Safe Standing - Support the Early Day motion

[1964FOX]

With that in mind have I earned my place at the table ?

Yes of course your place is reserved, there's no chairs though we all have to stand.

[Leicesterpool]

To be frankly honest I wasn't best pleased with Nigel returning i felt for one Sven shouldn't have been sacked and two i felt it was taking a step back. However so far Nigel as impressed and once again doing a fantastic job, the good thing about this team it's fairly young side with that little experience what is needed. I've been following Leicester for just over 13 years and i got to say so far I'm enjoying this season more than our league one promotion season.

Another thing to add I believe the squad we've got at the moment would even be good enough to get us into the premier league top ten! Good times ahead for the foxes However like i said in another post it could all change if Nigel leaves

Woops I've put this in wrong thread sorry can it be changed to the Pearson thread please

Edited 14 January 2013 by Leicesterpool

[flowwolf]

Yes of course your place is reserved, there's no chairs though we all have to stand.

:D :D Superb !

[flowwolf]

Because if it's possible Heysel holds even less relevance to the debate than Hillsborough.

That does not answer the question. You are either being deliberately evasive or you don't have a clue what you are on about. Put up or shut up.

Edited 15 January 2013 by flowwolf

[The Year Of The Fox]

It's an uphill task to get safe standing trials going and your pessimism about it's chances are reflective of most people's opinions I fear. But I am mightily impressed by the FSF, for once there is an organisation resembling something of the "German" mind set. Rather than pockets of disorganised supporters we have a proper campaigning approach going on. They're playing the game well and in spite of the Hillsborough/Heysel tragic events they are getting face time with some influential people and achieving some impressive lobbying. Will there be an overnight installation of safe standing throughout the land, I doubt it, but some trials within a few years doesn't seem impossible.

As to capacities, our "standing" section in L1 has a waiting list. This is not about converting the whole stadium, most fans *want* to sit let's be clear. But there is a (profitable) minority who want to stand, I think it's three times more fans in a safe standing row compared to the same space as seats. If they changed the upper section of L1 I'm confident the club would fill it with season ticket holders including folk who don't actually attend regularly at the moment.

You have to acknowledge the growing number of clubs that have publicly backed this and the SPL are in the process of changing their regulations to allow standing. CCTV technology has improved massively since the dark days and you'll probably have to have a membership card (i.e. you're only going to be naughty once before you get your banning order).

Not necessarily. The model I've seen can accomodate equal numbers as seated areas, or 1.5 times the amount (one person standing behind the other on the second step)

I think that all depends on the type of stadia its to be used in for a start, not to mention whether the services (bogs) will cope with extra numbers. The food queues are bad enough now with those tits we currently have.

Otherwise I agree with everything you say

[The Year Of The Fox]

They won't change the upper section of L1 to safe standing because of view restrictions, if they put it anywhere it will be in one of the corners or the kop.

What viewing restrictions? Do you mean L1 fans standing and blocking the away fans view of the Kop goal? I know what you mean if so, but its no different to how wel all stand now anyway

[The Year Of The Fox]

And I keep saying the opposite. Why on earth are clubs going to give up the control they have now. They have us all seated, minimum stewardship minimum policing minimum costs, no threat of people standing with other people throwing things on the pitch crouching behind them so as not to get caught on camera. It simply is not going to happen. Once in control they will always stay that way the old days are dead and buried.

The lad Weasel got caught throwing whatever it was whilst standing.

Again, its no different to L block or away fans standing and 'getting away with throwing things' (I've never seen anyone throw anything by the way)

The Chief Superintendant who visited the roadshow actually admitted it would be EASIER in terms of crowd control and locating and ejecting fans than it is with seated fans or indeed standing fans in seated areas.

Edited 15 January 2013 by lcfcstu

[flowwolf]

It's an uphill task to get safe standing trials going and your pessimism about it's chances are reflective of most people's opinions I fear. But I am mightily impressed by the FSF, for once there is an organisation resembling something of the "German" mind set. Rather than pockets of disorganised supporters we have a proper campaigning approach going on. They're playing the game well and in spite of the Hillsborough/Heysel tragic events they are getting face time with some influential people and achieving some impressive lobbying. Will there be an overnight installation of safe standing throughout the land, I doubt it, but some trials within a few years doesn't seem impossible.

As to capacities, our "standing" section in L1 has a waiting list. This is not about converting the whole stadium, most fans *want* to sit let's be clear. But there is a (profitable) minority who want to stand, I think it's three times more fans in a safe standing row compared to the same space as seats. If they changed the upper section of L1 I'm confident the club would fill it with season ticket holders including folk who don't actually attend regularly at the moment.

You have to acknowledge the growing number of clubs that have publicly backed this and the SPL are in the process of changing their regulations to allow standing. CCTV technology has improved massively since the dark days and you'll probably have to have a membership card (i.e. you're only going to be naughty once before you get your banning order).

Thanks Lobster at last I found and alternative view I can relate too. Case well put.

[flowwolf]

The lad Weasel got caught throwing whatever it was whilst standing.

Again, its no different to L block or away fans standing and 'getting away with throwing things' (I've never seen anyone throw anything by the way)

The Chief Superintendant who visited the roadshow actually admitted it would be EASIER in terms of crowd control and locating and ejecting fans than it is with seated fans or indeed standing fans in seated areas.

Wise up he got caught because by standing he was obvious , where as if all those around him were also standing it would be hard to identifiy the culprit. So someone throwing a coin in a seated area would be just as hard to identify as being in a a standing crowd ? your having a laugh.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Wise up he got caught because by standing he was obvious , where as if all those around him were also standing it would be hard to identifiy the culprit. So someone throwing a coin in a seated area would be just as hard to identify as being in a a standing crowd ? your having a laugh.

I'm led to believe those around him were standing?! Whether you're all standing or all sat, you're still roughly at the same height as everyone

[flowwolf]

Wise up he got caught because by standing he was obvious , where as if all those around him were also standing it would be hard to identifiy the culprit. So someone throwing a coin in a seated area would be just as hard to identify as being in a a standing crowd ? your having a laugh.

As for the superintendant who was just visiting, he was giving you lip service. He is has more intelligence ( that's why he is as superintendant) than you, and believe me there is nothing on the police agenda that would possibly support standing at any ground ever again after Hillsborough.

[The Year Of The Fox]

As for the superintendant who was just visiting, he was giving you lip service. He is has more intelligence ( that's why he is as superintendant) than you, and believe me there is nothing on the police agenda that would possibly support standing at any ground ever again after Hillsborough.

Maybe, though he seemed incredibly positive about it, far more so than I could've hoped.

Whether you're trying to be negative or realistic, its beside the point. If you don't try you'll never know.

[flowwolf]

I'm led to believe those around him were standing?! Whether you're all standing or all sat, you're still roughly at the same height as everyone

The point is not all the those around him were standing , so the cameras and the stewards had and easy task of seeing where the object was thrown from. Now if the whole stand had been standing and been able to shift about they could not have pinpointed the fvcking idiot in the first place.

[flowwolf]

Maybe, though he seemed incredibly positive about it, far more so than I could've hoped.

Whether you're trying to be negative or realistic, its beside the point. If you don't try you'll never know.

Well the authorities are not going to get a slating like they did at hillsborough ever again. Now that is being realistic. Would you put your name up saying safe standing would never lead to that tragedy again ? no and neither is any politcian or policeman. End of .

Edited 15 January 2013 by flowwolf

[Kitchandro]

That does not answer the question. You are either being deliberately evasive or you don't have a clue what you are on about. Put up or shut up.

What question is that?

You're bringing up incidents completely irrelevant to the standing debate, end of story.

[Lobsterboyuk]

Not necessarily. The model I've seen can accomodate equal numbers as seated areas, or 1.5 times the amount (one person standing behind the other on the second step)

I think that all depends on the type of stadia its to be used in for a start, not to mention whether the services (bogs) will cope with extra numbers. The food queues are bad enough now with those tits we currently have.

Otherwise I agree with everything you say

Good point about the bogs and the food

[Kitchandro]

Well the authorities are not going to get a slating like they did at hillsborough ever again. Now that is being realistic. Would you put your name up saying safe standing would never lead to that tragedy again ? no and neither is any politian or policeman. End of .

Yes I would, I'd bet my life on it.

[flowwolf]

What question is that?

You're bringing up incidents completely irrelevant to the standing debate, end of story.

How on earth can two incidents relating to deaths of supporters at football matches where both sets of fans where in standing areas be " irrelevent " to this thread ? God you are dim.

Edited 15 January 2013 by flowwolf

[The Year Of The Fox]

Well the authorities are not going to get a slating like they did at hillsborough ever again. Now that is being realistic. Would you put your name up saying safe standing would never lead to that tragedy again ? no and neither is any politcian or policeman. End of .

I would. Because it can't!

[The Year Of The Fox]

How on earth can two incidents relating to deaths of supporters at football matches where both sets of fans where in standing areas be " irrelevent " to this thread ? God you are dim.

People die in car crashes, but they don't ban cars.

My point is standing didn't kill anyone, other circumstances surrounding it did

[Bilo]

How on earth can two incidents relating to deaths of supporters at football matches where both sets of fans where in standing areas be " irrelevent " to this thread ? God you are dim.

They happened in terraced areas, not safe standing areas. The way in which these two stands were designed and policed is so far removed from what is seen in Germany and being proposed here you have to see them as scarcely relevant to the debate.

It's rather like labelling modern jet travel unsafe because of the BOAC air crash of 1954.

The two are massively different.

[Kitchandro]

How on earth can two incidents relating to deaths of supporters at football matches where both sets of fans where in standing areas be " irrelevent " to this thread ? God you are dim.

People have died in many many different places and situations throughout history. That does not mean that every thing in that place or situation is unsafe. Only certain things need to be unsafe for tragedies to happen.

In those instances, evidence, first hand accounts and general common sense (which you obviously have little of) tell us that people standing up was not one of those things.

Edited 15 January 2013 by Kitchandro

[1964FOX]

As for the superintendant who was just visiting, he was giving you lip service. He is has more intelligence ( that's why he is as superintendant) than you, and believe me there is nothing on the police agenda that would possibly support standing at any ground ever again after Hillsborough.

This is not true, I know him personally and he does support it and has raised it at the national football commanders meeting with a view to convincing others of the benefits. He is not the type to give lip service, if he was against it he would have said. Clearly due to his position he has to do everything through the appropriate channels and report his findings factually to enable a chance for change.

[flowwolf]

Yes I would, I'd bet my life on it.

Good job you don't have a say in it then.

[flowwolf]

Well it has been a good debate and I wish you all well in your endevours to get safe standing back in football. You are all clearly passionate about this subject and put up some very good arguments for it. I learned a lot ta