The Real Problem

[Guest]

Another thread, another angle.

We have so much anger on the forum and more disappointment than the relegation season (maybe). We've finished a miserable mid table in the second division many times before without quite this much frustration and angst. So what's the root of it all.

Expectation partly. We had a pre-season full of expensive purchases and rumours of even bigger buys. We were favourites for promotion not only through our own justifiably blue tinted glasses but also in the view of the "experts". Some fools even went so far as to chant that we were buying the league (oh the shame).

But it wasn't only expectation. at times this year we have played some unbelievable football. Derby, Forest second half, that away game against league leading and hot southampton. We were tremendous. We had the capability to beat anyone. we have some extremely good players, and yet we all too often played as though we had no idea and no ability. We've had some bad luck with referees (but then who doesn't) but the main problem is that our team - players and management - haven't played up to their ability on far too many occasions. I feel sorry for the owners who have invested heavily and the fans who have, generally, supported fantastically.

I remember the drive back from Rotherham on the coach and the optimisim for the season was palpable. i'm not surprised that so many of us are angry now when reality keeps hitting us on the head (or in the face).

The players and management have let us down.

[flowwolf]

Another thread, another angle.

We have so much anger on the forum and more disappointment than the relegation season (maybe). We've finished a miserable mid table in the second division many times before without quite this much frustration and angst. So what's the root of it all.

Expectation partly. We had a pre-season full of expensive purchases and rumours of even bigger buys. We were favourites for promotion not only through our own justifiably blue tinted glasses but also in the view of the "experts". Some fools even went so far as to chant that we were buying the league (oh the shame).

But it wasn't only expectation. at times this year we have played some unbelievable football. Derby, Forest second half, that away game against league leading and hot southampton. We were tremendous. We had the capability to beat anyone. we have some extremely good players, and yet we all too often played as though we had no idea and no ability. We've had some bad luck with referees (but then who doesn't) but the main problem is that our team - players and management - haven't played up to their ability on far too many occasions. I feel sorry for the owners who have invested heavily and the fans who have, generally, supported fantastically.

I remember the drive back from Rotherham on the coach and the optimisim for the season was palpable. i'm not surprised that so many of us are angry now when reality keeps hitting us on the head (or in the face).

The players and management have let us down.

So they must go it's simple!

[Area88]

The fans are desperate to be in the Premier League, the best league in the world. The fact that it's taken so many years and we havn't been in the top division since 2004 is what's so disapointing and it's built up in people. There are too many good memories of playing Tottenham, Arsenal, Newcastle and beating them of course. It just doesn't have the same feel and excitement playing Brighton or Peterborough each week. Part of the excitement is seeing your team play against big players like Thierry Henry, while having a few big stars in our own team.

We need another Yakubu, a big player with Premiership quality, that if we concede a goal, can score 2 goals at the other end to lead us to victory. That would give the team confidence and more importantly the defence.

[Corky]

The fans are desperate to be in the Premier League, the best league in the world. The fact that it's taken so many years and we havn't been in the top division since 2004 is what's so disapointing and it's built up in people.

It's not that alone, it's the lack of a serious promotion challenge in 6 of the 7 years at this level since our last season in the top flight.

[accessory]

The fans are desperate to be in the Premier League, the best league in the world.

You lost me right there. Look at Manyoo's European record this season and tell me you still believe that crap.

[Trav Le Bleu]

And the real problem is?

[The Doctor]

You lost me right there. Look at Manyoo's European record this season and tell me you still believe that crap.

Colin, shut up.

That may not be accurate, but is it or is it not the best league we can actually be in, bar some franchising? (assume best to mean highest quality of player here).

[Guest]

And the real problem is?

Ridiculous expectation and inconsistent quality players, led by a manager that isn't very creative in the attack department.

[Area88]

That may not be accurate, but is it or is it not the best league we can actually be in, bar some franchising? (assume best to mean highest quality of player here).

Thats the point I was trying to make. League, not Champions League. More people watch the Premier League than any other league in the world. The league has the best players, highest revenue and highest number of rich owners. The rewards in the Premier League are much higher than geting promoted from Series B, for example.

There are some exceptions these rules, Real Madrid being the most obvious.

[paulsherwood1]

Agree, frustration!! We can`t turn the clock back, but two key mistakes were made this season.

Firstly, we sacked Sven. It was a knee jerk reaction to a very poor result. Way too early.

The reason we sacked him? To get us promotion this season. Here lies mistake number 2. To hire a manager with only a League 1 championship under his belt, no promotions to the premier league, 1 failed play off attempt and another failed season failing to get into the play offs. The same manager with a history of not being able to manage big name players, and playing a dour, unattractive style with some major tactical flaws.

So we sack Sven early so a new manager can take us up, and we go backwards instead.

( shakes head )

[Happy Fox]

Agree, frustration!! We can`t turn the clock back, but two key mistakes were made this season.

Firstly, we sacked Sven. It was a knee jerk reaction to a very poor result. Way too early.

It wasn't a knee jerk reaction it was the right decision failing to get our first choice manager not NP was the wrong decision the Thais have made

The reason we sacked him? To get us promotion this season. Here lies mistake number 2. To hire a manager with only a League 1 championship under his belt, no promotions to the premier league, 1 failed play off attempt and another failed season failing to get into the play offs. The same manager with a history of not being able to manage big name players, and playing a dour, unattractive style with some major tactical flaws.

So we sack Sven early so a new manager can take us up, and we go backwards instead.

( shakes head )

[The Doctor]

Thats the point I was trying to make. League, not Champions League. More people watch the Premier League than any other league in the world. The league has the best players, highest revenue and highest number of rich owners. The rewards in the Premier League are much higher than geting promoted from Series B, for example.

There are some exceptions these rules, Real Madrid being the most obvious.

Just to say, I disagree it's a better league than La Liga. Debatable as to whether it's better than Serie A or Bundesliga, but it's the highest standard of actual league (not bullshit tournaments masquerading under the name league) we have access to.

Best league in the world - hell no, best league in the country - in terms of the talent on display, no question.

[unreachable]

Ridiculous expectation and inconsistent quality players, led by a manager that isn't very creative in the attack department.

I'm afraid that players cannot be both "quality" and "inconsistent". Quite simply the players are not individually or collectively good enough to mount a promotion challenge.

I don't understand why some fans are satisfied with players who blow hot and cold - we need self-confident and self-motivated players - I'm tired of the suggestions that the manager needs to motivate the players - they should have pride in their own performances.

[shade]

Ridiculous expectation and inconsistent quality players, led by a manager that isn't very creative in the attack department.

pretty much this, in a nutshell.

[cc_star]

The real problem...

A series of decisions the owners have made that have culminated in what we see now, that's the real problem.

I'll elaborate, although some of this is subjective.

• Was it them who wanted the 'name' in charge to further their duty free ambitions, that saw European Cup winner Sousa unseat Pearson, a manager who destroyed the fabric of a close-knit team that were able to play above themselves week after week, based purely on spirit & motivation, a manager who vastly reduced the fitness levels of the players which takes weeks & weeks to turn around, a manager who left us looking the most clueless we ever have.
  
• Replacing the complete & total failure of Sousa with Sven a world famous name, who made some changes and brought in a modicum of organisation and was able to get a collection of players who finished in the playoffs up from bottom 3 up to mid-table, but despite many, many additions wasn't able get higher - in fact it could be said that the changes went to far & our climb up the league was undone by them with some players becoming unmotivated & signed off unbelievable short-termism tactics that ultimately lead to a whole new team being required, again.
  
• Backing the manager to unprecedented levels by taking out loans against the club, which in effect mortgages the very future of the club so that the manager could assemble a team of practically anyone he wanted without regard to whether their collective mentality, desire & ability would turn them into an actual team capable of competing.
  
• Then after realising that all their actions up to that point had actually made the situation at the club worse than when they arrived despite a supposed £50m+ investment have tried to undo it all and go back to the start, by literally starting over & making things exactly how they were... except it's not, this money thrown around has changed everyone, the attitudes of the players & fans is vastly different & the mix still appears to be wrong.
  
• Roll on the summer
  

[Kitchandro]

Ridiculous expectation and inconsistent quality players, led by a manager that isn't very creative in the attack department.

If a player plays well in 2 out of every 10 games, does that make them a quality player? NO!

All shit players will have some good games if you give them enough opportunities. The inconsistency is an indicator that a player isn't good enough.

[Guest]

I'm afraid that players cannot be both "quality" and "inconsistent". Quite simply the players are not individually or collectively good enough to mount a promotion challenge.

I don't understand why some fans are satisfied with players who blow hot and cold - we need self-confident and self-motivated players - I'm tired of the suggestions that the manager needs to motivate the players - they should have pride in their own performances.

Of course players can be quality and inconsistent - in fact inconsistent means that they don't play at the same quality all the time. If you look at their best performances it is clear that we have a lot of quality. Sadly it is also clear that we are terribly inconsistent.

You can be dissatisfied with players who are inconsistent and rightly so. I am too.

[Kitchandro]

The fans are desperate to be in the Premier League, the best league in the world. The fact that it's taken so many years and we havn't been in the top division since 2004 is what's so disapointing and it's built up in people.

It's not that alone, it's the lack of a serious promotion challenge in 6 of the 7 years at this level since our last season in the top flight.

Yep, these two

[unreachable]

Of course players can be quality and inconsistent - in fact inconsistent means that they don't play at the same quality all the time. If you look at their best performances it is clear that we have a lot of quality. Sadly it is also clear that we are terribly inconsistent.

You can be dissatisfied with players who are inconsistent and rightly so. I am too.

I don't agree. Consistency makes a player have quality. I agree with Kitchandro above. Poor quality = inconsistency.

[Guest]

If a player plays well in 2 out of every 10 games, does that make them a quality player? NO!

All shit players will have some good games if you give them enough opportunities. The inconsistency is an indicator that a player isn't good enough.

I don't think you actually understand the words "quality", and here this implies high quality, and "inconsistent" So I would be wasting my time to reply to you.

[Kitchandro]

Of course players can be quality and inconsistent - in fact inconsistent means that they don't play at the same quality all the time. If you look at their best performances it is clear that we have a lot of quality. Sadly it is also clear that we are terribly inconsistent.

You can be dissatisfied with players who are inconsistent and rightly so. I am too.

No, sorry. Dyer has his good games but fvck me the guy can't kick a football. He is a league one player.

Peltier's had some good games earlier in the season but the guy doesn't even know what a right back is.

Robbie Neilson had a few decent game, he was absolutely brilliant at Coventry away under Sousa, but he was still absolutely shit (bless him).

Mills has had some good games but it's obvious he's a very average player.

Wellens was a top player once and has still shown some glimpses of quality this season but he's not good enough anymore because he's performed poorly on the whole.

Yes, sometimes players are top quality and they have poor/inconsistent seasons. But some of these players do not fit into that category at all. Maybe Beckford is an exception.

[Guest]

I don't agree. Consistency makes a player have quality. I agree with Kitchandro above. Poor quality = inconsistency.

inconsistency means that a player doesn't always play at the same level. It has nothing to do with being good. A crap player can be consistent and they usually are - it's easier to be consistently bad than consistently good.

Still If you disagree with me that's fine, it's a discussion forum.

If I understand you correctly then ALL the Leicester players are shit because no-one, not even Kasper, has played great in every game.

The other week I saw Messi have a really poor game - he must be shit too.

[unreachable]

I don't think you actually understand the words "quality", and here this implies high quality, and "inconsistent" So I would be wasting my time to reply to you.

You don't seem to grasp the meaning of ordinary English.

To be a quality player you have to play consistently well - does that make it any easier to understand?

[Kitchandro]

I don't think you actually understand the words "quality", and here this implies high quality, and "inconsistent" So I would be wasting my time to reply to you.

You're implying that we have enough quality in the squad, we just need to find a way to make them consitently play well.

I'm saying they won't consistently play well because most of them aren't truly quality players.

[Guest]

No, sorry. Dyer has his good games but fvck me the guy can't kick a football. He is a league one player.

Peltier's had some good games earlier in the season but the guy doesn't even know what a right back is.

Robbie Neilson had a few decent game, he was absolutely brilliant at Coventry away under Sousa, but he was still absolutely shit (bless him).

Mills has had some good games but it's obvious he's a very average player.

Wellens was a top player once and has still shown some glimpses of quality this season but he's not good enough anymore because he's performed poorly on the whole.

Yes, sometimes players are top quality and they have poor/inconsistent seasons. But some of these players do not fit into that category at all. Maybe Beckford is an exception.

So of all our players you are stating that Beckford is the only high quality player. We must come from different planets.