FoxesAreBlue Posted 15 October 2012 Posted 15 October 2012 Just saw this on twitter and thought that it made an interesting read for you to argue about. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mobileweb/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html Physicists May Have Evidence Universe Is A Computer Simulation Huffington Post UK Comments (449) Physicists say they may have evidence that the universe is a computer simulation. How? They made a computer simulation of the universe. And it looks sort of like us. A long-proposed thought experiment, put forward by both philosophers and popular culture, points out that any civilisation of sufficient size and intelligence would eventually create a simulation universe if such a thing were possible. And since there would therefore be many more simulations (within simulations, within simulations) than real universes, it is therefore more likely than not that our world is artificial. Now a team of researchers at the University of Bonn in Germany led by Silas Beane say they have evidence this may be true. In a paper named 'Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation', they point out that current simulations of the universe - which do exist, but which are extremely weak and small - naturally put limits on physical laws. Technology Review explains that "the problem with all simulations is that the laws of physics, which appear continuous, have to be superimposed onto a discrete three dimensional lattice which advances in steps of time." What that basically means is that by just being a simulation, the computer would put limits on, for instance, the energy that particles can have within the program. These limits would be experienced by those living within the sim - and as it turns out, something which looks just like these limits do in fact exist. For instance, something known as the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin, or GZK cut off, is an apparent boundary of the energy that cosmic ray particles can have. This is caused by interaction with cosmic background radiation. But Beane and co's paper argues that the pattern of this rule mirrors what you might expect from a computer simulation. Naturally, at this point the science becomes pretty tricky to wade through - and we would advise you read the paper itself to try and get the full detail of the idea. But the basic impression is an intriguing one. Like a prisoner in a pitch-black cell, we may never be able to see the 'walls' of our prison -- but through physics we may be able to reach out and touch them.
Harry - LCFC Posted 15 October 2012 Posted 15 October 2012 Interesting really, I find it hard to comprehend the idea of being artificial. I don't feel as if a human could possibly be simulated because of how complex each individual is, but then again technology advances all the time and what we once thought was unreachable is now used in everyday life e.g. computers and databases, so I suppose this "super simulation" or matrix idea may have been discovered by someone. I don't believe it to be true personally, I think the world is just too complicated to have been generated by a (relatively) unintelligent computer. In addition, if this matrix theory is true I wonder what the real world is like? Is it any different to ours or is it actually very similar?
BoneDog Posted 15 October 2012 Posted 15 October 2012 Interesting really, I find it hard to comprehend the idea of being artificial. I don't feel as if a human could possibly be simulated because of how complex each individual is, but then again technology advances all the time and what we once thought was unreachable is now used in everyday life e.g. computers and databases, so I suppose this "super simulation" or matrix idea may have been discovered by someone. I don't believe it to be true personally, I think the world is just too complicated to have been generated by a (relatively) unintelligent computer. In addition, if this matrix theory is true I wonder what the real world is like? Is it any different to ours or is it actually very similar? It's very similar. Except that things seem alot more beautiful, trees are wider with acres of shade beneath them, and when/if we humans go there we won't piss, sh*t or flem up because our new bodies are to be a modified design - as they're going to be everlasting. Fascinating subject but nobody wants to talk about it down the pub. I always just end up playing darts.
ADK Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 A computer situation dosn't actually create anything so i don't follow the logic in this article.
ithuriel Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Remember watching an Horizon program that said the same thing a few years ago.
marty78 Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 We have long since known that the answer to the life, the Universe and everything is 42 but now we finally know the question. How many simulated Universes can a simulated Universe simulate? So long and thanks for all the fish.
Kitchandro Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 It's as good a theory as any I suppose. Though anyone can think of some crackpot bollocks and suggest there's sufficient evidence for it. There are no facts and there is no truth, just a universe full of crazy theories. You could all be robots. And so could I. But I'm glad something is keeping these nerds busy.
Monk Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Sounds like something out of the hitchhikers guide tot he galaxy. Maybe Slartibartfast did design the norwegian fjords after all.
Captain... Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Well this thread has just blown my tiny little mind, the logic is impeccable, but then there must always be a first, so why not us, maybe the religious nuts are right, maybe there is a god, and it is some spotty geek or even a handsome Brian Cox type who created us as a science project, and was monitoring us and looking after us and answering our prayers and guiding us on a path towards civilisation, until it struck him... " that any civilisation of sufficient size and intelligence would eventually create a simulation universe if such a thing were possible." Having proved it was possible, he therefore proved that it was highly probable that his existence was just a simulation, then he killed himself, our prayers went unanswered and anarchy ensued... ...or he downloaded himself into the Matrix, he was revered as a prophet, but then killed, fortunately he had installed an extra life. ...maybe.
MooseBreath Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Dog shit. To be fair the sheer weirdness of our situation here necessitates that the explanation be some crackpot theory like this. There is nothing logical about existing on a rock floating in the middle of an absolutely ginormous area of nothing
Mack Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 To be fair the sheer weirdness of our situation here necessitates that the explanation be some crackpot theory like this. There is nothing logical about existing on a rock floating in the middle of an absolutely ginormous area of nothing Why does there have to be an explanation? We exist because the conditions on this planet are conducive to it, like fungus on a rock, that's it.
Captain... Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Why does there have to be an explanation? We exist because the conditions on this planet are conducive to it, like fungus on a rock, that's it. Without taking into account the actual start of it all, which was a big bang, the likes of which they have already tried to replicate, and who is to say that they haven't created a new universe already with the experiments in cern, just in a different dimension to ours? Likewise that the big bang that created this universe wasn't created by some other being. How do you know we don't create it ourselves, that at some point in the future we will create the reverse of the big bang and everything will suck itself back into that moment of creation only to burst out the other side? Although that is different to a simulation, but we already create simulations with computers, simulating human life and behaviour patterns, obviously we are not a simulation, but if we were, how would we know?
marty78 Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Why does there have to be an explanation? Human curiosity, it's what makes us different from squirrels.
MooseBreath Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Why does there have to be an explanation? We exist because the conditions on this planet are conducive to it, like fungus on a rock, that's it. Yeah but why does the rock and the space it is in exist in the first place? It cannot 'just exist', there must be an explanation as to how and why it exists, it must be part of something else of which we do not yet have any knowledge.
Captain... Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Yeah but why does the rock and the space it is in exist in the first place? It cannot 'just exist', there must be an explanation as to how and why it exists, it must be part of something else of which we do not yet have any knowledge. They have finally decided that there was something before the big bang, which to me has always been obvious, but what I don't think we will ever know, but the Big Bang was not the start of everything, of all space time and matter, it was just the catalyst for this universe.
Mack Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 Yeah but why does the rock and the space it is in exist in the first place? It cannot 'just exist', there must be an explanation as to how and why it exists, it must be part of something else of which we do not yet have any knowledge. That sounds like a whole heap of guesses and second guesses some nerd will spend his whole life trying to put sense to. It does, and in it there are women, beer, the foxes and junk food! Who cares!?
Captain... Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 That sounds like a whole heap of guesses and second guesses some nerd will spend his whole life trying to put sense to. It does, and in it there are women, beer, the foxes and junk food! Who cares!? If that was the attitude of all human beings, then there wouldn't be football, beer or junk food.
Fox in the North Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 I'm sorry but i've just woke up, what the hell have I just read again?
Kitchandro Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 That sounds like a whole heap of guesses and second guesses some nerd will spend his whole life trying to put sense to. It does, and in it there are women, beer, the foxes and junk food! Who cares!? Welcome to life.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 16 October 2012 Posted 16 October 2012 It's at least as credible as any religion I've come across so far
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