Fox92 Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 I rated mattock I did, and still do. Decent left full back, especially at this level. Still think he would be our left back now, if he didn't leave.
Corky Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 Bruno was a better player than Mattock, we did well out of the deal.
Petchy Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 How do you know that? Maybe we would have apointed Pearson and he'd have done what he ended up doing anyway. Who's to say we wouldn't have done better the next season because we'd have appointed a better manager (I seem to remember strong rumours we would have let Ollie go anyway). ? This idea that 1) we're in a much better position now and 2) that we are in that position because we got relegated has little evidence to support it, it's just one theory based on little. Very strange stances there... even stranger than the fact you want to debate something that's very much in the past now.
Fox92 Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 Bruno was a better player than Mattock, we did well out of the deal. Oh yeah, I do agree... Pre Swansea I was nervous because he used to foul a lot in midfield during League One, but he proved to be a solid left back after Mattock left.
davieG Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 Very strange stances there... even stranger than the fact you want to debate something that's very much in the past now. It's debated because people continue to say we're better off having been relegated with not an iota of proof that we are. You can think it but it's not a fact one way or the other. The only real facts are gaining Tier 3 Champions against losing 1 of 9 never to have played below Tier 2 level status. which do you prefer to have in the clubs history?
Corky Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 It's debated because people continue to say we're better off having been relegated with not an iota of proof that we are. You can think it but it's not a fact one way or the other. The only real facts are gaining Tier 3 Champions against losing 1 of 9 never to have played below Tier 2 level status. which do you prefer to have in the clubs history? I think not losing the 1 out of 9 thing is preferable in the long term, however at the time I was fed up of the mediocrity on the pitch that was only heading downwards. We got out of that for a couple of years thankfully.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 2 September 2012 Author Posted 2 September 2012 It's debated because people continue to say we're better off having been relegated with not an iota of proof that we are. You can think it but it's not a fact one way or the other. The only real facts are gaining Tier 3 Champions against losing 1 of 9 never to have played below Tier 2 level status. which do you prefer to have in the clubs history? We had our squad stripped back to the bones. Ego's were busted (of both fans and players) who said we were too big to go down. It was almost like the rebirth of the club IMO. It transformed us from a club flirting with relegation for a couple of seasons to an attractive prospect for people wanting to throw cash at us.
cc_star Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 How did relegation hold us back a year? We would have still just continued buying crap upon crap whereas after relegation we really took a complete evaluation of everything. In came a 'lesser known' manager who actually had a plan, unlike those before him. That season definitely made us more organised than we had been in around 5 years prior. This is my opinion too It gave us a great clearout of & players & manager, which after about 6 years of dross was much needed Importantly it enabled us to return to winning ways, which we hadn't had since 2002/03, purely because we got the right manager in, who also ensured we didn't languish down there like Leeds & Forest We bounced back well to become a force in this division too, what happened next was unrelated & unfortunate but on the whole it's difficult to image a change in fortunes from languishing around the bottom 1/3rd to becoming a playoff side with the majority of those players there & that manager too who incidentally seemed to learn a lot from his sacking.
Petchy Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 It's debated because people continue to say we're better off having been relegated with not an iota of proof that we are. You can think it but it's not a fact one way or the other. The only real facts are gaining Tier 3 Champions against losing 1 of 9 never to have played below Tier 2 level status. which do you prefer to have in the clubs history? But history is just that, I'd rather discuss the here and now even if the threads are about NP's hair....
davieG Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 We had our squad stripped back to the bones. Ego's were busted (of both fans and players) who said we were too big to go down. It was almost like the rebirth of the club IMO. It transformed us from a club flirting with relegation for a couple of seasons to an attractive prospect for people wanting to throw cash at us. This is my opinion too It gave us a great clearout of & players & manager, which after about 6 years of dross was much needed Importantly it enabled us to return to winning ways, which we hadn't had since 2002/03, purely because we got the right manager in, who also ensured we didn't languish down there like Leeds & Forest We bounced back well to become a force in this division too, what happened next was unrelated & unfortunate but on the whole it's difficult to image a change in fortunes from languishing around the bottom 1/3rd to becoming a playoff side with the majority of those players there & that manager too who incidentally seemed to learn a lot from his sacking. But you cannot say for sure what the alternative would have turn out so it's impossible to say we're better off, different obviously but better how can anyone say.
davieG Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 Left back in 07/08 that's where this topic should be, it's too painful to keep being reminded of our club at it's lowest ebb. But history is just that, I'd rather discuss the here and now even if the threads are about NP's hair.... I agree but i people insist on saying we're better off I'll continue to argue that they do not know what the alternative outcome would have been so therefore cannot say for certain that we're better off. Hence my quoted post above. Anyway I'm off now.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 2 September 2012 Author Posted 2 September 2012 But you cannot say for sure what the alternative would have turn out so it's impossible to say we're better off, different obviously but better how can anyone say. No, but we'd survived relegation before that, and continued with the same shit the following season. Not with Pearson no, but had Holloway kept us up he'd probably have kept his job. It's all ifs and buts I know. I just think with hindsight it was the best thing to happen to us
cc_star Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 But you cannot say for sure what the alternative would have turn out so it's impossible to say we're better off, different obviously but better how can anyone say. Yeah ok I agree, we can't say we're actually better off then... But I do feel it was good for us.
ADK Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 I think its highly likely we are better off from the relegation.
Kitchandro Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 I wonder what people would be saying if we had appointed some dumbass that didn't get us promoted.
Guest Col city fan Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 I always thought Joe Mattock was a very overrated player. I don' think I saw him ever have a really good game in a City shirt.
Petchy Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 I wonder what people would be saying if we had appointed some dumbass that didn't get us promoted. The same as if we stayed up and that 'dumbass' maintained our 'relegation fodder' status in the Championship as it was at that time. Time does wonderful things, but don't be disillusioned. We narrowly escaped relegation the year before, and we were on the decline.
Kitchandro Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 The same as if we stayed up and that 'dumbass' maintained our 'relegation fodder' status in the Championship as it was at that time. Time does wonderful things, but don't be disillusioned. We narrowly escaped relegation the year before, and we were on the decline. What I'm saying is if we were relegated and then didn't come up you wouldn't be saying relegation was good for us. It was in fact the appointment of Pearson that was the changing point, not relegation. Just because we were on the decline after hiring some hopeless managers doesn't mean we couldn't have improved had we hired the right one at the right time. As I said, I'm not convinced we'd have kept Holloway at all.
Petchy Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 What I'm saying is if we were relegated and then didn't come up you wouldn't be saying relegation was good for us. It was in fact the appointment of Pearson that was the changing point, not relegation. Just because we were on the decline after hiring some hopeless managers doesn't mean we couldn't have improved had we hired the right one at the right time. As I said, I'm convinced we'd have kept Holloway at all. Which wouldn't have happened had we not got relegated, I'm almost certain of that.
Corky Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 I always thought Joe Mattock was a very overrated player. I don' think I saw him ever have a really good game in a City shirt. Mattock was never really taken to by the fans, which is surprising given that he is local to the club and came through the ranks. Given his subsequent career we did well to offload him when we did.
Guest Col city fan Posted 2 September 2012 Posted 2 September 2012 Mattock was never really taken to by the fans, which is surprising given that he is local to the club and came through the ranks. Given his subsequent career we did well to offload him when we did. He bought a house just near me a couple of years back (Whetstone).. He's at Sheff Weds now I think?
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