Haydos Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 First of all there is another thread concerning our defending but it seemed to become a mish mash of people just saying who they thought was bad. In the end all of our defenders were probably mentioned numerous times. I just wanted to look at it from a slightly different perspective. Mods, I understand if you merge though. We've seen a fair few decent performances from all our individuals at the back. This leads me to think that personnel isn't or shouldn't be an issue. I believe there is a problem based on the fact that we have basically what is a brand new defence, none of whom have had enough time to form a partnership as a back 5 (inc keeper). I think this develops over time and is much easier if you have 1 or 2 new additions but becomes a totally different task when not only the starting back 5 are new, but also all of the back up. As I mentioned, the other thread boiled down to mainly slating individuals, is that genuinely how most really feel or was it just venting (because each of our defenders seem to be poorly rated by a number, with the possible exception of Konchesky) and there is actually a more complex issue at hand?
Happy Fox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 The defense on the whole isn't a problem imo, the only weak link is Peltier get a solid RB and those problems will disappear, the fact that our midfield is weak puts more pressure on the defense so we really need a defensive midfielder. Then the problems of conceding goals should be alleviated.
Haydos Posted 22 March 2012 Author Posted 22 March 2012 The defense on the whole isn't a problem imo, the only weak link is Peltier get a solid RB and those problems will disappear, the fact that our midfield is weak puts more pressure on the defense so we really need a defensive midfielder. Then the problems of conceding goals should be alleviated. Peltier has concerned me from the start tbh. I saw him for a few games and his positioning seemed very iffy, prone to ball watching as well. I didn't see much of him when people were saying he was our best player so I have nothing to go on. Another one that peoples' opinion seems split on though. Bamba is the other concern. He seems to have become a worse player. I didn't see him get caught out of position this much last season, although the poor decision making was apparent. Still think he can do a job but if we were to have our current defence next season I would have Mills and St Leger as my starting pair.
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 I think its a mixture of all 3 options in all honesty
Happy Fox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Peltier has concerned me from the start tbh. I saw him for a few games and his positioning seemed very iffy, prone to ball watching as well. I didn't see much of him when people were saying he was our best player so I have nothing to go on. Another one that peoples' opinion seems split on though. Bamba is the other concern. He seems to have become a worse player. I didn't see him get caught out of position this much last season, although the poor decision making was apparent. Still think he can do a job but if we were to have our current defence next season I would have Mills and St Leger as my starting pair. Likewise but NP is to stubborn to see that, the defense next season I would like too see Gunter Mills St Ledger Konchesky
NeilyBoy Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 I elected not to vote because I feel it's a bit from column a, a bit from column b and a bit from column c: Personnel: We're spoiled for choice at CB, but we need to sort out our wide defending, particularly on the right-hand side. Lack of cohesion: As I mentioned above we're spoiled for choice at CB but this has caused selection problems and we've been unable to find a permanent pairing that really works. Other areas: As has been mentioned elsewhere in abundance; our midfield don't do enough to help out the defence, leaving us flat-footed. Some people think our strikers are a defensive frailty too but they'll never be pleased imo.
topharry123 Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 St Ledger, Morgan & Mills. All have enough quality to be playing for a top end championship team or a lower end premier league team. Konchesky has been good but i have always felt like he is missing something. Peltier looked great at the start but watching him more i'm not sure he's the best we could have in that position. I think we may need a new right back, but personally i think if the midfield was tighter then we would leak a lot less goals. We need a Scott Parker in there !!
ScouseFox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Sooner rather than later we have to stop blaming individual errors etc and realise there is something fundamentally wrong in terms of the defence at the club. We have, probably, one of the best goalkeepers in this league. He's been great for pretty much the whole season. Yet no matter who plays in front of him, they're almost always bad. Konch, Kennedy, Pelts, Paintsil, Mills, Tunch, Bamba, SSL, Morgan. There is massively enough quality there, IMO, to perform well at this level. But for some reason, one I'm not sure of, they're not. The blame has to lie in part to tactics and management, surely? Matt Mills, for example, is clearly a good defender in this division. Wes Morgan was in the team of the year last season in a great Forest defence. Bamba was supposedly targeted by PSG or whoever for £5m+ in the summer. Paintsil is the captain of a country who were penalty kicks away from a World Cup semi final just 18 months ago. These are not bad players. But put together, in our team, with our systems and management, and they seem to have become bad players. Something's not right. Sort it out Nige.
L4EV Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Your back 5 looks very good on paper. Schmeichel in goal who will likely be a Premier League keeper in years to come, Peltier a good prospect, Morgan who was part of the PFA team of the year last season, St Ledger a solid defender and a well respected ROI international, and Koncheskey who is meant to be one of your best players. You also have players like Mills and Bamba who have allegedly been looked at by Premier League clubs (these 2 are likely overrated though). It would seem your midfield must have some part to play (Wellens?), either that of tactics.
Kitchandro Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 I think its a mixture of all 3 options in all honesty Agreed I've watched these players all season, most of them I've seen play a number of times before this season as well, and I just don't think they're very good as individuals. I've never rated Paintsil or Morgan, always thought they've been headless chickens. On a bad day Bamba is the same but in many games before the Cup of Nations he was brilliant. Konchesky is good enough but struggles against pace. Peltier's been very poor for some time now. Mills has had as many poor games as good ones. He's slow, has cost us goals with poor clearances and is indisciplined. St Ledger is inconsistent. Kennedy? Tunchev? I don't think there's a massive amount of quality there - the common demoninator is they're pretty well known and have a lot of hype surrounding them and their careers. Over-hype in the main. But the other 2 reasons are also very valid points
Bugg Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Your back 5 looks very good on paper. Schmeichel in goal who will likely be a Premier League keeper in years to come, Peltier a good prospect, Morgan who was part of the PFA team of the year last season, St Ledger a solid defender and a well respected ROI international, and Koncheskey who is meant to be one of your best players. You also have players like Mills and Bamba who have allegedly been looked at by Premier League clubs (these 2 are likely overrated though). It would seem your midfield must have some part to play (Wellens?), either that of tactics. Peltier is 25, not like he's some 17 year old thrown into the team. His positioning his awful which has lead to a lot of our goals being conceded down our right hand side. He got away with being done on the right hand side in the dying minutes yesterday which could have won Blackpool the game. He is a poor player.
Haydos Posted 22 March 2012 Author Posted 22 March 2012 Your back 5 looks very good on paper. Schmeichel in goal who will likely be a Premier League keeper in years to come, Peltier a good prospect, Morgan who was part of the PFA team of the year last season, St Ledger a solid defender and a well respected ROI international, and Koncheskey who is meant to be one of your best players. You also have players like Mills and Bamba who have allegedly been looked at by Premier League clubs (these 2 are likely overrated though). It would seem your midfield must have some part to play (Wellens?), either that of tactics. This is why I think there is a bigger problem at hand. I don't know if we've been specifically told to play with a high line or with defenders getting forward but it's killing us. I can't believe they would be under instructions from Pearson to play in that manner. I accept the cover from the 4 in front of them isn't the best but that shouldn't be a direct cause of so many problems for us, there is still a back 4 there after all. Another thing is the panic that seems to set in around our box when we're being attacked directly.
Happy Fox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Maybe it is a management problem? come on these defenders aren't bad on the whole Pelts is the only weak link imo. Still think the midfielder is culpable particularly from a defensive viewpoint i.e the central midfield, I wonder what the stats would be like if Yuki was in the team.
Kitchandro Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 If Peltier was our only weak link why has the centre back pairing changed so many times? It's obviously not great if 1. It keeps changing and 2. The most recent one has been involved in the worst run in terms of conceding goals.
Saxondale Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 If you can insert an 'All of the above' option, that's what I'd click!
Burmesefox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Personally I have yet to be impressed by Peltier., I think he could be a good player in time but lacks at this level at the moment. I find he backs off going forward and constantly is caught upfield when the opposition break with him out of position - mix that with Sol "Freerole" Bamba and it's a kamikaze mission to leak goals. I would still like to see Pantsil have a run out at right back. I would like to see NP and Mills bury the hatchet and get Mills back playing. Mills was superb for Reading and isnt a bad player at all despite all this upsubstantiated tosh that is being spread across the forum about him. Konch has been one of the players of the season and SSL has been solid too. NP needs to realise that you can act like Fergie when you get Fergies results. For now, he needs to make the peace and "manage" the situation. Pantsil SSL Mills Konch I'd put money on it that we would leak less goals than the last 20 games
Trav Le Bleu Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 We have, probably, one of the best goalkeepers in this league. He's been great for pretty much the whole season. Yet no matter who plays in front of him, they're almost always bad. Konch, Kennedy, Pelts, Paintsil, Mills, Tunch, Bamba, SSL, Morgan. There is massively enough quality there, IMO, to perform well at this level. But for some reason, one I'm not sure of, they're not. The blame has to lie in part to tactics and management, surely? Matt Mills, for example, is clearly a good defender in this division. Wes Morgan was in the team of the year last season in a great Forest defence. Bamba was supposedly targeted by PSG or whoever for £5m+ in the summer. Paintsil is the captain of a country who were penalty kicks away from a World Cup semi final just 18 months ago. Yep, our defence should be the best in the Championship, but it isn't. I want to know how Pantsil has suddenly become such a bad player that he can't get into the team? How many chances was he given, I think 3-4 under Sven and none under Pearson. Remember also that first SSL was unsettled at the club and then Mills, or defence had never been "a unit" all season. I think bringing Morgan in has only exasperated affairs. Normally competition for places is healthy, but at the moment we're changing the back four so often, because there are so many options and no one is making themselves undroppable, that we don't have a defence that is used to playing together. There's also the well-worn issue of a defensive midfielder, but even without a decent DM we shouldn't be as poor as we have been.
Burmesefox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Trav le Bleu, in agreement with you. Competition is healthy BUT when you have a situation whereby players are left out in the cold then it is not healthy at all. The ostracized players will fester, run feral, and poison the team camp. Mills and SSL have both fallen foul of NP and the result is than many of our fans have turned on them saying they are shit with bad attitudes and should never play for us again. SSL has turned this around but Pantsil is on teh fringes and he can't be too happy - bet he has a few private chats with Mills!
fox ache Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 Your back 5 looks very good on paper. Schmeichel in goal who will likely be a Premier League keeper in years to come, Peltier a good prospect, Morgan who was part of the PFA team of the year last season, St Ledger a solid defender and a well respected ROI international, and Koncheskey who is meant to be one of your best players. You also have players like Mills and Bamba who have allegedly been looked at by Premier League clubs (these 2 are likely overrated though). It would seem your midfield must have some part to play (Wellens?), either that of tactics. I will be ripped apart for saying this but......................... I think Kasper Schmeichel has also played a big part in a lot of the defensive errors this season. Yes, he is a fantastic shot stopper, and yes he will become a Premier keeper soon. But far too many times this season, when he has received the ball, he has waved everyone further up the pitch and `HOOFED` it as far as he can. This has now made the ball 50/50, and if their defence win the possession & counter attack,it usually ends as Beckford not even bothering to run back,and Wellens, Gallagher & Konchesky (who i rate) are easily beaten as they are too slow,of which usually ends in a goal attempt (all too often). Why can`t he just throw it to a player and keep the flow going??? As i said before, he is a great Keeper.....But a lot of goals have been conceeded due to that long kick
KidKunny Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 I personally don't blame Peltier at all, IMO he is a quality player. I think they just don't have that urge to but there body on the line...
Kitchandro Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 BTW, St Ledger was in a team that was relegated last season. Wes Morgan was in a good Forest side but also one that was relegated, one that was nearly relegated, and one that failed to get promoted from League 1 twice. (Remember his cock up against Yeovil in the play-offs?). Peltier was bought from another team who failed to win promotion from League 1 last season. The one promising thing is that Pearson had a very good defence in his first time here with players who weren't great. So there's still hope we can have a decent defence. But that's in spite of the players we've got, not because of them. I'm not sure why people think they are some of the best players in the Championship.
ScouseFox Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 BTW, St Ledger was in a team that was relegated last season. Wes Morgan was in a good Forest side but also one that was relegated, one that was nearly relegated, and one that failed to get promoted from League 1 twice. (Remember his cock up against Yeovil in the play-offs?). Peltier was bought from another team who failed to win promotion from League 1 last season. The one promising thing is that Pearson had a very good defence in his first time here with players who weren't great. So there's still hope we can have a decent defence. But that's in spite of the players we've got, not because of them. I'm not sure why people think they are some of the best players in the Championship. SSL - also in a small nation that qualified for Euro 2012, in no small part thanks to a great defence. Morgan - relegated god knows how many years ago, was in CCC team of the year literally 6 months ago. These defenders are clearly good enough (Morgan and Mills both finished in the play offs last season). Just together, here, they aren't. Weird.
Fox92 Posted 22 March 2012 Posted 22 March 2012 I agree with the post about Kasper. He is a decent shot stopper but he can be hesitant at times. Also, not necessarily a defence issue but too many players do not put a foot in/body on line. That annoys me, especially with the £££ they get.
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