The US Presidential Elections.

[Guest MattP]

Neither of them are talking about what they are going to do, both just mud slinging on each others politics.

They are both pretty awful, if I was American I'd feel like I was choosing between a disaster that's just happened repeating or something that has the potential to be an even bigger disaster.

[Jordan]

Neither of them are talking about what they are going to do, both just mud slinging on each others politics.

They are both pretty awful, if I was American I'd feel like I was choosing between a disaster that's just happened repeating or something that has the potential to be an even bigger disaster.

I feel like I'm choosing between a President whose policies led our country away from an economic abyss and onto a steady path of recovery and Mitt Romney.

I find it ironic that you would mock the choice Americans face in November when your last choice was between austerity, incompetence, and the Lib--pardon me, it's hard to type on a touchscreen keyboard while laughing--eral Democrats.

Are you enjoying your coalition government? There may be only two worthwhile options in my country, but I'm satisfied with one of them (at least with my president and most of my party, anyway).

[Jaspa]

I feel like I'm choosing between a President whose policies led our country away from an economic abyss and onto a steady path of recovery and Mitt Romney.

I find it ironic that you would mock the choice Americans face in November when your last choice was between austerity, incompetence, and the Lib--pardon me, it's hard to type on a touchscreen keyboard while laughing--eral Democrats.

Are you enjoying your coalition government? There may be only two worthwhile options in my country, but I'm satisfied with one of them (at least with my president and most of my party, anyway).

I don't see why you had to turn it into country bashing

Both of these candidates are coming across badly from others perspective, surely this would just be interesting for you to gauge these type opinions; especially from other countries.

As for in both of our cases, it is incredibly worrying that these men and women are the only ones to run some of the aparent best countries in the world.

I think Barack will win it, mostly on image in reality

[The Doctor]

"So rich and white it's like I'm running against a cheesecake"

[ADK]

So who won? I heard Obama held his own this time which is probably enough?

I don't think Obama has done too bad a job, anyone who actually knows anything about economics would know it is near impossible to go straight from recession into boom.

[21st Century Fox]

http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/

[Jordan]

I don't see why you had to turn it into country bashing

Both of these candidates are coming across badly from others perspective, surely this would just be interesting for you to gauge these type opinions; especially from other countries.

As for in both of our cases, it is incredibly worrying that these men and women are the only ones to run some of the aparent best countries in the world.

I think Barack will win it, mostly on image in reality

I didn't mean it as country bashing and perhaps should have been more tactful. You'll notice, though, that the situation MattP (albeit jokingly) described isn't some phenomenom that's unique to the U.S. I'd say that the last UK was a prime example of this, with plenty of uninspiring choices, a lot of negativity being thrown around by the Tories and Labour. That's not to mention the U.K.'s very own televised debates and the huge boost Nick Clegg and his Lib Dems got out of them, which makes me wonder if a lot of centrist voters are having regrets as many centrist voters here are about voting for Obama in 2008. So, what MattP described as a farce surrounding this Presidential election shouldn't seem all that foreign.

Unless we ourselves are running, candidates and parties are often going to seem less than ideal.

But as for last night's debate was the best of the bunch so far, even despite its contrived town hall format. A lot of this may be down to both candidates showing vigor, which wasn't as much the case the first time.

There are still many Americans in key voting demographics that are either still worried sick about their own well beings or just low-information voters; economic statistics mean nothing to them. There are also centrists that would rather not vote Obama, but do not like the right turn Romney and the GOP have recently made. Obama had to go on the attack to argue to these voters that the devil you know is the better choice.

But there's another reason why Obama took breaks from touting his record and talking about the next term's plan (which he did, though often) to attack Romney--he has to fire up his base. As I had mentioned before, Obama needs an energized campaign and a big ground game/GOTV to win. If Democrats stay home and don't get others to the polls anywhere close to how they did in 2008, Obama loses (and this could have major down-ticket consequences, with the balance of power in the Senate wobbling on a few races). Many debate watchers have deep party loyalties, and to voters that have already made up their mind, they watch the debates almost like a sports game. They needed a win from their team last night and they got it, which will make them excited the rest of the way as there is a whole lot left to play for. Another weak performance would have left the Democratic base demoralized.

[Guest MattP]

I feel like I'm choosing between a President whose policies led our country away from an economic abyss and onto a steady path of recovery and Mitt Romney.

I find it ironic that you would mock the choice Americans face in November when your last choice was between austerity, incompetence, and the Lib--pardon me, it's hard to type on a touchscreen keyboard while laughing--eral Democrats.

Are you enjoying your coalition government? There may be only two worthwhile options in my country, but I'm satisfied with one of them (at least with my president and most of my party, anyway).

Steady path of recovery? Even the hardcore Democrats on my Facebook page wouldn't dare use such a phrase, the immediate recovery hasn't been too bad, you make it sound like Bill Clinton has come back, the debt you have accumulated to do so will be killing you 50 years from now. Maybe 100.

You say the choice of Austerity is a bad thing, that's pretty staggering coming from a country that has a $16trillion debt.

Am I enjoying it? Not really, it's certainly better than any other option we had though and I'm certainly far more confident that our younger generation will be in a better situation in what we are doing than if we were borrowing so much our credit rating was close to being downgraded.

Our politicians have been shit for years, all image and little substance, yours were quite decent up until Dubya turned up, it seems to be a disaster after another disaster since then, I dread the debt you'll be in after a second term of Obama, I'd dread the situation you would be in after a term of Mitt.

Good luck.

[Guest MattP]

I don't see why you had to turn it into country bashing

Both of these candidates are coming across badly from others perspective, surely this would just be interesting for you to gauge these type opinions; especially from other countries.

As for in both of our cases, it is incredibly worrying that these men and women are the only ones to run some of the aparent best countries in the world.

I think Barack will win it, mostly on image in reality

Good point.

They are very fanatical about politics in the US and it's correct Jordan says it's like a sports game, problem is it's the same as a fan who can't see the failings in his own team the way a lot of them come across in their points of view about Obama and Romney.

[Jordan]

Steady path of recovery? Even the hardcore Democrats on my Facebook page wouldn't dare use such a phrase, the immediate recovery hasn't been too bad, you make it sound like Bill Clinton has come back, the debt you have accumulated to do so will be killing you 50 years from now. Maybe 100.

You say the choice of Austerity is a bad thing, that's pretty staggering coming from a country that has a $16trillion debt.

Am I enjoying it? Not really, it's certainly better than any other option we had though and I'm certainly far more confident that our younger generation will be in a better situation in what we are doing than if we were borrowing so much our credit rating was close to being downgraded.

Our politicians have been shit for years, all image and little substance, yours were quite decent up until Dubya turned up, it seems to be a disaster after another disaster since then, I dread the debt you'll be in after a second term of Obama, I'd dread the situation you would be in after a term of Mitt.

Good luck.

I'm sorry, but while this isn't a New Deal/World War II-style recovery, your Facebook timeline is probably not exactly a scientific analysis of America's current economic situation.

The debt seems absolutely staggering, but remember that the U.S. public debt is among the safest investments in the world. If we need to deficit spend to stimulate the economy, we can if Congress allows it because foreign governments and investors are happy to buy our debt.

Remember how much of an effect debt-ceiling brinksmanship played in the credit downgrade of the U.S. What the House Republicans did was reprehensible, and they essentially held the global economy hostage, demanding their far-right economic proposals be enacted as ransom. This has never been done before but the worry remains that the Republicans will do it again.

I would say the economic statistics indicate a steady path of recovery, as I said--no more, no less.

As for austerity, it amazes me how many politicians and voters cling to that myth. If I may, I shall defer this matter to Dr. Paul Krugman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/opinion/krugman-europes-austerity-madness.html

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/opinion/krugman-triumph-of-the-wrong.xml

[Guest MattP]

As for austerity, it amazes me how many politicians and voters cling to that myth. If I may, I shall defer this matter to Dr. Paul Krugman:

http://www.nytimes.c...ty-madness.html

http://mobile.nytime...f-the-wrong.xml

Wow.

A man who was advising Enron in the 90's and called Gordon Brown "more impressive than any US politician I've spoken to"?.

Think I'll leave that one. It's far easier to be controversial and speak on fiscal policy when you don't have to implement it yourself. He doesn't even seem to get the difference bwtween the EU and the Eurozone.

[Reynard Bleu]

Until one of them pronounces 'herbs' with an 'h' they can both go to ell.

[Jordan]

Wow.

A man who was advising Enron in the 90's and called Gordon Brown "more impressive than any US politician I've spoken to"?.

Think I'll leave that one. It's far easier to be controversial and speak on fiscal policy when you don't have to implement it yourself. He doesn't even seem to get the difference bwtween the EU and the Eurozone.

I love how just the words "Paul Krugman" alone are enough to send a conservative into a tizzy.

[Guest MattP]

I love how just the words "Paul Krugman" alone are enough to send a conservative into a tizzy.

I like how as soon as I debate anything from the left I'm a "Conservative" again.

[Jordan]

I like how as soon as I debate anything from the left I'm a "Conservative" again.

I wrote lowercase "c" conservative, not uppercase "C" Conservative.

[Ross-Kemp]

I'm in New York whilst this happens.

What's the atmosphere/travel going to be like ? Anybody know ?

[BoneDog]

Has anybody read Tarpley's new book about Romney? I don't know much about the Romney Mormon connection and am thinking of buying it.

http://www.progressivepress.com/book-listing/weird-romney-mormon-takeover

Book title : "Just Too Weird - Bishop Romney and the Mormon Takeover of America: Polygamy, Theocracy and Subversion."

Book description - "Researcher warns against the horrors of Mormonism.

Tarpley reveals that Mormonism, Mitt Romney's tradition, is not actually a religion but a synthetic ideology sponsored by British intelligence, as part of their campaign of covert warfare against the United States."

There is some interesting info about CIA involvement in the killing of the US Ambassador in Benghazi on his site.

http://tarpley.net/

[Jordan]

I'm in New York whilst this happens.

What's the atmosphere/travel going to be like ? Anybody know ?

Travel and traffic shouldn't be too different than regular NY standards although airport security might be a tiny bit more strict.

If Obama wins, there will be some impromptu partying and celebrations at certain places (Times Square, Harlem, Village/LES, some Brooklyn neighborhoods) but those won't be on the level of the crowds in 2008.

If Romney wins, expect a much more somber atmosphere--New York City (besides mayoral elections) is definitely a Democratic city.

One thing you can count on is all of the network stations and cable news channels going overboard about anything and everything from 7:00 p.m. through the rest of the night. CNN, in particular, has an interactive 3D graphic for even the most irrelevant bits of election information.

[Ross-Kemp]

Travel and traffic shouldn't be too different than regular NY standards although airport security might be a tiny bit more strict.

If Obama wins, there will be some impromptu partying and celebrations at certain places (Times Square, Harlem, Village/LES, some Brooklyn neighborhoods) but those won't be on the level of the crowds in 2008.

If Romney wins, expect a much more somber atmosphere--New York City (besides mayoral elections) is definitely a Democratic city.

One thing you can count on is all of the network stations and cable news channels going overboard about anything and everything from 7:00 p.m. through the rest of the night. CNN, in particular, has an interactive 3D graphic for even the most irrelevant bits of election information.

Thank you for the info, we fly on the Saturday so to a few days to acclimatise haha !

Are the results announced the same day ? American politics isn't my strong point.

[Jordan]

Thank you for the info, we fly on the Saturday so to a few days to acclimatise haha !

Are the results announced the same day ? American politics isn't my strong point.

Most election results will be announced on the night of Election Day.

For the Presidential election, the winners of most states will be called by media outlets as soon as the polls close based on a combination of exit surveys and common sense. For example, at 7:00 p.m. Eastern time, Wolf Blitzer will announce that CNN declares Mitt Romney the winner of Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky and South Carolina (and their 44 Electoral Votes), but that they declare Barack Obama the winner of Vermont's 4 EVs.

Virginia (polls close at 7:00, 13 EVs), however, is a toss-up (though that state is trending towards Romney), so unless the exit polls are staggering, we won't know who will win it for a few hours. The media will hesitate to call anywhere from 9-15 states until they receive enough data from those states' vote counts before declaring a winner there. Yes--the results will be "announced" before all of the votes have been counted in nearly every state.

Virgina, North Carolina (15 EVs, polls close at 7:30), and--of course--Ohio (18, 7:30), will be early indicators of whether this one will be called early in the night, or if we'd better start brewing some coffee. If Obama leads the early voting in Virginia, and looks to be very competitive in NC (it's slipping out of his reach now), those will be encouraging signs for the Democrats. If Romney looks primed for victories in both of those states, it makes his path to 270 EVs much easier. But if either candidate has a significant advantage in Ohio, that side will be tempted to start popping champagne bottles (or sparkling cider bottles, if you're Mitt Romney or Joe Biden).

This will happen to some degree in the 33 Senate seats up for grabs on this Election Day (important, because the majority of the Senate hangs in the balance), too. House races don't take as long to count, but it's hard to call close races because polling surveys aren't as reliable for those as Senate/Presidential polls. In those races, if there is enough of a lead (especially if the media is calling the race), the losing candidate will "concede" and allow the winner to deliver her/his victory speech. It's not like the UK general election, where (if I'm not mistaken) the results are announced in front of all candidates.

However, close races can often go down to the bitter end. In 2008, it took 18 days to declare the winner of a close Alaska Senate race (where Mark Begich-D beat the long-time incumbent Ted Stevens-R). Minnesota--because of recounts and legal challenges--could not certify a winner of it's 2008 Senate election until June 30 of 2009 (with Al Franken-D defeating incumbent Norm Coleman-R by 225 votes). And, of course, there was Florida in 2000... but these are anomalies.

Edit to add that I will also be following a New York State Assembly race in a neighboring district with great interest, as my friend is running in a close race. If he wins, he will be the youngest elected official on the state level in NY.

NYC is a great place, and there's enough to do in the city (and enough apolitical folks) that you could probably have a pleasant Tuesday night with only passing knowledge of the elections. But it will be interesting, at the very least, to get a taste of our peculiar system of electing our government. I think Election Day is a lot of fun, and I'll be thankful that I happen to have that week off from work in case the results aren't known until well after midnight (and either way, I'll probably be a little hung over, too). I'm not sure yet if I'm going out to watch the results roll in or staying home.

--

As an aside, I woke up to the sad news that Sen. George McGovern--who (in)famously lost the 1972 to Richard Nixon in a historic landslide--passed away at 90 years old this morning.

[Alf Bentley]

Greatly enjoying this thread - particularly Jordan's contributions...and I thought that the "mission to explain" had been killed off by Roland Rat. You are, indeed, the Robert Kee or Anna Ford of Foxes Talk!

Seriously, though, thanks for bothering. I find the USA and its politics fascinating and feel as if I understand just a little more.

I hope that the understandable but unjustified disillusionment doesn't bring down Democrat turnout and do for Obama in a close race. He was certainly handed a poisoned chalice by Dubya and seems to have made a half-decent fist of it...could still be a good 2nd term president, and I don't fancy the prospect of Romney pandering to bigotry and nationalism (even if he doesn't really believe in it) and establishing a new blueprint for the Tories to copy, eliminating rights and spreading inequality, social misery and ignorance

[Zingari]

very interesting !!

Obvious Fraud ?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obvious-fraud-mitt-romney-s-company-paid-better-returns-than-bernie-madoff

[21st Century Fox]

Nice one, Barack

You mentioned the navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military's changed. We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines.

[Jordan]

Greatly enjoying this thread - particularly Jordan's contributions...and I thought that the "mission to explain" had been killed off by Roland Rat. You are, indeed, the Robert Kee or Anna Ford of Foxes Talk!

Seriously, though, thanks for bothering. I find the USA and its politics fascinating and feel as if I understand just a little more.

I hope that the understandable but unjustified disillusionment doesn't bring down Democrat turnout and do for Obama in a close race. He was certainly handed a poisoned chalice by Dubya and seems to have made a half-decent fist of it...could still be a good 2nd term president, and I don't fancy the prospect of Romney pandering to bigotry and nationalism (even if he doesn't really believe in it) and establishing a new blueprint for the Tories to copy, eliminating rights and spreading inequality, social misery and ignorance

Thank you... what your wrote reminds me of the joking praise going around this September (started by New Yorker editor Ben Greenman but popularized by Barack Obama) that Bill Clinton should be named "Secretary of Explaining Things" following his long speech at the Democratic National Convention. Clinton, of course, is a much more qualified "explainer of things" than me, and his imaginary new role sounds more prestigious, but I appreciate your nomination all the same.

There is bias in a lot of my views (go figure), but I would hope that my comments about the peculiarities of American politics (and how we elect our officials) are straight and clear. Presidential campaigns grow weary on many, and they can seem to upstage governing itself. However, I've learned to appreciate our federalist system (despite the inherent inequalities of the Electoral College), and I find that these contests offer remarkable insight on what the people of my country are thinking. Also, as Obama curtly told Rep. Eric Cantor ® early in his term, "Elections have consequences." One day in November can drastically alter the path of our country (and the world) for years. I hope that the trend over the past eight years towards increased voter turnout and participation in the political process continues, because these decisions really are that important.

[Alf Bentley]

Thank you... what your wrote reminds me of the joking praise going around this September (started by New Yorker editor Ben Greenman but popularized by Barack Obama) that Bill Clinton should be named "Secretary of Explaining Things" following his long speech at the Democratic National Convention. Clinton, of course, is a much more qualified "explainer of things" than me, and his imaginary new role sounds more prestigious, but I appreciate your nomination all the same.

There is bias in a lot of my views (go figure), but I would hope that my comments about the peculiarities of American politics (and how we elect our officials) are straight and clear. Presidential campaigns grow weary on many, and they can seem to upstage governing itself. However, I've learned to appreciate our federalist system (despite the inherent inequalities of the Electoral College), and I find that these contests offer remarkable insight on what the people of my country are thinking. Also, as Obama curtly told Rep. Eric Cantor ® early in his term, "Elections have consequences." One day in November can drastically alter the path of our country (and the world) for years. I hope that the trend over the past eight years towards increased voter turnout and participation in the political process continues, because these decisions really are that important.

How is the final debate being viewed over there, Jordan? The impression in the UK seems to be that, while Obama may just have shaded it, it probably won't make much difference on election day. Any post-debate polls?

The impression seems to be that both candidates were trying to counter particular negative images of themselves (Obama acting tough and authoritative to counter suggestions of weakness; Romney adopting a softer line to avoid being seen as a gung-ho warmonger). Both battling for the middle-ground, I suppose - those "crucial swing voters", as it is usually phrased over here, namely the ignorant, uninterested or gullible, who often decide "first past the post" elections.

I'm generally in favour of federalism (or the devolution of more power to local councils or regions in a UK context), though it can go too far, and checks and balances are required. The UK seems to have too few of those - all power centralised in London (apart from Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland) and councils ever more neutered. Meanwhile, the USA seems to end up hamstrung by checks and balances half the time, with endless battles between President, House of Representatives & Senate....maybe your next "mission to inform" lecture could address this topic?!

I find following the US election an alternative way into understanding (or imagining that I understand) just a little more about that strange country and its diverse states. It remains one of my dreams to do an extended road-trip through the US...