fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 I'd like to preface this with I DO NOT WANT PEARSON SACKED and I do not know the answer. However, he put out a side tonight which he felt (and lets be honest most of us felt) could comfortably dispatch Burton. Come the final whistle we've been comprehensively dumped out with barely a whimper. Why? What made the players think they could strut around, what made players who have been condemned to the sidelines waste a great opportunity to stake a claim for a spot in a side which has struggled to score? This result has nothing to do with tactics, this is a mentality thing why did those players not take it upon them selves to put on a performance when they seemingly had everything to gain by doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 It was the league cup. They didnt care. 2 cbs returning from injury... do you REALLY think they were going to put it all on the line in their first game back and risk being sidelined for the rest of the season... Futacs returning from injury.... Schlupp returning from injury... Waghorns first game in how long? wasnt he recently injured? I for one am glad we are out of this cup. Would of liked to of played better... which is incidently what we did when it mattered - IN THE LEAGUE. I do also believe that the results in the league will come good and that Pearson is the right man for the Job. Our performances, passion and quality of play in the league have already been a huge step forward to what we were subjected to last season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 Well they are probably not full of confidence, Danns, Gally, Schlupp, Waghorn have managed 20 minutes of league football between them this season, they are down the pecking order and probably realised this was the reserve team and they were only playing to keep our good players from getting fatigued. Whereas Knockeart knew he was playing to impress and to break into the first team and was by all accounts our best player. SSL, Whitbread, Futacs are all looking for fitness, so in that sense it was a good work out for them, and they have shown they are not ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertine Dream Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 Its a case of players not having the work ethic, the desire, the right attitude or the correct mentality. Thos players have shown what theyre about and shouldn't be nesr the first team any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 It was the league cup. They didnt care. 2 cbs returning from injury... do you REALLY think they were going to put it all on the line in their first game back and risk being sidelined for the rest of the season... Futacs returning from injury.... Schlupp returning from injury... Waghorns first game in how long? wasnt he recently injured? I for one am glad we are out of this cup. Would of liked to of played better... which is incidently what we did when it mattered - IN THE LEAGUE. I do also believe that the results in the league will come good and that Pearson is the right man for the Job. Our performances, passion and quality of play in the league have already been a huge step forward to what we were subjected to last season.... But those responses raise serious questions about the thinking of the manager, he either criminally misjudged the psyche of the players or instilled a terrible ethic in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 Very observant of you Mike. To be honest, not something I'd ever hear hurled at a Nigel Pearson team. Very surprising to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 But those responses raise serious questions about the thinking of the manager, he either criminally misjudged the psyche of the players or instilled a terrible ethic in the side. Or instilled the idea that its the league that counts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 If fans can't be arsed it's likely players earning a fortune won't either. Very sad people can't get up for a game if that's your job. And worrying the manager get get them to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 Well they are probably not full of confidence, Danns, Gally, Schlupp, Waghorn have managed 20 minutes of league football between them this season, they are down the pecking order and probably realised this was the reserve team and they were only playing to keep our good players from getting fatigued. Whereas Knockeart knew he was playing to impress and to break into the first team and was by all accounts our best player. SSL, Whitbread, Futacs are all looking for fitness, so in that sense it was a good work out for them, and they have shown they are not ready. But why would they think that? James has started the first two games and Waghorn received very high praise from Pearson in the final game of last season when he wished all our players shared the desire and work ethic of Martyn. I just find it perplexing that he'd field such a side if he felt so many would fail to rise to the challenge Pearson monitors fitness fastidiously, in my opinion he would not and has never fielded players who are not fit enough for a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 But those responses raise serious questions about the thinking of the manager, he either criminally misjudged the psyche of the players or instilled a terrible ethic in the side. Well I don't really agree with having a first team, it has been clear from the Torquay game NP has his idea of who his first team is and who his first reserves were, now King and Nugent have got ahead of James and Beckford in the pecking order and someone is knocking on Dyer's door, but the rest haven't had a look in and being thrown a game against Burton with the rest of the reserves is not going to be motivation, this was clearly nothing more than a distraction to NP, and that was probably reflected in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEFATBASTARD Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 Its clear some of that lot didn't want to play for the gaffer...either they will go or he will.... watershed moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 Very observant of you Mike. To be honest, not something I'd ever hear hurled at a Nigel Pearson team. Very surprising to say the least. That's the thing, for all the criticism of Pearson, and there has been considerable from a vocal minority (in which I would include myself in previous seasons though not this one), you could never acuse Pearson of those two things, until possibly now if we are to believe mph interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 Well I don't really agree with having a first team, it has been clear from the Torquay game NP has his idea of who his first team is and who his first reserves were, now King and Nugent have got ahead of James and Beckford in the pecking order and someone is knocking on Dyer's door, but the rest haven't had a look in and being thrown a game against Burton with the rest of the reserves is not going to be motivation, this was clearly nothing more than a distraction to NP, and that was probably reflected in the team. Does that not concern you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertine Dream Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 Well I don't really agree with having a first team, it has been clear from the Torquay game NP has his idea of who his first team is and who his first reserves were, now King and Nugent have got ahead of James and Beckford in the pecking order and someone is knocking on Dyer's door, but the rest haven't had a look in and being thrown a game against Burton with the rest of the reserves is not going to be motivation, this was clearly nothing more than a distraction to NP, and that was probably reflected in the team. But shouldnt they be playing out of their skin to show NP that they should be in his idea of what the team should be? King and Nugent did that by playing well when they came on in the first two league games. It was a half arsed effort from players that will be moaning about not getting game time despite being presented with a chnace to force NP to give them game time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylesta Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 It was the league cup. They didnt care. 2 cbs returning from injury... do you REALLY think they were going to put it all on the line in their first game back and risk being sidelined for the rest of the season... Futacs returning from injury.... Schlupp returning from injury... Waghorns first game in how long? wasnt he recently injured? I for one am glad we are out of this cup. Would of liked to of played better... which is incidently what we did when it mattered - IN THE LEAGUE. I do also believe that the results in the league will come good and that Pearson is the right man for the Job. Our performances, passion and quality of play in the league have already been a huge step forward to what we were subjected to last season.... didn't waghorn score in may Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelcfc Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 Sorry, but I don't buy into 'it only the league cup' , you want to win every game no matter who it's against or what competition it is and i know that is something NP has always preached. The team didn't have the right mentality to win the game and deserved to lose to a good Burton side. I think we are lucky it was only 4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 That's the thing, for all the criticism of Pearson, and there has been considerable from a vocal minority (in which I would include myself in previous seasons though not this one), you could never acuse Pearson of those two things, until possibly now if we are to believe mph interpretation. I would absolutely believe and would find it strange anyone would think otherwise, that Pearson considers the league as more important than anything else. It boggles my mind that anyone would think otherwise about Pearson. However that is different to how you are misintepreting my comments - That Pearson would ever throw a game. He's a winner and plays to win. Burton came and played a blinder and raised their came - If that result would stand true for the rest of their season then i would expect them to win every single game. and finish the league on 46 wins. And on this showing we should lose every single one of ours if we can not beat league 2 opposition. Or maybe just maybe they were really really up for it? and some of our lads really really were not? Coupled with several returning from Injury... and Waghorns 2nd game in how long? I Believe its just that simple.... You'll probably get prem teams losing to league 1 or league two clubs in this years cup competitions.... do you REALLY think it suddenly makes them bad teams if they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitwickfox Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 If Waggy was that bad, how come he stayed on for the 90 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 Sorry, but I don't buy into 'it only the league cup' , you want to win every game no matter who it's against or what competition it is and i know that is something NP has always preached. The team didn't have the right mentality to win the game and deserved to lose to a good Burton side. I think we are lucky it was only 4-2. I agree, even Pearson's biggest critic would never be able to point to such a lacklustre performance previously. That was either mutinous or a gross miscalculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 I would absolutely believe and would find it strange anyone would think otherwise, that Pearson considers the league as more important than anything else. It boggles my mind that anyone would think otherwise about Pearson. However that is different to how you are misintepreting my comments - That Pearson would ever throw a game. He's a winner and plays to win. Burton came and played a blinder and raised their came - If that result would stand true for the rest of their season then i would expect them to win every single game. and finish the league on 46 wins. And on this showing we should lose every single one of ours if we can not beat league 2 opposition. Or maybe just maybe they were really really up for it? and some of our lads really really were not? Coupled with several returning from Injury... and Waghorns 2nd game in how long? I Believe its just that simple.... You'll probably get prem teams losing to league 1 or league two clubs in this years cup competitions.... do you REALLY think it suddenly makes them bad teams if they do? I agree to an extent but what made those players think the cup was an unnecessary distraction and that they could get away with that level of performance? They seemed neither enthused by the challenge or frightened by the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty78 Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 I absolutely hate seeing that many changes to a starting line up and I think that was the first mistake but I agree it should still be enough to win and certainly good enough to not concede four times. Why wouldn't a team of players be sufficiently motivated in a competitive cup match when it gives them the opportunity to cement a first team place? The only reason I could think of is if they believe they are not going to stay in the team regardless of performance. If Pearson has used this a last chance for a few players to impress before selling/loaning out and picked them knowing it might not be enough to win then he is a fool given the ambition of the club. I can't believe he would be that daft and he must have been reasonably confident the side he put out could win. Whatever the reason, it will undoubtedly add pressure to lose in such a manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 I agree to an extent but what made those players think the cup was an unnecessary distraction and that they could get away with that level of performance? They seemed neither enthused by the challenge or frightened by the consequences. Well lets look at the players. Whitbread, SSL, Schlupp and Futaks all returning from injury. Gallagher, Waghorn, and Danns playing their first game of the season ( and Waghorns only 2nd game in how long?!?) Knocky making his first start in English football which leaves us with just Konch, RDL and James as players with first team experience this season. You are right that Pearson would not play an unfit player. However there is a difference between being fit and being match fit ( also called match sharp) You then also have a huge mix of players playing together for the first time playing against an Average 2nd division team who were well up for it and were used to what each other could do. Mikey, i find alot of your posts intresting to read and i dont mean to insult you but it would be naive of you to think, no matter what instructions or winning mentality the manager has, that playing on a tuesday night against Burton in front of barely 8,000 fans ( some of which were Burtons anyway) would fire up the players just as much as playing at home in front of 25k on a saturday afternoon against a promotion contender. Motivation is a big issue. for the opposition as well as us. Otherwise we can now say Burton are a better team than we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 28 August 2012 Author Share Posted 28 August 2012 Well lets look at the players. Whitbread, SSL, Schlupp and Futaks all returning from injury. Gallagher, Waghorn, and Danns playing their first game of the season ( and Waghorns only 2nd game in how long?!?) Knocky making his first start in English football which leaves us with just Konch, RDL and James as players with first team experience this season. You are right that Pearson would not play an unfit player. However there is a difference between being fit and being match fit ( also called match sharp) You then also have a huge mix of players playing together for the first time playing against an Average 2nd division team who were well up for it and were used to what each other could do. Mikey, i find alot of your posts intresting to read and i dont mean to insult you but it would be naive of you to think, no matter what instructions or winning mentality the manager has, that playing on a tuesday night against Burton in front of barely 8,000 fans ( some of which were Burtons anyway) would fire up the players just as much as playing at home in front of 25k on a saturday afternoon against a promotion contender. Motivation is a big issue. for the opposition as well as us. Otherwise we can now say Burton are a better team than we are? But that's just it, for all my doubts about Pearson as a manager motivation has never been one of them. I may have disagreed with his line up, formation, style, subs, demeanour in the past but never have I felt he's misjudged either his own players motivation and drive or the standard of opponent. I've never seen players do that to him, tonight they didn't let him down they (and I don't use the term lightly) humiliated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 So the players aren't playing for the manager who would of thought it hey dressing room discontent oh now that doesn't bode well does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMMYWILLIS Posted 28 August 2012 Share Posted 28 August 2012 If they need 25k fans to motivate them they can **** off to a top league and 'get motivated' Somehow I don't think there is a massive queue of clubs waiting to take them there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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