Big changes NOT required in the summer....

[Danny the Fox 95]

IF Grant Holt is not really playing for Norwich or in there plans, i would love to see us go in for him!

Are you being serious?

[Bob Weasel Fox]

anywhere between 2-4 key signings this summer should leave us with a "jelled" side, tinker a bit with the "defend as a whole team" situation and next season you never know

[Haydos]

This is absolutely spot on......

There is a malais that runs very deep indeed and a substantial clearout is required to get rid of it. Without the clearout it will be near impossible to build a new squad with a proper team ethic, the basis for success.

The poor deluded souls who just want 'a winger or two' simply haven't got a clue, massive restructuring is required and whether NFP and his assistants are the people to make this happen remains to be seen......

The kind of 'minor tinkering' that appears to be the concensus in this thread and will leave the core of the squad untouched will lead to another frustrating and ultimately fruitless season.....

You seem to be getting more and more arrogant without any basis. You say everything like it's fact. I used to agree with a lot of things you said but you've become cynical and overly negative. Ability-wise, i'd say we were in a better position that the Cardiff/play-off season and we just don't have the team feeling and cohesion to go with it so I could call you some equally condescending name for thinking we need a clearout.

It's easy to say 'a massive clearout' is required because it's more than likely it won't happen. a) Because it's not possible to get rid of certain players on certain contracts and b) Because it's hard to get that many players in to replace them.

You know this and you're using it to cover all your bases. If we do have a few in and a few out in the summer and fail, you'll say 'I told you so' as if the only reason that can explain it is your reason and if we do alright/get a playoff spot/promotion you just won't say anything and it'll all be forgotten.

What have clearouts done for anyone? When has that ever worked?

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

Sell: Pantsil, Tunchev, Mills (All on alot of cash i'm guessing) Moussa

Retire: Howard

Loan out: Moore, Hopper, Schlupp (Depending on who we sign)

Turn to squad players: Wellens, Gally, Dyer, Pelts

Sign: 1 centre half, 1 right back, 1 holding midfielder, 1 winger, 1 target man.

[Raw Dykes]

This is absolutely spot on......

There is a malais that runs very deep indeed and a substantial clearout is required to get rid of it. Without the clearout it will be near impossible to build a new squad with a proper team ethic, the basis for success.

The poor deluded souls who just want 'a winger or two' simply haven't got a clue, massive restructuring is required and whether NFP and his assistants are the people to make this happen remains to be seen......

The kind of 'minor tinkering' that appears to be the concensus in this thread and will leave the core of the squad untouched will lead to another frustrating and ultimately fruitless season.....

Whilst I agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with the mentality of the squad, I disagree that only yet another major overhaul would be sufficient to fix it.

Here's my take on the situation:

I'm fairly sure the problem is simply an imbalance of positive and negative influences in the dressing room - a few too many negative influences/bad attitudes and a lack of positive influences/leaders. I believe it's possible to shift that balance completely with just a few changes:

You uproot the worst offender (I wonder if it could be Matt Mills?), and replace him with someone who could be the hardest working player in the team - a commanding centre-half who organises the defence and is a strong contender for captain selection. Then do the same once or twice more. Get rid of the player with the worst attitude from the remaining players and bring in more captain material; a proper midfield general, for example, then remove the player with the most negative attitude left in the squad and replace him with another true leader. I think now, after just three changes, you've broken the back of the problem. You might still be left with some relative bad apples, but any negative influences left over will have a much quieter voice, and are much more likely to be overruled. There's a good chance they'd even be swayed by the strong positive influences brought in.

When I say negative influence or bad attitude, I don't necessarily mean that literally. It could just be that some of the players in the squad are incompatible, or less compatible, with the majority of the rest, or are less responsive to the current manager and coaching staff.

We've already seen first hand that Pearson, like O'Neill, is a manager who can build a competitive hard-working team out of ordinary players who are made to play above their ability - a team that is more than the sum of its parts. I've seen evidence that he can get more out of some players who he may well not have bought himself. Beckford's performances suggest NP's man management skills are superior to Sven's. Danns is a similar example, although there are more factors involved such as him now playing in his true position. I'm sure NP knows exactly what's wrong with the squad - he just needs the close season to take the necessary action.

[Kitchandro]

Sell: Pantsil, Tunchev, Mills (All on alot of cash i'm guessing) Moussa

Retire: Howard

Loan out: Moore, Hopper, Schlupp (Depending on who we sign)

Turn to squad players: Wellens, Gally, Dyer, Pelts

Sign: 1 centre half, 1 right back, 1 holding midfielder, 1 winger, 1 target man.

[Langston]

Pearson and Walsh will get it right.

[marbelladave]

You seem to be getting more and more arrogant without any basis. You say everything like it's fact. I used to agree with a lot of things you said but you've become cynical and overly negative. Ability-wise, i'd say we were in a better position that the Cardiff/play-off season and we just don't have the team feeling and cohesion to go with it so I could call you some equally condescending name for thinking we need a clearout.

It's easy to say 'a massive clearout' is required because it's more than likely it won't happen. a) Because it's not possible to get rid of certain players on certain contracts and b) Because it's hard to get that many players in to replace them.

You know this and you're using it to cover all your bases. If we do have a few in and a few out in the summer and fail, you'll say 'I told you so' as if the only reason that can explain it is your reason and if we do alright/get a playoff spot/promotion you just won't say anything and it'll all be forgotten.

What have clearouts done for anyone? When has that ever worked?

There has been a strange kind of consistency this season, a lack of intensity, focus and team 'morale'. You suggest, if I am reading you right, that you think we have better players than in the playoff season but we do not have the 'team feeling and cohesion to go with it'......

I agree entirely......

The question is what is causing the problem? I look through the squad and see unprofessional behavior everywhere I look, from aggressive intent towards the officials, some players 'showboating' and playing for themselves, players not putting in the effort and an almost complete lack of team ethics.

Sure, when in the mood they put in some decent performances, but when they are called upon to battle with intensity and focus it just isn't there, and I genuinely do not know why.

I can only suggest it is down to the players 'as a group', it might be possible, as suggested above, that a couple of key players moved out might make all the difference but I don't agree (a big call) which is why I feel a 'massive clearout. is needed.

I totally understand the problems that this would cause and the difficulty in carrying it out but I would be very surprised if we can get promotion with the core group of players we have now.

[ibbosuk]

I read through this forum on people saying we need lots of new players. I disagree.

We've had too many players come and go in recent times mainly because we keep swapping managers. Its time we stuck with the manager and only tweak the team rather than an overhaul.

Here's my thoughts on players for next season:

GK - Schmeichel (Possibly get a new back up but i'd stick with Weale/Logan.)

RB - Peltier (A new right back to challenge Peltier as think Paintsil will be gone)

LB - Konchesky/Kennedy

CB - Bamba/Mills/SSL/Morgan/Tunch (5 x good defenders there so no need for another defensive overhaul. Work with what we have)

RM - Marshall/Gallagher

LM - Dyer (Another wide man required to challenge Dyer)

CM - Wellens/King/Drinkwater/Danns (Wellens the only questionable one there but maybe a sold defensive midfielder will help anyway)

CF - Beckford/Nugent/Schlupp/Waghorn/Vassell (5 x good strikers there inc Vassell which i know people may disagree with. He can be a good sqaud player to bring on)

In summary, i believe we need 4 players (RB, winger, centre mid, maybe keeper)

In Beckford/Nugent/Schlupp, i believe we'll cause anyone probs next season plus King/Drinkwater/Danns are all talented players.

Players like Peltier/Marshall/Mills will all be more consistent next year i believe

You are JOKING...... .........Teams been an utter embarrassment all season...........But first thing first (Fvck Off Pearson)

[chris_lcfc_85]

You are JOKING...... .........Teams been an utter embarrassment all season...........But first thing first (Fvck Off Pearson)

No im not JOKING. To say we've been an utter embarrassment is somewhat over the top!!

Do you still want Pearson out?

Also, all those in this thread that dont like Dyer, you still want him sold in the summer?

To say he offers nothing and isnt good enough is also a joke

[Guest Basildon Fox]

THere has to be quite a few changes no matter what happens from now until the end of the season. We have shipped 15 goals in the last 5 games before Saturday and even then our most excellent defence managed to be outpaced by Fatty Fryatt!! We desperately need a centreback with some pace and a right back who has positional awareness. We certainly need a winger or 2 as well as a defensive midfielder. The forwards we have are as good as any in this league.

This does not include several leaving on a free in the summer and one or two who may want to leave anyway. It all points to a pre-season of change for me. Imagine if we manage to fluke our way up through the play offs, this current team would get pasted nearly every week.

The reality is that we have not been good enough consistently this season so what makes people think it will be any different next season with virtually the same team?

[Blueforever]

3 or 4 players at the most are needed- more obviously if players leave

Don't worry to much about the defence it's fine...

I know at the moment we're shipping goals but we're playing two games a week and because of this the players aren't fully training...once we get the season over Pearson will be drilling them and they'll be a different class next season - I'd just add some covering players and new CB to replace Mills

Need some cover for players we have, in case they go in for two footed tackles to often

Attack - Nuge, Becks and Schlupp if we can keep these I'd add a target man for cover

[Babylon]

Financial Fair Play means that all our big earners come under threat, I can see Mills, SSL, Konchesky, Danns, Beckford, maybe even Nugent all on their way for financial reasons, assuming we can find buyers of course

FFP hasn't even been agreed fully yet, even if it did come into effect you can still make losses of £12m. For the first season it comes in it won't have that big a change on the team.

We have some fairly big earners out of contract in the summer (Weale, Logan, Vassell, Howard, Oakley & Tunchev) and with what looks like the impending departure of Mills and Pantsil you will have lost a lot of players without the match day squad even being altered.

You also have the possibility of Pearson moving on some players who may find themselves on the fringes next year such as Gallagher, Wellens and maybe even the likes of Waghorn and King.

I think there is plenty of room for changes without having to sell your better performers. There is always the chance of a bigger team coming in and buying one of them, but I don't think we would need to sell just yet.

[Babylon]

And I think the OP is correct, I said it myself a couple of months back.

Not many of the teams above us have got the better of us this year. I believe only Saints have gained more points against top half teams than we have. We certainly wouldn't have such a good record against top half teams if we were as bad as people make out.

Of course some tweaking is needed, some in personnel but for me mostly in attitude. We need to go into games against the bottom three with the same attitude we do against those above us. We need to realise the same effort is needed against doncaster as it is against Hull, Saints, West ham etc.

If we can change our attitude, and tweak the playing squad I think we can do it without the need for major changes.

[Guest Col city fan]

And I think the OP is correct, I said it myself a couple of months back.

Not many of the teams above us have got the better of us this year. I believe only Saints have gained more points against top half teams than we have. We certainly wouldn't have such a good record against top half teams if we were as bad as people make out.

Of course some tweaking is needed, some in personnel but for me mostly in attitude. We need to go into games against the bottom three with the same attitude we do against those above us. We need to realise the same effort is needed against doncaster as it is against Hull, Saints, West ham etc.

If we can change our attitude, and tweak the playing squad I think we can do it without the need for major changes.

This IMO..

[marbelladave]

And I think the OP is correct, I said it myself a couple of months back.

Not many of the teams above us have got the better of us this year. I believe only Saints have gained more points against top half teams than we have. We certainly wouldn't have such a good record against top half teams if we were as bad as people make out.

Of course some tweaking is needed, some in personnel but for me mostly in attitude. We need to go into games against the bottom three with the same attitude we do against those above us. We need to realise the same effort is needed against doncaster as it is against Hull, Saints, West ham etc.

If we can change our attitude, and tweak the playing squad I think we can do it without the need for major changes.

Whilst I agree with what you say in general terms I find it hard to see how we can improve our attitude with the matchday squad remaining largely unchanged. After all NFP has had 4+ months with the current outfit and there has been little real improvement.......

I understand that the manager will have a full pre-season, and hopefully time to offload those players who do not commit to the team ethic but from my observations this season there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed (see earlier post) and I do not think we will be truly competitive unless we do.

BTW. Thanks for the pointers on FFP, I will do a bit more research on this subject.....

[Babylon]

Whilst I agree with what you say in general terms I find it hard to see how we can improve our attitude with the matchday squad remaining largely unchanged. After all NFP has had 4+ months with the current outfit and there has been little real improvement.......

Maybe it's a only couple of players who have the bad attitude.

Maybe it's too many of them thinking it would be a walk in the palk, and that you only need to turn up against the lower teams.

Maybe team spirit is a big thing we've missed and that can only come with time. 11 strangers on the pitch aren't going to fight for each other as much as 11 friends.

The stat against Hull was frightening that their starting 11 contained more people who played for Leicester last season than ours did.... a change in the teams spirit can alter the attitude of people as well, you don't want to let your friends down.

You yourself (and others) have slammed Wellens for almost single handedly dragging the team down, so I would have thought you would think only a couple of changes could alter things if certain players are having such a negative effect.

[marbelladave]

Maybe it's a only couple of players who have the bad attitude.

Maybe it's too many of them thinking it would be a walk in the palk, and that you only need to turn up against the lower teams.

Maybe team spirit is a big thing we've missed and that can only come with time. 11 strangers on the pitch aren't going to fight for each other as much as 11 friends.

The stat against Hull was frightening that their starting 11 contained more people who played for Leicester last season than ours did.... a change in the teams spirit can alter the attitude of people as well, you don't want to let your friends down.

You yourself (and others) have slammed Wellens for almost single handedly dragging the team down, so I would have thought you would think only a couple of changes could alter things if certain players are having such a negative effect.

As you say, there are a number of possibilities as to why we fail to perform as a team. Almost everyone comments on 'attitude' and 'lack of consistency' but apart from vague assertions that 'Nigel will sort it out', no one has any worthwhile suggestions as to what is causing the issues and what can be done to sort it out.

As I have said elsewhere, I see a squad of players that is very ill at ease with itself. Whether it is our appalling 'chippieness' towards the officials, dreadful discipline (most Red Cards and most penalties against) and the tendency of several of our players to appear to be playing for themselves, I feel the evidence for this view is there in plain sight.

Throw in the off field issues that we do know about (Mills, SSL) and I see a club with deep problems, I have offered my view as to the cause of these issues and been roundly abused (not by yourself) for doing so, so I no longer make that arguement.

Incidentally if, as appears to be the case, you feel that 'only a couple' of players are the problem, I would be very interested to hear who you think they might be.......

[Number 6]

I think the mentality has been wrong this season, not the personnel. Nige alluded to it when he came, and when you look at the games we have struggled in, it's easy to see why. Unless it's been a top half team or a local rival, we've slipped up. A winning mentality needs instilling, and a bit of ruthlessness. 3 or 4 players would be plenty imo.

Not sure why people want Dyer to go either, he's been great recently. His main asset, pace, is still there in abundance and with a generally slow squad he's vital for us!

[marbelladave]

I think the mentality has been wrong this season, not the personnel. Nige alluded to it when he came, and when you look at the games we have struggled in, it's easy to see why. Unless it's been a top half team or a local rival, we've slipped up. A winning mentality needs instilling, and a bit of ruthlessness. 3 or 4 players would be plenty imo.

Not sure why people want Dyer to go either, he's been great recently. His main asset, pace, is still there in abundance and with a generally slow squad he's vital for us!

What?........

It is the personel that gives the group (squad) it's 'mentality'. How can it not be the players at fault?

[Guest Col city fan]

As you say, there are a number of possibilities as to why we fail to perform as a team. Almost everyone comments on 'attitude' and 'lack of consistency' but apart from vague assertions that 'Nigel will sort it out', no one has any worthwhile suggestions as to what is causing the issues and what can be done to sort it out.

As I have said elsewhere, I see a squad of players that is very ill at ease with itself. Whether it is our appalling 'chippieness' towards the officials, dreadful discipline (most Red Cards and most penalties against) and the tendency of several of our players to appear to be playing for themselves, I feel the evidence for this view is there in plain sight.

Throw in the off field issues that we do know about (Mills, SSL) and I see a club with deep problems, I have offered my view as to the cause of these issues and been roundly abused (not by yourself) for doing so, so I no longer make that arguement.

Incidentally if, as appears to be the case, you feel that 'only a couple' of players are the problem, I would be very interested to hear who you think they might be.......

I still don't see a squad who are Ill at ease with itself??

I see a squad of players who are trying very hard currently.

I don't agree with you Dave on this. You still seem to insist that the squad are squabbling all the time.

Dannsy, for instance, i think got sent off on Sat because he was 'trying too hard' and made a challenge he shouldnt sensibly have.

Beckford is constantly putting in a shift at the mo.

Are you now coming to games? Cos if you aren't seeing a squad of players who are putting in the effort I don't think you can be?

[Haydos]

What?........

It is the personel that gives the group (squad) it's 'mentality'. How can it not be the players at fault?

It's not as simple as that. I've stated this in other posts. Look how new our squad is as whole. They aren't a team yet, that takes time, maybe a couple of seasons with a core group of players when there have been as many changes as we've had. It's completely different to having a few new players join over the summer. The last 2 seasons have seen a ridiculous turnover of playing staff and we need some consistency, some stability so this core of players can form some sort of identity, team cohesion and an obvious mentality.

[Guest Col city fan]

It's not as simple as that. I've stated this in other posts. Look how new our squad is as whole. They aren't a team yet, that takes time, maybe a couple of seasons with a core group of players when there have been as many changes as we've had. It's completely different to having a few new players join over the summer. The last 2 seasons have seen a ridiculous turnover of playing staff and we need some consistency, some stability so this core of players can form some sort of identity, team cohesion and an obvious mentality.

I agree... With a couple or three additions in key positions. A squad can benefit from a freshening up, some more competition for places but not a complete overhaul. Twould just be going back to the drawing board again IMO.

[brockmyster]

Id say we need two wingers, a target man and possibly another centre mid. And a rb if pearson seems to not want to use a proven premiership class one we have

[Number 6]

What?........

It is the personel that gives the group (squad) it's 'mentality'. How can it not be the players at fault?

It is the players' fault. They need to take responsibility. There was huge hype at the beginning of the season and they didn't deal with the pressure. You only have to look at the recent history of these players to know they're not bad players though and I think they're more than capable of being a team challenging for honours next season.