To the Wellens doubters....

[shen]

If we win all of ours 1-0, then they can't do that...

Touché

[CountesthorpeFox]

Threads like this really make my blood boil at times. I will never understand the problems some people have with Wellens. Everybody has a right to their own opinion but its becoming ridiculous to me. At the end of the day he was voted, by Leicester fans as the player of the season last season so its just a noisy minority that constantly under rate and under value his contribution on here. Every team has a variety of fans with varying opinions but our fans never ever fail to amaze and frustrate me. Just like the people who constantly slagged off Yakubu. The guy comes in scores at a rate of better than 1 in 2 and gets slagged off for fun. 'cause hes apparently lazy and people seem to think that every player should have the work rate of Dickov without realising that Yak had the natural ability to position himself for goalscoring oppurtunities, something the vast majority of our strikers have lacked over the past few years. But no, hes lazy and paid too much so everyone wants a headless chicken.

I'm aware i've completely gone off on a tangent.

AND for the person/people slagging off his reaction after the Baker tackle, please please wake up. For me it was an act of intelligence. He will have known that the referee will have been looking to "even things up" given the oppurtunity and there was a split second when the penny dropped with Wellens that he could get Baker sent off, so rolled round Cristiano Ronaldo style and got the guy sent off. I would love it if this part of the game didnt exist but it does.

Rant over.

[Brown Fox]

As you ask yes, I would. I'd at least have found it entertaining instead of nearly being lulled to sleep by so much negative, unambitious football that seems to have been designed especially for the Babylon's of this world given how much he seems to mock anyone who actually champions the idea of playing football and scoring goals. .

As for the magical 45 times 1-0, I presume you were one of the characters who said we'd win every game after Christmas and then, when that didn't work, that we'd win every game from February 1 etc.

We didn't any more than we've ever consistently "won at home and drawn away". And we didn't "seriously" have a good enough goal difference last season yet even now we don't seem to have learned that it could be worth a point at the finish.

The fact was that Coventry were awful. That we coped 10 against 11 against them for so long only emphasised the point because they still hardly raised a canter let alone a gallop.

I didn't hear more than the ocasional signs of life from the Coventry fans I was sat among. People were up and off to the concourse on absolutely any pretext, they were so disenchanted, although there's no saying Babs couldn't make a case for the brilliance of it all.

I have acknowledged several times that Sven has categorically improved our defence and that we'll concede fewer goals. We could hardly fail to improve our defence and with a centre-back as coach I'm hardly surprised it's been given priority. But even Rob Kelly had us defending stoutly enough at times. He did it by hardly played any attackers and that's exactly how we seemed to approach it again on Saturday.

In fact I'm a bit surprised our team was allowed quite so much freedom and that Sven didn't actually have the pitch marked with an extra white line to indicate to our players just how far forward they were allowed to go "and no further".

Cos anything beyond 30 yards from their goal and our front player would have to turn back, look around and physically wait for one of their players to lunge in and give us a throw in.

Even the one goal we did get was scored by our right back. And that prompted a sigh of relief, cos, Nugent apart, I couldn't imagine who the hell might score. We were just as boring as Kelly's sides except we passed the ball better.

Professional job? There was plenty of professional defending no question. But Vassell getting sent off wasn't professional, nor was Bamba's protracted altercation with the refereee and if you're really talking professional I didn't like em leaving that black lad to conduct the orchestra in midfield for Coventry without delegating someone to keep him quiet.

For the Thais considerable outlay we had about three worthwhile shots and thankfully managed to score once against a dismally poor side.

Our entertainment value was almost entirely provided by our fans behind the goal and otherwise the game itself was entirely forgettable as a spectacle. Professional? It's a good job we're not staging plays in London. It would be a short run on that evidence.

And as for Coventry - their fans said it all by saying nothing. It was like being at a funeral and well it might turn out. Cos the club looked dead and all but buried to me. Chants of empty seats, empty seats. only testified that Saturday was probably about normal for entertainment value.

Can I just ask why you are completely neglecting the fact we showed last season that we could score from all over the pitch and that we scored goals for fun at home? Because you make it sound like we're going down or are going to do a Swansea under Sousa. We saw last season that we can score so could you please address that? 1st game of the season, we're in the championship, we've got all the pressure in the world on us and we win but all you can do is complain because we stayed solid and that we didn't show enough attacking verve after playing near on a full game with only 10 men. Give it a rest.

[Corky]

Thrac I agree it wasn't entertaining. Palace away last year was. How many points did we earn from that game? Three fewer than from yesterdays.

Not every game will be thrilling. We'll have a few that are dull and uninspiring. But we should still have plenty that are very entertaining.

We scored a lot of goals last season. We also let in far too many, mostly away from home.

We can play better for sure, we will play better. But we've got three points on the board and a clean sheet.

[CountesthorpeFox]

Thrac I agree it wasn't entertaining. Palace away last year was. How many points did we earn from that game? Three fewer than from yesterdays.

Not every game will be thrilling. We'll have a few that are dull and uninspiring. But we should still have plenty that are very entertaining.

We scored a lot of goals last season. We also let in far too many, mostly away from home.

We can play better for sure, we will play better. But we've got three points on the board and a clean sheet.

Agreed. Lets try and distance ourselves while we can from becoming deluded Arsenal style fans who think the way you play is more important than winning trophies.

[marbelladave]

Busy day with the family, but for those of you who replied, a few comments before bed......

Bit off topic mate but in a lot of your posts I see you worry about not having a proper CDM that breaks up play etc. Do you think Fernandes is the player that you've been wanting? (genuine question this isn't sarcastic! )

For some time, the whole of last season and beyond, I have complained about the lack of cover in front of our back 4, that space 30-40 yards out where the opposition are given all the time in the world to play the ball around and take pot shots, usually past an extremely fallible Weale.

Abe is not the answer, he does not hold his position at all well, he gets drawn forward too easily and bypassed, King (under Pearson) held position well but lacks a real physical presence and to answer your question, Fernandez looks too good an allround player to be given that role though he is easily the best equipped to do so.

My solution, for what it is worth, is to pair King and Fernandez as the 'holding' players though both given licence to get forward as appropriate.

Agree with this. Wellens don't have the same impact on a game as Fernandes had against Cov. We need players like Fernandes and if I have to choose I keep Fernandes and sub Wellens during a match.

Remember that we were very lightweight in midfield before with Wellens as maestro.

Wellens has supposed to be the focus of our midfield fo years, and our midfield has been largely pants for years, specially against decent opposition. This is not about yesterday, this is about 2 seasons of poor performances that have cost us dear, when are we going to realise this and do something about it,

I find it amazing that we can all easily summarise what the season will behold based on one away game. Half the team have only arrived about a month or so ago. More competitive games under their belt and a little more confidence, and I bet my bottom dollar that we'll not only be combative and tight at the back, but we'll see a bit more adventure in the middle of the pitch too.

Yes we are lacking a striker with clinical finishing, and with pace and panache, but the goals will come from elsewhere too. We'll be highly dependant like last year for them to come from all across the pitch. Hopefully corners won't be an issue any more, and maybe freekicks will improve now there's a little more competition in that area.

But questioning an entire season based on one game is top of looney tree, with the danger of falling a long way down.

I am sure you a right and with more games we will get better but I feel a more creative and attacking midfield is even more important than another striker. Sarurdays performance was not great but we did win and that keeps the pressure off while we try to find out most effective line ups.

Is it just me that has always thought of Neil Danns as a winger rather than a central midfielder??

I feel he is primarily an attacking player whichever way you look at it. I would like to see him given the free role in front of Fernandez and King playing as described above.

[shen]

I am sure you a right and with more games we will get better but I feel a more creative and attacking midfield is even more important than another striker. Sarurdays performance was not great but we did win and that keeps the pressure off while we try to find out most effective line ups.

We scored plenty of goals last season with the same midfield personnel we have now And we've only gone on to enhance that personnel. If King and Gallagher can emulate their tallies from last season and Danns, Johnson, Oakley, Wellens, Abe, Fernandes all chip in with a few we'll carry a threat all around the team. As long as there is a willingness to run and create spaces, the likes of Wellens, King and Johnson should be good enough to create chances.

[Thracian]

Threads like this really make my blood boil at times. I will never understand the problems some people have with Wellens. Everybody has a right to their own opinion but its becoming ridiculous to me. At the end of the day he was voted, by Leicester fans as the player of the season last season so its just a noisy minority that constantly under rate and under value his contribution on here. Every team has a variety of fans with varying opinions but our fans never ever fail to amaze and frustrate me. Just like the people who constantly slagged off Yakubu. The guy comes in scores at a rate of better than 1 in 2 and gets slagged off for fun. 'cause hes apparently lazy and people seem to think that every player should have the work rate of Dickov without realising that Yak had the natural ability to position himself for goalscoring oppurtunities, something the vast majority of our strikers have lacked over the past few years. But no, hes lazy and paid too much so everyone wants a headless chicken.

I'm aware i've completely gone off on a tangent.

AND for the person/people slagging off his reaction after the Baker tackle, please please wake up. For me it was an act of intelligence. He will have known that the referee will have been looking to "even things up" given the oppurtunity and there was a split second when the penny dropped with Wellens that he could get Baker sent off, so rolled round Cristiano Ronaldo style and got the guy sent off. I would love it if this part of the game didnt exist but it does.

Rant over.

a) I didn't vote for Wellens as player of the season because the bloke virtually opts out when it came to shooting and we need people to score from central midfield.

b) People votd for Blair and Brown but i didn't make em right.

c) Act of intelligence, act of cynicism, calculated gamesmanship? Excuse it how you like. I don't like to see it from us or anyone else. But just because others do it doesn't mean we have to set our standards by them.

[Thracian]

Can I just ask why you are completely neglecting the fact we showed last season that we could score from all over the pitch and that we scored goals for fun at home? Because you make it sound like we're going down or are going to do a Swansea under Sousa. We saw last season that we can score so could you please address that? 1st game of the season, we're in the championship, we've got all the pressure in the world on us and we win but all you can do is complain because we stayed solid and that we didn't show enough attacking verve after playing near on a full game with only 10 men. Give it a rest.

This wasn't a home game. It wasn't our home form that prevented us getting promoted last season it was our lack of ambition and often our lack of goals, away from home. Even against Derby last year we totalled dominated the first half and then went so negative we might have ended up with a draw.

I didn't say, think or imply that we would go down. I said we should think about our goal difference and score enough goals to make it count as an extra poiint.

We won just five of our away games last season and were so negative sometimes it was appalling to watch. You might be happy just to collect the points any way we can get them but I want to watch us playing some football as well.

[Nick]

a) I didn't vote for Wellens as player of the season because the bloke virtually opts out when it came to shooting and we need people to score from central midfield.

b) People votd for Blair and Brown but i didn't make em right.

c) Act of intelligence, act of cynicism, calculated gamesmanship? Excuse it how you like. I don't like to see it from us or anyone else. But just because others do it doesn't mean we have to set our standards by them.

a) I have to acknowledge he is lacking in this department - though I'm not sure this was an area of play inserted by the manager into his job description.

b) Let's not bring politics into this Thrac football is your strength here, trust me.

c) Completely agree with this - much rather be an example of footballing integrity than a person who says "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

ci) I'm not sure now how much contact Vassell made with his opponent for the first sending off.

cii) Looked like Wellens might be guilty of over simulating any injury however it looked like the second sending off actually caught Wellens, no?

Lastly, I think there is no smoke without fire. Thracian's interpretation of a game / team / formation often offers a perspective from leftfield - that doesn't mean he is always wrong or always right. His points are often better argued than most and I feel he brings balance to this forum where footballing matters are concerned. Offer your contributions and opinions to his thoughts but some of the tone on here regarding some of his comments is a bit harsh and is making some uncomfortable reading, could we debate with a tad more respect for a poster of Thracian's reputation please?

[Thracian]

a) I have to acknowledge he is lacking in this department - though I'm not sure this was an area of play inserted by the manager into his job description.

b) Let's not bring politics into this Thrac football is your strength here, trust me.

c) Completely agree with this - much rather be an example of footballing integrity than a person who says "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

ci) I'm not sure now how much contact Vassell made with his opponent for the first sending off.

cii) Looked like Wellens might be guilty of over simulating any injury however it looked like the second sending off actually caught Wellens, no?

Lastly, I think there is no smoke without fire. Thracian's interpretation of a game / team / formation often offers a perspective from leftfield - that doesn't mean he is always wrong or always right. His points are often better argued than most and I feel he brings balance to this forum where footballing matters are concerned. Offer your contributions and opinions to his thoughts but some of the tone on here regarding some of his comments is a bit harsh and is making some uncomfortable reading, could we debate with a tad more respect for a poster of Thracian's reputation please?

Thanks for your kind words.

As for:-

b) It might have sounded that way but this was actually an off-the-cuff remark meant to convey that just because a lot of people vote for something doesn't necessrily mean they're right. I could have used a good few Tory leaders for my example just as easily!

[Nick]

Thanks for your kind words.

As for:-

b) It might have sounded that way but this was actually an off-the-cuff remark meant to convey that just because a lot of people vote for something doesn't necessrily mean they're right. I could have used a good few Tory leaders for my example just as easily!

[Thracian]

We scored plenty of goals last season with the same midfield personnel we have now And we've only gone on to enhance that personnel. If King and Gallagher can emulate their tallies from last season and Danns, Johnson, Oakley, Wellens, Abe, Fernandes all chip in with a few we'll carry a threat all around the team. As long as there is a willingness to run and create spaces, the likes of Wellens, King and Johnson should be good enough to create chances.

The goalscorers, King and Gallagher weren't playing til the end. It was the non-goalscorers Wellens and Abe who got the nod. QED really. And I saw very little willingness to run and create chances. It all stopped - and pretty emphatically - 30 yards out. As for King scoring as many as last season, I doubt he'll get the chance and I wouldn't expect too many from all the others you mentioned either, and certainly not Wellens and Abe. They have their strengths but goalscoring doesn't seem to be one of them.

[Guest Col city fan]

Thanks for your kind words.

As for:-

b) It might have sounded that way but this was actually an off-the-cuff remark meant to convey that just because a lot of people vote for something doesn't necessrily mean

they're right. I could have used a good few Tory leaders for my example just as easily!

Yuck! Thus thread has suddenly become a Nick/Thracian love fest! Can we resume normal sarcasm immediately please.....

[Guest ttfn]

This wasn't a home game. It wasn't our home form that prevented us getting promoted last season it was our lack of ambition and often our lack of goals, away from home. Even against Derby last year we totalled dominated the first half and then went so negative we might have ended up with a draw.

I didn't say, think or imply that we would go down. I said we should think about our goal difference and score enough goals to make it count as an extra poiint.

We won just five of our away games last season and were so negative sometimes it was appalling to watch. You might be happy just to collect the points any way we can get them but I want to watch us playing some football as well.

Thracian, as it goes I agree with you about being disappointed with our approach on Saturday, particularly after we went 1-0 up. Wellens was the main culprit, messing about with the ball on the touchline when we had men in the box as early as 70 minutes in.

But for years you have been telling us that we needed to score 75 goals to be promoted. Last year we scored 76 and ended up 10th. That's 15 more than under Pearson, but 5 places lower.

As others have said, I have no doubt that in time we will score plenty of goals. Let's not get carried away.

[thezagnworb]

For me we still only defend as a team, we certainly don't attack that way and I cannot believe our owners have still not been persuaded to address the idea of getting an attacking coach.

I found it depressing to see Fazakerly. Stowell and Sven in our technical area because they've been here a while now, and we still don't play with any real purpose, tempo or imagination in attack, home or away.

Excuse-makers will point to us having Vassell sent off but that only exposed how short we are of people with pace and the ability to play effectively out wide.

Our limitations are so glaring - we simply don't get enough players forward fast enough when we have the ball. At least twice the ball went low across the edge of their six yard box and no-one was able to take advantage. Fernandez was closest but it's not about one, we should have two or three people driving themselves into he box and yet the problem was just the same last season.

Greetings everyone read a bit on here before but making my first post today....Sorry if this is going back over old ground a bit here but after reading this I had to register and post................. The above quote speaks for itself ok

What I have to say quite simply to that is we had 10 men for half an hour longer than Cov !!!!! And even at 10 v 10 you will alwys maintain your defensive structure and will obviously be limited on attacking options !!!!! WTF are you on mate ????? And as for even mentioning being out the top 6 and goal difference after ONE game ....Come on !!!!!

As for the original topic I thought Wellens played very well and more than played his part in the win ..... However ... not the best on the pitch today and not our best player at the club !!!!

Think the first midfielder on my team sheet would be Yuki tbf and lets hope Fernandes can produce this week in week out too !!! Kingy looked good when he came on as well I thought ...Some decent probing runs

All in all a good three points and team performance !!!!

[RumbleFox]

This wasn't a home game. It wasn't our home form that prevented us getting promoted last season it was our lack of ambition and often our lack of goals, away from home. Even against Derby last year we totalled dominated the first half and then went so negative we might have ended up with a draw.

I didn't say, think or imply that we would go down. I said we should think about our goal difference and score enough goals to make it count as an extra poiint.

We won just five of our away games last season and were so negative sometimes it was appalling to watch. You might be happy just to collect the points any way we can get them but I want to watch us playing some football as well.

Is this serious? Did you sit there after you wrote this and think "well, that's a good post, I am very proud of myself. What a smashing little fella I am"? We were down to ten men after 10 minutes you complete goon ball. I was going to write a long ranting post but to be honest it's unecessary as your arguement is so flawed it needs little response. We were down to ten men after ten minutes and so this game was not of the norm. Wait for a few games before you start spreading your ridiculous bile please.

Well done Foxes. COME ON!!

X

[Fox92]

People state that they sometimes don't like Wellens because he doesn't shoot. However, if he were to constantly shoot, and miss, then people would be moaning just as much 'ohh what's he done that for' etc.

Yes, I'd like to see him shoot a little more because he has the skill and technique (as seen during pre-match warm up) to score goals. But, when it comes down to the side thats not his game and players such as Danns will score the goals instead.

You're right about King, he's also inconsistent. But I think I'd rather have King on top form than Wellens on top form. Different drinks for different needs.

Ok, I wouldn't, but we all have our opinions.

Threads like this really make my blood boil at times. I will never understand the problems some people have with Wellens. Everybody has a right to their own opinion but its becoming ridiculous to me. At the end of the day he was voted, by Leicester fans as the player of the season last season so its just a noisy minority that constantly under rate and under value his contribution on here. Every team has a variety of fans with varying opinions but our fans never ever fail to amaze and frustrate me. Just like the people who constantly slagged off Yakubu. The guy comes in scores at a rate of better than 1 in 2 and gets slagged off for fun. 'cause hes apparently lazy and people seem to think that every player should have the work rate of Dickov without realising that Yak had the natural ability to position himself for goalscoring oppurtunities, something the vast majority of our strikers have lacked over the past few years. But no, hes lazy and paid too much so everyone wants a headless chicken.

I'm aware i've completely gone off on a tangent.

AND for the person/people slagging off his reaction after the Baker tackle, please please wake up. For me it was an act of intelligence. He will have known that the referee will have been looking to "even things up" given the oppurtunity and there was a split second when the penny dropped with Wellens that he could get Baker sent off, so rolled round Cristiano Ronaldo style and got the guy sent off. I would love it if this part of the game didnt exist but it does.

Rant over.

Spot on with that post.

[B52]

a) I didn't vote for Wellens as player of the season because the bloke virtually opts out when it came to shooting and we need people to score from central midfield.

I am a little bit curious why Wellens don't shoot so often. As I recall it was Gally and Wellens training freekicks and therefor held yuki out of doing freekicks because Gally and Wellens were so good at it.

[Fox92]

I am a little bit curious why Wellens don't shoot so often. As I recall it was Gally and Wellens training freekicks and therefor held yuki out of doing freekicks because Gally and Wellens were so good at it.

They are both technically gifted players. Gallagher did mention (on the radio) that he asked Yuki to practise at the training ground but Yuki said no. Wellens' crossing is fantastic anyway, I think he is the best crosser at the club.

[B52]

They are both technically gifted players. Gallagher did mention (on the radio) that he asked Yuki to practise at the training ground but Yuki said no. Wellens' crossing is fantastic anyway, I think he is the best crosser at the club.

So Wellens and Gallagher should switch place. And wonder where Yuki practice freekicks.....

[sbfox]

This wasn't a home game, it was another away game and another excuse for the sort of tactics by Wellens which seem to make him a hero to some. I believe in winning games with a bit of style and panache - not by running the time down and resorting to the sort of cynical gamesmanship that makes it a waste of time bothering to watch.

Look, for all your 'pretty, attacking football', 99.9% of our fans would rather see us promoted winning 1-0 or 2-0 every week, rather than alternating between winning and losing 5-4 and 3-2. If we're winning 1-0 at Upton Park and all our players are time-wasting, holding the ball up in the corner flag, you seriously want us to be flooding forward in search of a second? Get real.

[Guest Col city fan]

Look, for all your 'pretty, attacking football', 99.9% of our fans would rather see us promoted winning 1-0 or 2-0 every week, rather than alternating between winning and losing 5-4 and 3-2. If we're winning 1-0 at Upton Park and all our players are time-wasting, holding the ball up in the corner flag, you seriously want us to be flooding forward in search of a second? Get real.

Genuinely surprised...Thracian really is talking out his ass at the moment. I agree with him that we do still look pedestrian going forward - I would have certainly brought on Lloyd Dyer on Saturday to run into the channels with his pace and to keep the ball. However, to win one-nil away and to restrict the opposition to very few good chances (if any really) is a good, combatative, defensive display. Its a points business Thrac...and we got three of em

[Fox92]

Look, for all your 'pretty, attacking football', 99.9% of our fans would rather see us promoted winning 1-0 or 2-0 every week, rather than alternating between winning and losing 5-4 and 3-2. If we're winning 1-0 at Upton Park and all our players are time-wasting, holding the ball up in the corner flag, you seriously want us to be flooding forward in search of a second? Get real.

Agree.

I love it when we win 0-1 away from home.

[marbelladave]

We scored plenty of goals last season with the same midfield personnel we have now And we've only gone on to enhance that personnel. If King and Gallagher can emulate their tallies from last season and Danns, Johnson, Oakley, Wellens, Abe, Fernandes all chip in with a few we'll carry a threat all around the team. As long as there is a willingness to run and create spaces, the likes of Wellens, King and Johnson should be good enough to create chances.

Far from the whole story! Yes we scored a fair few goals last season but they were mostly at home and mostly against poorer sides. When it came to the crunch we failed consistently against the better sides, even with ace goal poacher Yakubu in our side. Ultimately it was these poor performances in the last couple of months of the season that cost that cost us a chance of the playoffs.

It could not have been more clear, effective when we were able to bully the poorer sides, totally ineffective when we be came up against better sides. Quite obvious really.

So Wellens and Gallagher should switch place. And wonder where Yuki practice freekicks.....

I have been suggesting that Gallagher be tried in the central 'playmaker' role for a long, long time and now, with Fernandez and King/Abe behind him to do the dirty work, this might just be the right time.

Look, for all your 'pretty, attacking football', 99.9% of our fans would rather see us promoted winning 1-0 or 2-0 every week, rather than alternating between winning and losing 5-4 and 3-2. If we're winning 1-0 at Upton Park and all our players are time-wasting, holding the ball up in the corner flag, you seriously want us to be flooding forward in search of a second? Get real.

I don't think anyone (apart from Thracian in his more whimsical moments) is suggesting all out attack all of the time. The point is quite simply that if we are going to beat the better sides consistently then we need to be much more agressive in our attacking play than has been the case for sometime.

Sure there will be times when we need to slow things down and defend strongly, that's a given but I do not want to see the pattern of last season repeated this.

Saturday's game was a prime example, we gained total control of the game by the start of the second half and took the lead early on. Coventry were in disarray but we made no serious attempt to get a second, in fact we pretty much shut up shop. Last season, had this happened, our shonky defence would have conceded the equaliser during Coventry's rally towards the end and this time around, despite our much improved defense I am concerned that against the better sides it will still happen