ADK Posted 21 June 2012 Posted 21 June 2012 ...and nobody has made an argument as to why they shouldn't either. I would welcome a review of it, but the problem is this government promised it wouldn't and changed its mind, again, and deserved or not if they have work expecting that pension and don't get it then it is more or less theft. No more u-turns Arguement against is obvious, its taxpayers money used to fund these lavish pensions which could be used for something better.
FoxyPV Posted 21 June 2012 Posted 21 June 2012 Doctors don't need to strike unless they are seriously pissed off. Unlike the rest of the medical staff, doctors are actually listened to, and when the BMA says jump, the govt usually says, how high.
Captain... Posted 21 June 2012 Posted 21 June 2012 Arguement against is obvious, its taxpayers money used to fund these lavish pensions which could be used for something better. You're right, lets pay them minimum wage, think of what we could save doing that. If we are lowering the higher rate of tax to attract more business, and being more competitive in the private sector, then we should surely also be offering the best package to attract the best doctors, or do you not think we should have the best doctors in the NHS. What do you think is going to happen, when the private sector can offer better pensions and wages than the public sector, the best doctors will go to the private sector or abroad, further devaluing the NHS and possibly leading to the collapse of the NHS, I wonder if the government have considered this.
ADK Posted 21 June 2012 Posted 21 June 2012 You're right, lets pay them minimum wage, think of what we could save doing that. If we are lowering the higher rate of tax to attract more business, and being more competitive in the private sector, then we should surely also be offering the best package to attract the best doctors, or do you not think we should have the best doctors in the NHS. What do you think is going to happen, when the private sector can offer better pensions and wages than the public sector, the best doctors will go to the private sector or abroad, further devaluing the NHS and possibly leading to the collapse of the NHS, I wonder if the government have considered this. Yeah you see that is what i mean by hyperbole. This isnt actually about wages but about pensions - although i think doctors salaries are too high, they are always going to be well above the national average. The private sector won't offer pensions anywhere near as good as these. There is no shortage of people wanting to become doctors.
Captain... Posted 21 June 2012 Posted 21 June 2012 Yeah you see that is what i mean by hyperbole. This isnt actually about wages but about pensions - although i think doctors salaries are too high, they are always going to be well above the national average. The private sector won't offer pensions anywhere near as good as these. There is no shortage of people wanting to become doctors. Happy to oblige with the hyperbole, I always put that in there so you can use it to ignore the point. Your employer offers you a contract on good terms, then tells you you are not going to get what you were promised then you will be pissed off, and start looking for a new employer. Is that what the Conservative want? do they want more NHS doctors to leave the NHS and go private and abroad? Do they want to undermine the NHS and eventually do away with it?
leicsmac Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Happy to oblige with the hyperbole, I always put that in there so you can use it to ignore the point. Your employer offers you a contract on good terms, then tells you you are not going to get what you were promised then you will be pissed off, and start looking for a new employer. Is that what the Conservative want? do they want more NHS doctors to leave the NHS and go private and abroad? Do they want to undermine the NHS and eventually do away with it? Is that a trick question?
Daggers Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 People are just arguing with the usual hyperbole, nobody has made a decent arguement as to why doctors should get pensions worth millions. Because it is what they were promised, it's what they have paid for to date and it is what they have planned their futures around. Whether or not anybody on here thinks they are 'worth it' or the pensions offer 'value' is irrelevant. Like others arguing over pensions the provision was assessed within the last four years and found to be affordable - the government is mounting a raid on pensions in order to raise money not to make them affordable or of value. This action has been supported by the stupid and the jealous as both groups value a push to the bottom where everyone gets fvck all ("because I don't get a pension like that"). They are doctors because they have achieved their doctorates, they are the most intelligent within society doing one of the most demanding of jobs. If you don't value that as an answer then become a fvcking doctor and then bitch and gripe about it. But none of you can because you simply haven't got what it takes - and so we return to the root of your problems again, jealousy.
Daggers Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 This isnt actually about wages but about pensions - although i think doctors salaries are too high, they are always going to be well above the national average. The private sector won't offer pensions anywhere near as good as these. Have you any idea what the pension of a private-practice doctor is?
Rincewind Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 How many private doctors are there compared to NHS ones?
flowwolf Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Let that one on your shoulder dive back in with his friends. I'm quite flattered you took the time and trouble ! :thumbup: :D :D :D
MooseBreath Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 ...and nobody has made an argument as to why they shouldn't either. I would welcome a review of it, but the problem is this government promised it wouldn't and changed its mind, again, and deserved or not if they have work expecting that pension and don't get it then it is more or less theft. No more Obviously the government will have protected their right to make changes, so it's not theft, it's just the nature of public sector pensions. They are changing all the time and will continue to change. It happens to everyone, not just doctors. As I've said, I doubt that by the time I retire there will be any public pensions, so am I going to make financial plans based on what is available today, even though I know it will change? No. Why? Because I am not a fool.
cambridgefox Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Compare a doctors wages and pensions to a footballers wages and although you might not think so ,being on a football forum,I know which I think is more important and deserving of high wages and pensions. I'm in the private sector and have to contribute 100% to my pension,whilst the general public pay 80% of the public sectors pensions in their tax,I'm not moaning as it is my choice and my basic pay is probably more to off set this.we all have choices in life and one of mine was where I decided to work. What gripes me about politics whether it be labour or conservative is,whatever one says the other says the exact opposite,now I'm not daft but I'm also not brain of Britain,but there are a lot of policies I agree with on both sides that work for me and I would be a liar and so would all of you if you didnt agree with that.Wouldnt we be much stronger as a nation if they forgot their allegiances on some policies and worked to move us forward .very naive way of thinking,but more than likely correct.
Parafox Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 How many nurses could be employed with all that pension money? Pr1ck
Rincewind Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Pretty much the way I look at things which is why I try and steer clear of the politics toing and froing on here. I thought that the coalition might be better but would have preferred a less right wing partnership. It was a chance for the Lib Dems to put forward some moderate ideas which would be good for the country rather than a political party but it seems they have no backbone and are allowing the tories to back stab them on every decision. I have lost any respect for them so am now in a political limbo. I don't care much for any of them.
Parafox Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Because it is what they were promised, it's what they have paid for to date and it is what they have planned their futures around. Whether or not anybody on here thinks they are 'worth it' or the pensions offer 'value' is irrelevant. Like others arguing over pensions the provision was assessed within the last four years and found to be affordable - the government is mounting a raid on pensions in order to raise money not to make them affordable or of value. This action has been supported by the stupid and the jealous as both groups value a push to the bottom where everyone gets fvck all ("because I don't get a pension like that"). They are doctors because they have achieved their doctorates, they are the most intelligent within society doing one of the most demanding of jobs. If you don't value that as an answer then become a fvcking doctor and then bitch and gripe about it. But none of you can because you simply haven't got what it takes - and so we return to the root of your problems again, jealousy. Absolutely 100% agree, Daggers. These same people would be on here complaining in their own favour if the same was to happen to them. The politics of envy... nice
Bellend Sebastian Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 It's one of the shittest programmes I've ever seen
ADK Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Nobody has given a reason why anyone needs a pension worth millions paid for by the taxpayer. Doctors can just go on 5 cruises instead of 6 and own 3 cars instead of 4.
Parafox Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Nobody has given a reason why anyone needs a pension worth millions paid for by the taxpayer. Doctors can just go on 5 cruises instead of 6 and own 3 cars instead of 4. How do YOU know how many cars a doctor own? A lot less than your average prem or championship footballer, I'd wager. How do YOU know where or how often or what type of holiday a doctor has? What this dispute is about, if you'd care to check your facts is the reneging of an agreement by the government. I get the feeling your a little wet behind the ears and have some growing up to do. You spout the politics of envy.
Captain... Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Nobody has given a reason why anyone needs a pension worth millions paid for by the taxpayer. Doctors can just go on 5 cruises instead of 6 and own 3 cars instead of 4. Your problem seems to be that it is tax payers money? Would you have any problem if doctors got this pension privately? You don't mind doctors having a huge pension as long as it is not you that pays for it?
Daggers Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Nobody has given a reason why anyone needs a pension worth millions paid for by the taxpayer. Doctors can just go on 5 cruises instead of 6 and own 3 cars instead of 4. Try reading my reply to your last inane question. Oh, and I want a fvcking bowl of chips.
ADK Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Your problem seems to be that it is tax payers money? Would you have any problem if doctors got this pension privately? You don't mind doctors having a huge pension as long as it is not you that pays for it? Of course not, no more than i care how anybody else chooses to invest their money.
Parafox Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 Of course not, no more than i care how anybody else chooses to invest their money. You've just scuppered your own argument
Daggers Posted 22 June 2012 Posted 22 June 2012 You've just scuppered your own argument He did that when he started whining about people earning more than him because they earn more than him.
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