to solve it.

And look how far they've come and how far they're still away from securing some kind of a minimum wage.

The cast system is too ancient to move in a progressive direction. I don't know what it'd take to change things around.

Granted, there's money to be made by working for foreign companies with a branch in New Delhi, Hyderabad or Pune.

Try helping the poor by setting up your own donation scheme, but without a monetarian aspect.

You just never know where that hard-earned dough is going to if you hand it over to a third party...

Still, I hope your money will make an impact for the better, if only on a small scale.

I sort of agree with you Alex, god knows how people I know, even descendants from India and those who have links to India......, who have spent alot of time effort and money to try and make a change. My dad for example, has set up business, totally reformed his place of birth, offered healthcare access to solicitors, legal advice. My father gave millions of rupees away trying to help his ancestry and his people.

Not only did the 'system' betray my father but those he tried to help. The so called poor and needy backstabbed my dad, and tried put him in prison etc, only because my father found out that they were spongers and refused to give them anymore.

This is a common story, one that has been heard many a time. Many people who have sent money back to there ancestry and poor have found they have been betrayed, I know of one chap, who allowed a so called ashram or charity to use his land, only to find out they obtained the land by illegal means and now won't evict from it!!

My family and I have been doing seva or helping the poor for years, everytime I go to Punjab or any of our family go, our family do langar seva (provide food, clothing to the masses) If you already didn't know Sikh gurdwara's have a free kitchen and offer free food to all, including the poor. My grand dad was known as a saint because he never let any poor person go empty handed, even though he was poor himself.

I have fed the poor with my own hands BUT asking people to help the needy just cus you have is pointless, unless people see the poverty for themselves they would never know. And when you see people who have very little still try and give so much it puts into perpective how little you actually do. I for one am embarassed at myself for posting this because to be fair, i've done fook all compared to many others!!!

Your microfinance thing James, your gonna need more then luck, but don't let that stop you!!!

[Dr The Singh]

I sort of agree with you Alex, god knows how people I know, even descendants from India and those who have links to India......, who have spent alot of time effort and money to try and make a change. My dad for example, has set up business, totally reformed his place of birth, offered healthcare access to solicitors, legal advice. My father gave millions of rupees away trying to help his ancestry and his people.

Not only did the 'system' betray my father but those he tried to help. The so called poor and needy backstabbed my dad, and tried put him in prison etc, only because my father found out that they were spongers and refused to give them anymore.

This is a common story, one that has been heard many a time. Many people who have sent money back to there ancestry and poor have found they have been betrayed, I know of one chap, who allowed a so called ashram or charity to use his land, only to find out they obtained the land by illegal means and now won't evict from it!!

My family and I have been doing seva or helping the poor for years, everytime I go to Punjab or any of our family go, our family do langar seva (provide food, clothing to the masses) If you already didn't know Sikh gurdwara's have a free kitchen and offer free food to all, including the poor. My grand dad was known as a saint because he never let any poor person go empty handed, even though he was poor himself.

I have fed the poor with my own hands BUT asking people to help the needy just cus you have is pointless, unless people see the poverty for themselves they would never know. And when you see people who have very little still try and give so much it puts into perpective how little you actually do. I for one am embarassed at myself for posting this because to be fair, i've done fook all compared to many others!!!

Your microfinance thing James, your gonna need more then luck, but don't let that stop you!!!

The only people that can help in India, is Indians!!! Unless there a mass movement of people willing to help the poor, reforms to education etc it isn't gonna happen!! People \ charities will only ever be scratching the surface!!

Movements such, from the moists, from nagas, biharis, Sikhs, Kashmiri's etc will continue!!!

[James.]

I see what you're saying Singh and I'm not surprised to read how your father was betrayed. The problems with corruption, dishonesty and blatant fraud are clear.

I've always had this in the back of my mind when posting in this thread. The obvious logistical, political and cultural complexities involved in helping. But what I've said all along is that I am looking at this very much from the bottom up. I know I can't change the world, I know I can't overcome the caste system, I know I can't just throw some money around and sit back while everything gets sorted. I'm talking about helping on the ground, getting kids into school, getting treatment to the ill, putting food in mouths. Of course it's on a small scale - I'm one human being with a full time job. But it has to start somewhere. And I know that what my girlfriend in particular has achieved since being here has made a difference to people, and we'll continue to help out until we leave.

As for the microfinance project, we shall see..! I have contacts and funds, with a bit of luck who knows.

[Dr The Singh]

I see what you're saying Singh and I'm not surprised to read how your father was betrayed. The problems with corruption, dishonesty and blatant fraud are clear.

I've always had this in the back of my mind when posting in this thread. The obvious logistical, political and cultural complexities involved in helping. But what I've said all along is that I am looking at this very much from the bottom up. I know I can't change the world, I know I can't overcome the caste system, I know I can't just throw some money around and sit back while everything gets sorted. I'm talking about helping on the ground, getting kids into school, getting treatment to the ill, putting food in mouths. Of course it's on a small scale - I'm one human being with a full time job. But it has to start somewhere. And I know that what my girlfriend in particular has achieved since being here has made a difference to people, and we'll continue to help out until we leave.

As for the microfinance project, we shall see..! I have contacts and funds, with a bit of luck who knows.

Only if everyone in India thought like you!!!!

(minus the sexual thoughts, there too disgusting)

[James.]

And Singh I agree that only Indians can actually change the country. If I scratch the surface then I'll be happy - I never thought it would be anything else... a surface scratched is better than one not touched at all.

For as long as change doesn't happen I will always stand by the idea of doing little bits, whatever you can. If you make a difference to just one person's life then it's worth it.

Oh and yeah as for sexual thoughts... Indian women are hot, don't tell my girlfriend though.

[Dr The Singh]

And Singh I agree that only Indians can actually change the country. If I scratch the surface then I'll be happy - I never thought it would be anything else... a surface scratched is better than one not touched at all.

For as long as change doesn't happen I will always stand by the idea of doing little bits, whatever you can. If you make a difference to just one person's life then it's worth it.

Oh and yeah as for sexual thoughts... Indian women are hot, don't tell my girlfriend though.

You know what I could have joined you in Mumbia, my borther and I were due to go to the punjab but unfortunately we had a death in the family, so only my dad and my auntie have gone!!

You could have taken me to one of the many mujra joints, and diwali is comming up and it should be amazing, it pisses over the belgrave thing!!!

[Benji]

In the charity begins at home stakes I support at least one family of four on a council estate sonewhere with my taxes...

And on a slightly less facetious note, I have a lot if respect for those who give their time to others more needy, but at the moment I work 50 hours a week, travel with work a night or two most weeks so my time is very valuable to me, and I spend it with my family.

Even I was refraining from an anti-tax comment in a charity thread!

Oh, and excellent read James, keep at it.