Iwan is a Welshman Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Sorry if this post covers topics already covered elsewhere (it almost definately does) but after a depressing afternoon hearing Forest win their third on the bounce and look to have cemented their play off place even Coalville's clinching of the Midland Alliance couldn't cheer me up. I started thinking about how this season ended up as it did from all of the optimism that the club was riding high on a year ago. Here's what I came up with: 1. After his post-match interview following our home game with Hull this year there was a general consensus that Nigel Pearson had left us in the Summer because he was unhappy with certain characters above him. I've heard rumours from a variety of sources that this deterioration in relationship between Pearson and his seniors had started long before the end of the season and that one sign of this was Paulo Sousa's invite to the Play-Off Semi-Final First Leg against Cardiff. There's a lack of concrete information to base any of this on so I must stress, so as not to incriminate myself, that this is based on rumour and not fact. 2. Hull came in for him with a new chairman offering a (Semi) Premiership squad. Again, an inclination I got from statements Pearson gave at the time, accompanied by rumours, was that Pearson left not because he felt Hull City had better prospects than us (in my opinion, proved right by hindsight, they certainly didn't) nor because he was unhappy with Leicester City. I got the feeling he left because he felt he wasn't wanted. (Again, opinion based on rumour not fact.) 3. I thought Paulo Sousa was a brilliant replacement considering what he'd done with Swansea. My only concern was the way they collapsed out of the Play-Offs at the end of last season. 4. However, the timing of his appointment meant he didn't get a full season with the player,s and the squad was disrupted. This lead to us starting the season incredibly unfit leading to second half performances like that at Turf Moor. 5. The timing of his appointment also meant that he couldn't bring in some of the players required for him to change our playing style to his liking. This was a major problem. Pearson's style and squad was far more direct and they couldn't play Sousa's football. 6. I like to see managers being given a chance but I think the sacking of Sousa was timed right. We were awful under him. Turns out wrong bloke for the job at the time. 7. We appoint a manager with fantastic credentials on a global scale and Milan "wield the axe" Mandaric departs for an even wealthier owner who appears to like chucking money at the club. That part's absolutely fantastic. I really like point 7. 8. Sven changes the squad round and manages, with his connections and Top's financial backing, to bring in players who can play the passing style of football that he also wants to play. Great signings like Sol Sol Bamba and Kyle Naughton were made. 9. Things turn round and for two months at the start of the year we start to look unbeatable. Brilliant. 10. During those two months, for reasons unknown to mankind, Sven persisted in chopping and changing a winning side. In came the likes of Ricardo and Bruma. They turned out to be crap. 11. We come across our first big challenge at the end of that two month winning streak at Cardiff, followed in quick succession by Cov, QPR and Norwich. Three disappointing performances (Cardiff, Cov and Norwich) and one good performance and dissapointing result (QPR.) Play-off run over. 12. But for some reason all the teams around us don't want to make the play-offs either. We get another chance and perk up - beating Scunny 3-0. 13. Dissapointing perfomances and results against Pompey and 'Boro and it's all over again. 14. We demolish a Burnley side 4-0 who were crap and we look really good in the process. Play-Offs back on. 15. However, after Palace at home and Forest away (with a loss at in form Reading not the end of the world in between) we realise that not only is Ricardo sh*te, but all those fond memories of Chris Weale were just fantasy. We remember he's prone to being sh*te as well. 16. Apart from a pleasing second half against Watford the season's over. Forest go on to win their next two games and all of a sudden their hopes are back on. A depressing Saturday afternoon at the end of April and I end up sat here writing this post. What for the future? Well I've got doubts that this is a league you're best passing your way out of and as much as I like Sven I can't help but feel his lack of experience at this level might hinder us next season. Also, as with his England side, they're seems to be a lot of class with no fight. You need a lot of fight in this division to win games like Palace at home where stubborn sides won't let you break them down. A slow passing build-up is less effective than a direct style of play... ...but, if someone is going to manage this club back to the Premiership by passing the ball around - you'd think that Sven would be one of the most qualified men for the job on the planet. He seems pretty happy at the club, and save the right clubs sniffing round him (West Ham, Villa), I think he'll still be here in August. If he is, he'd would've had the whole Summer with a budget bigger than most of the Championship to mould us in to a side reminiscent of his Lazio squad of the late 90's. We're gonna win the league next year by 10 points. Sorry for the ramble. What's everyone else think?
Adster Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Cracking post lad, you've pretty much summed up our season on a whole, disappointing, but I'm greatefull for what Sven has done and the position we are in rather than bottom of the league. I wouldn't say this season is a failure, or a success, just a normal season. Now next season is where it's at, give Sven a summer to buy players and a pre season to mould his squad (as he couldn't really try out things when he took over as his main objective was to try and secure playoffs) then I reckon we could be a real force next season. Crazy money doesn't have to be spent, just the right amount. Bring on next season
Nick Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Sorry if this post covers topics already covered elsewhere (it almost definately does) but after a depressing afternoon hearing Forest win their third on the bounce and look to have cemented their play off place even Coalville's clinching of the Midland Alliance couldn't cheer me up. I started thinking about how this season ended up as it did from all of the optimism that the club was riding high on a year ago. Here's what I came up with: 1. After his post-match interview following our home game with Hull this year there was a general consensus that Nigel Pearson had left us in the Summer because he was unhappy with certain characters above him. I've heard rumours from a variety of sources that this deterioration in relationship between Pearson and his seniors had started long before the end of the season and that one sign of this was Paulo Sousa's invite to the Play-Off Semi-Final First Leg against Cardiff. There's a lack of concrete information to base any of this on so I must stress, so as not to incriminate myself, that this is based on rumour and not fact. 2. Hull came in for him with a new chairman offering a (Semi) Premiership squad. Again, an inclination I got from statements Pearson gave at the time, accompanied by rumours, was that Pearson left not because he felt Hull City had better prospects than us (in my opinion, proved right by hindsight, they certainly didn't) nor because he was unhappy with Leicester City. I got the feeling he left because he felt he wasn't wanted. (Again, opinion based on rumour not fact.) 3. I thought Paulo Sousa was a brilliant replacement considering what he'd done with Swansea. My only concern was the way they collapsed out of the Play-Offs at the end of last season. 4. However, the timing of his appointment meant he didn't get a full season with the player,s and the squad was disrupted. This lead to us starting the season incredibly unfit leading to second half performances like that at Turf Moor. 5. The timing of his appointment also meant that he couldn't bring in some of the players required for him to change our playing style to his liking. This was a major problem. Pearson's style and squad was far more direct and they couldn't play Sousa's football. 6. I like to see managers being given a chance but I think the sacking of Sousa was timed right. We were awful under him. Turns out wrong bloke for the job at the time. 7. We appoint a manager with fantastic credentials on a global scale and Milan "wield the axe" Mandaric departs for an even wealthier owner who appears to like chucking money at the club. That part's absolutely fantastic. I really like point 7. 8. Sven changes the squad round and manages, with his connections and Top's financial backing, to bring in players who can play the passing style of football that he also wants to play. Great signings like Sol Sol Bamba and Kyle Naughton were made. 9. Things turn round and for two months at the start of the year we start to look unbeatable. Brilliant. 10. During those two months, for reasons unknown to mankind, Sven persisted in chopping and changing a winning side. In came the likes of Ricardo and Bruma. They turned out to be crap. 11. We come across our first big challenge at the end of that two month winning streak at Cardiff, followed in quick succession by Cov, QPR and Norwich. Three disappointing performances (Cardiff, Cov and Norwich) and one good performance and dissapointing result (QPR.) Play-off run over. 12. But for some reason all the teams around us don't want to make the play-offs either. We get another chance and perk up - beating Scunny 3-0. 13. Dissapointing perfomances and results against Pompey and 'Boro and it's all over again. 14. We demolish a Burnley side 4-0 who were crap and we look really good in the process. Play-Offs back on. 15. However, after Palace at home and Forest away (with a loss at in form Reading not the end of the world in between) we realise that not only is Ricardo sh*te, but all those fond memories of Chris Weale were just fantasy. We remember he's prone to being sh*te as well. 16. Apart from a pleasing second half against Watford the season's over. Forest go on to win their next two games and all of a sudden their hopes are back on. A depressing Saturday afternoon at the end of April and I end up sat here writing this post. What for the future? Well I've got doubts that this is a league you're best passing your way out of and as much as I like Sven I can't help but feel his lack of experience at this level might hinder us next season. Also, as with his England side, they're seems to be a lot of class with no fight. You need a lot of fight in this division to win games like Palace at home where stubborn sides won't let you break them down. A slow passing build-up is less effective than a direct style of play... ...but, if someone is going to manage this club back to the Premiership by passing the ball around - you'd think that Sven would be one of the most qualified men for the job on the planet. He seems pretty happy at the club, and save the right clubs sniffing round him (West Ham, Villa), I think he'll still be here in August. If he is, he'd would've had the whole Summer with a budget bigger than most of the Championship to mould us in to a side reminiscent of his Lazio squad of the late 90's. We're gonna win the league next year by 10 points. Sorry for the ramble. What's everyone else think? Just who in the name of God do you think you are? You come on here with your sensible, proportional summaries, full of reason and trot out a sane post. Daft. Plain daft. Edit: Oh and when I read your username I have to sing the whole song for reasons unknown and my girlfriend I think is getting annoyed with this.
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 1 May 2011 Author Posted 1 May 2011 Cheers lads. Nick my missus hates that song for the same reason.
davieG Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Decent summary but: I don't understand this you can't pass yourself out of the Championship what you need is fight, the two aren't mutually exclusive do the teams in the top leagues in the world never put up any fight.? Of course they do, so why can't Leicester City play a passing game with a steely edge and a determination to win, you just need the right sort of players.? Oh and Ricardo wasn't shite he was lacking game time, played a different style, not given a decent chance and hounded out of the team by blinkered fans.
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 1 May 2011 Author Posted 1 May 2011 Fair enough Davie G. I knew people wouldn't agree with it all it's just how I saw things. That's why I put it on here - to see how far off the mark I was. You're right about passing it out of the Championship. They're not mutually exclusive. It's just very difficult to build a passing team with that kind of edge. As for Ricardo, I was one of the fans who held my patience with him, but in the end enough became enough. It might have been down to the fact that he hadn't had regular football for 12 months or so before joining us then was thrown into the deep end a bit. If he was rusty that wasn't his fault. But that's me making an excuse on his behalf - it doesn't change that his stint in the side resulted in some very poor performances.
Babylon Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 it doesn't change that his stint in the side resulted in some very poor performances. Oh please. So a keeper who in his 9 games let in less goals than Weale did in his previous 9, somehow managed to make strikers miss chances, midfielders not track runners and made defenders miss tackles. Before we even start on the 11 players in the other team also trying to win the game.
davieG Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Fair enough Davie G. I knew people wouldn't agree with it all it's just how I saw things. That's why I put it on here - to see how far off the mark I was. You're right about passing it out of the Championship. They're not mutually exclusive. It's just very difficult to build a passing team with that kind of edge. As for Ricardo, I was one of the fans who held my patience with him, but in the end enough became enough. It might have been down to the fact that he hadn't had regular football for 12 months or so before joining us then was thrown into the deep end a bit. If he was rusty that wasn't his fault. But that's me making an excuse on his behalf - it doesn't change that his stint in the side resulted in some very poor performances. Difficult but not impossible and provides a massive advantage if it is achieved by laying the foundations of a team that will find surviving or even being successful in the PL much easier. How many goals scored where actually his fault 1 maybe 2? The animosity he got was mainly down to him punching, (assuming it wasn't because of he's nationality or history against England) what many failed to realise is that most of those punched balls could never have been reached to catch so by punching them he was doing what defenders do getting the ball out of the box. Yes there were some he perhaps should have caught but very few if you look at them. The anti brigade were carried along on a wave of hysteria not really strange for many football fans as it occurs most weeks when you get stupid reactions to decisions and inappropriate songs sung and the weekly scapegoat.
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 1 May 2011 Author Posted 1 May 2011 Ricardo was only one element of my post. I can see why he's a controversial topic. Babylon, I meant resulted in some very poor performances personally to him - not for the team as a whole. I can see how it can be read the other way and I agree with everything you say in your post. Davie G you've got a point in that Ricardo had things going against him from the off. Lack of match practice, language barrier with the back four, and although his performances against England shouldn't count no doubt some supporters held it against him. Also when 'keepers come in and get a couple of things wrong some fans get on their back straight away. Would you be happy to see Ricardo as our No.1 next season? I had no complaint with his punching really. I understand it's something that foreign 'keepers like to do and, providing you get it right, it's probably a better option than catching the ball. My concern with Ricardo is that the back four had lost confidence in him and their was a breakdown in communication which I'm not sure would be rectified by next season. He was also prone to a number of handling errors which really, really bothers me from 'keepers (even though I know it happens to all of them some are more susceptible than others - like that berk at Spurs at the minute.) Also, this shouldn't bother me because he's clearly had a long and successful career in the game, but I prefer my 'keepers a bit bigger! I think with our resources, and the fact that Westwood is available just down the road, that I'd prefer to see a different No.1 next season.
FoxyPV Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Bar the Ricardo comment that's a really good summary of the season.
davieG Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Ricardo was only one element of my post. I can see why he's a controversial topic. Babylon, I meant resulted in some very poor performances personally to him - not for the team as a whole. I can see how it can be read the other way and I agree with everything you say in your post. Davie G you've got a point in that Ricardo had things going against him from the off. Lack of match practice, language barrier with the back four, and although his performances against England shouldn't count no doubt some supporters held it against him. Also when 'keepers come in and get a couple of things wrong some fans get on their back straight away. Would you be happy to see Ricardo as our No.1 next season? I had no complaint with his punching really. I understand it's something that foreign 'keepers like to do and, providing you get it right, it's probably a better option than catching the ball. My concern with Ricardo is that the back four had lost confidence in him and their was a breakdown in communication which I'm not sure would be rectified by next season. He was also prone to a number of handling errors which really, really bothers me from 'keepers (even though I know it happens to all of them some are more susceptible than others - like that berk at Spurs at the minute.) Also, this shouldn't bother me because he's clearly had a long and successful career in the game, but I prefer my 'keepers a bit bigger! I think with our resources, and the fact that Westwood is available just down the road, that I'd prefer to see a different No.1 next season. It matters not what I think re next season re Ricardo, Sven didn't have the options he'll have in the close season, besides it's the principle that's at stake some fans make instant judgements re players and stick to it, Ricardo wasn't shite, yes he made some errors but shite is in the extreme and seem somewhat out of kinder with the rest of your post. Anyway I don't want to turn your topic into a Ricardo debate we've had plenty of them and don't really need another one.
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 1 May 2011 Author Posted 1 May 2011 Thanks FoxyPV. Davie G I can see where you're coming from. I wasn't one of the Ricardo boo-boys but maybe you're right crap was a bit flippant. I agree that it's certainly been debated enough over the past few months!
jamesmilner Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Oh and Ricardo wasn't shite he was lacking game time, played a different style, not given a decent chance and hounded out of the team by blinkered fans. ricardo is a keeper that's not shite then ? you think he should not be replaced ? as mr t would say , what you talking about fool ! sven picks the team ! if the fans picked the team , it would be alot different , not just ricardo replaced . "hounded out by blinkered fans" . so you think sven thought " the fans want ricardo out , i will now do that , for the fans " sven picks the team not the fans . just shown your football knowledge as it is .
FuriousFox46 Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 From October onwards - Succesful season. On to bigger and better things for the next campaign!
The Year Of The Fox Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Joe- For me point 10 was the major turning point of the season. The influx of players was too much too soon. I genuinely believe had Sven put Weale back in goal sooner than he did then the season wouldn't have been as disappointing. No we know since that Weale is very prone to errors, but to me that was down to confidence being knocked severely by being dropped for ,at the time, no reason. Not Ricardo's fault, it more lies with Sven for being too persistent in selecting Ricardo. You could just tell looking at the players that they didn't seem to communicate with each other as well. Possibly no coincidence when Vitor and Ricardo played together it looked a bit more solid, Even now Sven doesn't know his best 11 if everyone is fit IMO. If you remember after the Cardiff away game last season in my pissed up state I predicted we wouldn't make the play offs this season. We over- achieved, as well as flying with confidence on the back of a good league 1 season. The one thing that we had last season and not this season is (again IMO) the closeness and togetherness of a tightly knit squad. We already had the remnants of a great squad, all Sven had to do was tweak it slightly. Instead Berner Waghorn and Hobbs all get dropped. I'm not being sentimental over any of those 3. Waggy has never been given his chance in the team under Sven, and defensively Hobbs and Berner are as good as any other players been brought in to replace them. We missed Wayne Brown this season I think. - no I'm not taking the piss! As for passing the way out the league- I completely agree with you, There are times and games where this attractive football will never work- Palace at home. Which is why its useful to have players like Howard up front, a bit of roughing up the team, getting stuck in and getting the flicks off him.
Leicester_Loyal Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Give Sven a pre-season, give me a bit of money, and we will reap the rewards next year. Cannot wait.
The Sven Revolution Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Totally expect us to be in the top 4 come Dec next! Then its all down to where we finish auto or play-offs...with all the expectations...anything less that promotion via play-offs will result in wholesale changes at the club..promotion next season is a MUST from a financial point of view...hopefully Sven can deliver that!
Dan Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Excellent post, a very good summary of the season. But the future bit - I'm not being funny, but I think Sven, with his contact list, the money we've got would be able to finally get in a side that would pass their way out of this league, I really do. Not accounting for any of the half-hearted displays at all, but I see no reason you can't get out of this league playing pretty football, obviously we're gonna need some grit in the side but if you're a good passing side, then you'll do it. Ultimately I think the key to getting out of this league is being effective at what you do - I don't think there's a particular style that gets success, just how well you play your own.
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 1 May 2011 Author Posted 1 May 2011 Cheers Dan, I agree with what you say. It's just finding that grit and effectiveness that's going to be the job over the summer. Like you say though, Sven's got the contacts, so hopefully you're optimism might not be too far out.
Guest Col city fan Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Totally expect us to be in the top 4 come Dec next! Then its all down to where we finish auto or play-offs...with all the expectations...anything less that promotion via play-offs will result in wholesale changes at the club..promotion next season is a MUST from a financial point of view...hopefully Sven can deliver that! Totally expect us to be the top four? Again, what are you basing this on... We have no idea what the squad's gonna look like yet? Your optimism remains refreshing but completely unsubstantiated.
Guest Col city fan Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Joe- For me point 10 was the major turning point of the season. The influx of players was too much too soon. I genuinely believe had Sven put Weale back in goal sooner than he did then the season wouldn't have been as disappointing. No we know since that Weale is very prone to errors, but to me that was down to confidence being knocked severely by being dropped for ,at the time, no reason. Not Ricardo's fault, it more lies with Sven for being too persistent in selecting Ricardo. You could just tell looking at the players that they didn't seem to communicate with each other as well. Possibly no coincidence when Vitor and Ricardo played together it looked a bit more solid, Even now Sven doesn't know his best 11 if everyone is fit IMO. If you remember after the Cardiff away game last season in my pissed up state I predicted we wouldn't make the play offs this season. We over- achieved, as well as flying with confidence on the back of a good league 1 season. The one thing that we had last season and not this season is (again IMO) the closeness and togetherness of a tightly knit squad. We already had the remnants of a great squad, all Sven had to do was tweak it slightly. Instead Berner Waghorn and Hobbs all get dropped. I'm not being sentimental over any of those 3. Waggy has never been given his chance in the team under Sven, and defensively Hobbs and Berner are as good as any other players been brought in to replace them. We missed Wayne Brown this season I think. - no I'm not taking the piss! As for passing the way out the league- I completely agree with you, There are times and games where this attractive football will never work- Palace at home. Which is why its useful to have players like Howard up front, a bit of roughing up the team, getting stuck in and getting the flicks off him. Superb post and I agree with the lot of it
The Doctor Posted 1 May 2011 Posted 1 May 2011 Oh and Ricardo wasn't shite he was lacking game time, played a different style, not given a decent chance and hounded out of the team by blinkered fans. ricardo is a keeper that's not shite then? you think he should not be replaced? As Mr T would say, what you talking about fool! Sven picks the team! If the fans picked the team it would be alot different, not just ricardo replaced. "hounded out by blinkered fans". So you think sven thought " the fans want ricardo out, i will now do that, for the fans "? Sven picks the team not the fans. just shown your football knowledge as it is. No he's not shit but if we can get better in this summer (and i see no reason why we can't) then he should be just back-up next season. No, sven probably did not choose to drop ricardo because the fans wanted ricardo out, but it's fairly likely that he dropped ricardo because the fans were getting on ricardo's back and demoralising both him and the entire team - why did you think bamba came out and told the fans to lay off ricardo? It's quite likely that it's because the players had confidence in ricardo but his confidence was being destroyed by blinkered fans who had a go at him despite him doing nothing wrong, this affected the confidence of the rest of the team and resulted in us under-performing and blowing our chances of the play-offs.
ACF Posted 2 May 2011 Posted 2 May 2011 Was it me, or did our slump coincide with Abe going out of the team?
Ashby Posted 2 May 2011 Posted 2 May 2011 Sven has had money this season - he has failed. How many other champsionship managers have had the money he has had - lets hope with however much more money he gets - he does his job next season!
Kitchandro Posted 2 May 2011 Posted 2 May 2011 Oh dear, some people are still trying to argue Ricardo's case Really, just let it go. 'He played a different style'. Yeh, a shit style. You certainly need a bit of fight to get out of this division, we'll also need quality.
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