The Mysterious Death of Gareth Williams.

[Guest MattP]

You could be right but it doesn't really explain why they seem to have all but given up on catching the culprit.

That's just my impression anyway

It is was a cover up why would they want to catch the culprit?

[Zingari]

It is was a cover up why would they want to catch the culprit?

that's my point , it all smacks of willful ignorance to me

[Guest MattP]

I'm expecting the Sun to implicate Woy in this tomorrow.

[Captain...]

Sky now.

On the balance of probability he was alive when he entered the bag and a third party moved the bag.

Sex Game theory for me still - gay guy back with him (with the intention of murder), you struggle in there, bang the bag when your wanking, I'll unpadlock it, then let me out. Never did.

If it was a sex game there would be DNA all over the place, I would imagine, unless his partner turned up already in full gimp suit, so as not to leave any prints or such like.

There is no reason to think it is spy related, any professional hit would not make it so newsworthy and odd.

He may have been involved in some other stuff, criminal stuff, where something like this could serve as a message to others, whereby the more high profile the better. Getting one up on the cops may also be motivation, not knowing he was a spy and thought he was targetting a sexual deviant.

The chance of it being home escapology gone wrong seems very unlikely anybody doing this kind of stuff would surely have a safety net in place.

[Webbo]

If it was spy related it could just as easy be another nation and not ours.

[Guest MattP]

Sex related DNA would only be over the bag had he ejaculated though, 3 minutes in a bag? I struggle in that time watching porn in bed let alone in a space with no leverage.

I'm only throwing it out there as an option.

[Zingari]

If it was spy related it could just as easy be another nation and not ours.

Yes indeed I agree , it could very well be that,

But then you have to ask , what sort of influence has that nation got over us to make us willing to play any part in trying to cover up a crime ?

[Webbo]

Yes indeed I agree , it could very well be that,

But then you have to ask , what sort of influence has that nation got over us to make us willing to play a part cover up a crime ?

It might be that our spooks don't know who did it .

[Zingari]

It might be that our spooks don't know who did it .

spooks aren't there to solve crimes though , that's the job of the police and it seems someone is going out of there way to make it difficult .

[Trav Le Bleu]

I liked the reference that I heard on radio 5 today that he had "only frequented a few bondage sites."

You know, the usual everyday stuff the same as everyone else.

[21st Century Fox]

The screening you have to go through to work for MI5 or MI6 is insane, I find it hard to believe that a a personality trait that could leave you and potentially sensitive information in an extremely vulnerable situation like that could slip through the net. It's possible of course but seems unlikely.

[Zingari]

The screening you have to go through to work for MI5 or MI6 is insane, I find it hard to believe that a a personality trait that could leave you and potentially sensitive information in an extremely vulnerable situation like that could slip through the net. It's possible of course but seems unlikely.

If he can get out of a padlocked sports bag , surely slipping through a net would be a piece of piss for him

[Captain...]

I liked the reference that I heard on radio 5 today that he had "only frequented a few bondage sites."

You know, the usual everyday stuff the same as everyone else.

Well the fact that it is only a few has been used to suggest he is not the full time pervert that would lock himself in a bag for a quick wank, and could have been looked at by somebody else with brief access to his computer.

If he can get out of a padlocked sports bag , surely slipping through a net would be a piece of piss for him

He can't though can he, if he could we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Guest MattP]

Well the fact that it is only a few has been used to suggest he is not the full time pervert that would lock himself in a bag for a quick wank, and could have been looked at by somebody else with brief access to his computer.

He's the shittest secret agent ever if he leaves his computer lying about for people to get their hands on to have a quick shufty.

Wasn't James Bond was he.

[Zingari]

Well the fact that it is only a few has been used to suggest he is not the full time pervert that would lock himself in a bag for a quick wank, and could have been looked at by somebody else with brief access to his computer.

He can't though can he, if he could we wouldn't be having this discussion.

i realised that after i'd posted

what i meant was , if he could get into a padlocked bag (and obviously must have believed he could get out again), then slipping through a net shouldn't cause him any problems

[Zingari]

Fiona Wilcox

On Mr Williams' accessing of bondage websites, she said: "Clearly experimenting with bondage would involve danger".

But the coroner ruled out Mr Williams' interest in bondage and drag queens in having any bearing on his death as she questioned leaks about his private life to the press. She said: "I wonder if this was an attempt by some third party to manipulate the evidence."

I think you've hit the fookin nail on the head there missus !!

[Babylon]

I liked the reference that I heard on radio 5 today that he had "only frequented a few bondage sites."

You know, the usual everyday stuff the same as everyone else.

To be fair this place is a form of sadomasochism.

[Zingari]

To be fair this place is a form of sadomasochism.

you seem to one of the most willing participants

[Babylon]

He's the shittest secret agent ever if he leaves his computer lying about for people to get their hands on to have a quick shufty.

Wasn't James Bond was he.

Great got me in trouble for laughing out loud at work now.

[Babylon]

you seem to one of the most willing participants

Glutton for punishment.

If I had a bag and a padlock I'd be zipped up in there with my laptop whilst posting on here.

[Zingari]

Glutton for punishment.

If I had a bag and a padlock I'd be zipped up in there with my laptop whilst posting on here.

Simultaneously composing and decomposing?

[adam1]

Fiona Wilcox

On Mr Williams' accessing of bondage websites, she said: "Clearly experimenting with bondage would involve danger".

But the coroner ruled out Mr Williams' interest in bondage and drag queens in having any bearing on his death as she questioned leaks about his private life to the press. She said: "I wonder if this was an attempt by some third party to manipulate the evidence."

I think you've hit the fookin nail on the head there missus !!

This was in the independent on sunday:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/curious-case-of-a-lack-of-curiosity-over-missing-spy-7687539.html?origin=internalSearch

Remarkable coincidence?

Whatever the truth in the case of Gareth Williams, details of women's underwear and cross-dressing regularly emerge in the "presentation" of the deaths of intelligence agents.

Nicholas Anderson, former MI6 officer turned author, told The Independent on Sunday: "I am on verbal record to my own family, close friends and select lawyers that if anything ever happened to me – a straight man and a positive thinker – it would likely be made to look either like a suicide or that I died dressed like a woman.

"Over the years, it seems to me a favourite way of presentation. I, of course, am not suicidal in any remote way nor do I like to dress so. When I read in the press about Gareth Williams, women's clothes, and a wig, it all fits the usual scenario."

The IoS has come across at least 17 mysterious deaths – some dubbed suicides, others freak accidents – of MI6 agents, workers at GCHQ, or those linked to the defence or intelligence services over the past 50 years. Sexual overtones, asphyxia, or both, feature in a third of cases, and they are just the ones that are in the public domain and "open source", as spooks would say.

Stephen Drinkwater, 25, a clerk employed in a department at GCHQ where highly classified documents were copied, was found dead in his parents' house at Cheltenham in September 1983. A plastic bag was over his head and he had died from asphyxiation.

In March 1990, British journalist Jonathan Moyle, 28, who had been investigating claims that US civilian helicopters were to be converted into gunships for sale to Iraq, was found hanged inside a hotel wardrobe in Santiago, Chile. Eight years later, an inquest concluded that he had been "unlawfully killed" by a "person or persons unknown". Speaking in September 2010, his former fiancée said: "The British intelligence services tried to smear Jonathan suggesting he was sexually deviant."

Four years later, in February 1994, Conservative MP Stephen Milligan, 45, was found tied to a chair wearing women's underwear and with a bag over his head and a satsuma stuffed into his mouth. He was the parliamentary private secretary to the then defence minister Jonathan Aitken. Mr Aitken has since denied media reports that he also worked for MI6.

The same month that Mr Milligan's body was discovered, James Rusbridger, 65, ex-MI6 agent turned journalist, was found hanged at his house on Bodmin Moor in Cornwall. He was dressed in a green protective suit, green overalls, a black plastic mackintosh and thick rubber gloves. His face was covered by a gas mask and his body was surrounded by bondage pictures. Consultant pathologist Dr Yasai Sivathondan said he died from asphyxia due to hanging "in keeping with a form of sexual strangulation".

In another case, an inquest in July 1997 heard how GCHQ worker Nicholas Husband, 46, was found dead wearing women's clothing after a bizarre sex ritual. Mr Husband, from Tewkesbury, had a plastic bag over his face and was wearing a nightie and a bra. He was found dead after he failed to show up for work in December 1996.

In March 1999, Kevin Allen, a 31-year-old linguist at GCHQ, was found dead in bed by his father at his home in Cheltenham. He had a plastic bag over his head and a dust mask over his mouth. An post-mortem revealed that death was due to asphyxiation.

Jonathan Owen

[Zingari]

Very interesting is that adam

I think David Shayler ( remember him) should be getting very concerned now .

[Babylon]

Very interesting is that adam

I think David Shayler ( remember him) should be getting very concerned now .

I think David Shayler should start practicing how to escape from a locked suitcase, whilst dressed as a gimp, with a dildo up his bum.

[Guest MattP]

I think David Shayler should start practicing how to escape from a locked suitcase, whilst dressed as a gimp, with a dildo up his bum.

Got me back lol