Dross in our squad?

[marty78]

Nope, I am patient... what I won't do is the simple thing of laying all the blame at the feet (or head) of Moore, Mills, Bamba, SSL, Peltier et al.

You watch, RDL will be the next one to become ostracised for shipping soft goals.. Like Peltier was last season. Either they are all pretty poor, or they are not supported enough by the midfield. I think its the latter.

Fair enough, I don't think so and am prepared to give this seasons side a few more games before I start saying there is something seriously wrong with team and tactics the manager insists on playing. Your criticism is that the tactics are wrong away from home and, after three defeats, you think this is a major problem which will leave us short of where you think we should be and to me that sounds impatient towards the managers ideas and impatient towards the players he is just trying to teach his system to. Maybe our definitions of patience differ somewhat but fair enough.

[Col city fan]

Fair enough, I don't think so and am prepared to give this seasons side a few more games before I start saying there is something seriously wrong with team and tactics the manager insists on playing. Your criticism is that the tactics are wrong away from home and, after three defeats, you think this is a major problem which will leave us short of where you think we should be and to me that sounds impatient towards the managers ideas and impatient towards the players he is just trying to teach his system to. Maybe our definitions of patience differ somewhat but fair enough.

Marty, read what I say..

Its NOT only three matches this season mate.

Last season (like this one I believe) will be the fortress King Power..we wont lose many at home.

Last season away from home was very much the opposite. And so continues.

[absolutelegend]

Is it only me that thinks DD isn't good enough?

[marbelladave]

It isn't that at all. So far this season we've had 43 corners to our opponents' 25, so clearly we're doing a far better job of creating openings and/or defending than you're giving is credit for.

Either that or the two aren't linked.

We are getting more corners because we we are playing a more attacking style, getting more players forward leaves our defence exposed and under pressure, hence more mistakes.

Spot on Dave... You seem to appreciate that its the pressure that the rest of the team is put under which makes us concede free kicks and the like so often. The back four then get bombarded.

Keep the ball better, control the game more and the pressure placed onto our defenders becomes less.

'conceding from set pieces' becomes less of an issue if we don't concede as many set pieces.

This has been self evident from the time NFP left. Sousa caused chaos, Sven thought Wellens a defensive midfielder and now NFP seems to have no idea how to set up this team defensively......

I'm sorry but Moore giving the ball away stupidly had nothing to do with lack of support, no DM, not having 75 players in our half defending. It was to do with him making a terrible pass and a poor decision. He could have just kicked it out of play if he wasn't sure. He and only he chose to try something stupid and pumped the ball straight to their player.

You and Dave seem to attempt to make every mistake fit into what you believe is wrong. When sometimes there is a much clearer and simpler reason. A terrible decision by a player to choose the more difficult option.

If you go through every goal in our history you can probably point the finger and say oooh more cover would have stopped that, or oooh a DM would have been in the right place to stop that.

Moore clearly made a bad decision, that is obvious. Why did he make that decision is what is important, our current game plan is to move on from the days of Wayne Brown and play the ball out of defence in a controlled way.

It is my assertion that a lack of players 'supporting' Moore by showing for the ball gave him limited options and he chose the wrong one.

We need to make it easy for our young, inexperienced players to make the right choices and it is my view that our setup makes it more difficult, not less.

[dannythefox]

Dyer is dross!

[Col city fan]

We are getting more corners because we we are playing a more attacking style, getting more players forward leaves our defence exposed and under pressure, hence more mistakes.

This has been self evident from the time NFP left. Sousa caused chaos, Sven thought Wellens a defensive midfielder and now NFP seems to have no idea how to set up this team defensively......

Moore clearly made a bad decision, that is obvious. Why did he make that decision is what is important, our current game plan is to move on from the days of Wayne Brown and play the ball out of defence in a controlled way.

It is my assertion that a lack of players 'supporting' Moore by showing for the ball gave him limited options and he chose the wrong one.

We need to make it easy for our young, inexperienced players to make the right choices and it is my view that our setup makes it more difficult, not less.

Dave, would you please stop making so much sense at the moment. How can we have our banter when I keep agreeing with you?

Hold on lets have a go:

'This keeping possession and playing it to the strikers through the middle is bollox... get it out wide and float in crosses to Vardy..that'll get us the fookin goals'.....

There, back to normal...

[marty78]

Marty, read what I say..

Its NOT only three matches this season mate.

Last season (like this one I believe) will be the fortress King Power..we wont lose many at home.

Last season away from home was very much the opposite. And so continues.

It is only three matches this season, that is a fact, not an opinion. I understand that some people can't give a team a clean slate regardless of the number of new players and that is their prerogative but I am judging the team on the games where these players have played rather than games where Bamba, Mills, Peltier and others, who our manager never signed or rated (it would seem), have played.

If you think Pearson doesn't have a clue tactically then why would you like him and want to support him and if you don't think that then why not give him a chance to put right the mistakes so far? If I thought that Pearson was as tactically inept as you suggest then I would be very much part of the Pearson out brigade. If you rated his defensive set up previously then do you think he has forgotten how or that he isn't intelligent enough to see what you and a few others are seeing?

[marbelladave]

Dave, would you please stop making so much sense at the moment. How can we have our banter when I keep agreeing with you?

Hold on lets have a go:

'This keeping possession and playing it to the strikers through the middle is bollox... get it out wide and float in crosses to Vardy..that'll get us the fookin goals'.....

There, back to normal...

Currently we are not playing as a unit and that, for a team managed by NFP, is troubling. In 2009/10 he took a modestly talented side to the playoffs mostly by good team spirit and the ability to produce performances that were, much of the time, greater than the sum of the parts.

This is the exact opposite of this season, where we often look good but fail to get the job done, mainly because we fail to combine some decent individual play into a coherent team performance.

[Guest ttfn]

We are getting more corners because we we are playing a more attacking style, getting more players forward leaves our defence exposed and under pressure, hence more mistakes.

Come on, think about this.

If our formation is causing us to concede corners, which are responsible for us losing matches, what does it say that we are getting MORE CORNERS THAN THE OPPOSITION? This is not me comparing with last year, so it being "more attacking" is rubbish. Unless you're comparing to it being "more attacking" than our opponents. In which case why has their (by definition) more conservative approach yielded more corners to us?

Either the formation isn't to blame, and it's individual errors at corners costing us, or the formation is to blame for us conceding set pieces, but for some reason we've got 75% more corners than our opponents.

There is nothing wrong with the formation.

[Babylon]

Right...

The strange thing is that, during Pearson's championship play-off season, we kept 17 clean sheets (the 4th best in the league)?

Last season, Hull kept 18 clean sheets (the 2nd best in the league).

Therefore, you are implying:

A. Jack Hobbs is a fookin good defender at this level?

B. Our current defence, by comparison, is shite. This is not good seeing as our manager is an ex-defender?

C. All of our various defenders, vis-a-vis Pearson's previous City team, and Hull were also shite?

I think Pearson sets up good defences. If you don't agree with A,B or C, something else must be the problem.....

Or, if you do agree with A,B or C..well ok....

My opinion is that our current (and last seasons squad) can't defend well as a team. (I'm sure Pearson even said this in the post-match interview yesterday?) Even when we had Steve Howard playing we could lump it up to him, he could keep it and take pressure off the rest of the team. And Wellens, when a couple of years younger, could get the ball from the back four and keep it for a bit. This is my theory. Therefore, my solution would be to put some steel in the midfield and play a striker who can retain the ball better. If not, A,B, or C must be true.

How many times do you need me to say I agree we do not play well as a unit. Do you bang your head inbetween posts and forget everything that has gone on before.

What I disagree with is you coming on here after every mistake and jumping on everything being the fault of not having a DM. Or Morgan not organising people. When sometimes, just sometimes there is a far clearer reason why. A **** up by a player that put us in that position.

You can argue til next next Christmas about whether more cover would have stopped this mistake, that mistake or this goal and that goal. There is nothing factual about your argument. What is factual is that Moore ****ed up royally by making a stupid mistake. He has several options, one of them being very simple, kick it out if nothing is on. He choose wrongly and pumped it into a terrible area straight to their player.

If you don't have the support, do the simple stuff.

[Babylon]

We need to make it easy for our young, inexperienced players to make the right choices and it is my view that our setup makes it more difficult, not less.

He's a pro and has probably played more than I have already in my life. But it's quite simple, if the ball aint on, if you are under pressure, put the ball in row z. Play the ball out when you can not at all costs. This is basic stuff that doesn't need to be over complicated.

[marbelladave]

How many times do you need me to say I agree we do not play well as a unit. Do you bang your head inbetween posts and forget everything that has gone on before.

What I disagree with is you coming on here after every mistake and jumping on everything being the fault of not having a DM. Or Morgan not organising people. When sometimes, just sometimes there is a far clearer reason why. A **** up by a player that put us in that position.

You can argue til next next Christmas about whether more cover would have stopped this mistake, that mistake or this goal and that goal. There is nothing factual about your argument. What is factual is that Moore ****ed up royally by making a stupid mistake. He has several options, one of them being very simple, kick it out us nothing is on. He choose wrongly and pumped it into a terrible area straight to their player.

If you don't have the support, do the simple stuff.

In this instance you are correct, very poor decision from Moore.

However I maintain that a young and inexperienced centre back needs to have his team mates make things as easy as possible for him and I don't think that is the case.

You say so yourself, Moore is a very decent young player and has played a hell of a lot of football, but he is a novice at this level.

That said, he is clearly good enough to be making better decisions so why did he get this one so wrong?.......

I am simply suggesting that this and other mistakes are caused by pressure and the pressure comes from playing in a defence that is poorly set up and routinely left exposed by a defensively poor midfield.

Of course it could be that Moore is never going to be anything other than the Tit**** Bumble of league 2 but for the moment I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt......

[Col city fan]

In this instance you are correct, very poor decision from Moore.

However I maintain that a young and inexperienced centre back needs to have his team mates make things as easy as possible for him and I don't think that is the case.

You say so yourself, Moore is a very decent young player and has played a hell of a lot of football, but he is a novice at this level.

That said, he is clearly good enough to be making better decisions so why did he get this one so wrong?.......

I am simply suggesting that this and other mistakes are caused by pressure and the pressure comes from playing in a defence that is poorly set up and routinely left exposed by a defensively poor midfield.

Of course it could be that Moore is never going to be anything other than the Tit**** Bumble of league 2 but for the moment I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt......

Thats all I'm suggesting... and could explain why a plethora of defenders have demonstrated the same defensive frailties over a long time.

Alternatively you can go with the view that they have ALL been not good enough..

Pah..

There Babs, I've done it again..

[Babylon]

That said, he is clearly good enough to be making better decisions so why did he get this one so wrong?.......

People make mistakes, I'm amazing and I make loads

[Babylon]

Thats all I'm suggesting... and could explain why a plethora of defenders have demonstrated the same defensive frailties over a long time.

Alternatively you can go with the view that they have ALL been not good enough..

Pah..

There Babs, I've done it again..

Or you go with it being a bit of both.

[Babylon]

The most frustrating thing is that we don't seem a million miles away from getting it right. We have shown in large chunks of almost every game that we can play. Some fine tuning is all we need for me, whether Pearson is capable of doing that I don't know. But I hate the thought of someone coming in and ripping stuff up to start again, I hope they give him time to try and sort it out with this group.

[5waller5]

What the ****?

First Season - He was here for the entire season on loan, did a very good job (Like much better than Beckford in this league and I'm pretty sure you rate him). Maybe the fact that you think it was only 2 or 3 months shows exactly how much you know about him, and Leicester in general.

Second Season - Missused by Sousa, played on the wing. Then again misused by Sven before eventually being phased out. Not used upfront in a 4-4-2, clearly his favoured role and also the system we currently employ.

Third Season - Injured pretty much all season.

Which one to you seems the fairest to judge him on?

You're right about his season long loan - I thought it was less.

He's scored 19 goals in his career of 103 senior appearances. Does that sound like a decent striker to you??

He did score 12 of them in his 28 games on loan for us ....

Leaving just 7 goals in the other75 games!!!!

So he hit some form in one loan spell and apart from that has had 2-3 season's worth of games scoring in less than one in ten of them.

You carry on justifying the lad, it's endearing that you can be so blindly loyal.

[5waller5]

The most frustrating thing is that we don't seem a million miles away from getting it right. We have shown in large chunks of almost every game that we can play. Some fine tuning is all we need for me, whether Pearson is capable of doing that I don't know. But I hate the thought of someone coming in and ripping stuff up to start again, I hope they give him time to try and sort it out with this group.

Yup, i agree with that, but i think we were closer with Sven and therefore have spent a long time making changes to go no where ..... which is exactly what you are saying - let's not do it all again!!!

[Col city fan]

The most frustrating thing is that we don't seem a million miles away from getting it right. We have shown in large chunks of almost every game that we can play. Some fine tuning is all we need for me, whether Pearson is capable of doing that I don't know. But I hate the thought of someone coming in and ripping stuff up to start again, I hope they give him time to try and sort it out with this group.

Until yesterday I was in full agreement.

Looked a bit more like 'fine tuning' needed for me though to be honest.

If we were obviously starting to look BETTER every game I'd be more satisfied. But the whole Danns thing, not even having Beckford as third choice striker and conceding daft goals is all rather bizarre IMO. It makes me wonder, perhaps for the first time actually, whether Nige may have lost the plot a little.

I dunno...

Next two games I'm gonna be looking for points and something to suggest we are really starting to look consistently better.

[Mark_w]

Leaving just 7 goals in the other75 games!!!!

The majority of those games, as I said either came when he was played on the wing or off the bench with 5 or 10 minutes to make a difference. You could just as easily focus on the fact that during three different spells under Nigel Pearson he has a record of around 1 in every 3.5 games under Pearson. Our current manager.

[I blame Wellens]

I've said before and will say it again.

I think we have a squad of quite average players.

King isn't as great as people think he is.

Ben Marshall has lots to learn.

Vardy looks talented, but raw.

Compared to quite a few of the squads this season we are mediocre at present.

We needed more quality over the summer. We didn't get it. We must now somehow get the best out of what we have.

But it's average I'm afraid.

The only player today who looked like he had the footballing brain to bring the ball down and slot it through to the oncoming strikers was Knocky. He strikes me as a player who has been schooled in a different way. He can keep the ball at feet, look up and play the correct ball at the correct time. And he doesn't automatically look to get the ball out wide at his earliest opportunity.

Everybody else looked like merely a mediocre Championship side. Which I think we probably are.

Without having the ability to put any sort of run together home and away, we will finish outside the play offs.

[I blame Wellens]

Yes spot on but think we will squeeze in to the play offs because this early in to the season, even with the current sh@t performances I will remain glass half full. Though it is quickly emptying.

[marbelladave]

People make mistakes, I'm amazing and I make loads

The most frustrating thing is that we don't seem a million miles away from getting it right. We have shown in large chunks of almost every game that we can play. Some fine tuning is all we need for me, whether Pearson is capable of doing that I don't know. But I hate the thought of someone coming in and ripping stuff up to start again, I hope they give him time to try and sort it out with this group.

Could not agree more with both these sentiments....... :thumbup:

Just to add, although we were talking about Moore's glaring error this is just one example of poor decision making that has plagued our team this season.......

Yes we all make mistakes, but if the team is playing well they are not always so harmfull. At the moment we are playing so poorly as a unit that virtually every error seems to cost us.

Furthermore, it is interesting that you are now suggesting that these problems are NFP's to sort out, you call it tinkering, I call it getting the formation and set up right.......

Mind you, if we ever get to agree on this then we will know one thing for certain......

We are both wrong.......

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Fingers crossed we can turn this season around. Very early to be saying that I know but already we can't string 2 results together, never mind going on a promotion run!!!!

[Babylon]

Furthermore, it is interesting that you are now suggesting that these problems are NFP's to sort out, you call it tinkering, I call it getting the formation and set up right.......

Of course it's his problem to sort out, if he has a defender consistently making mistakes, he either oaches him to try and stop him doing it. If it's confidence, try and give him some. If it's tactics sort them out. If the player is shit, replace them.