Guest Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20083249 What a joke. Before this test the want to be teacher will already have picked up a degree from a British University. How can anyone get a degree from a British University if their English and Maths skills are not of a decent standard? The British Education system and in particular the degree system has been going t down hill for a number of years.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 How can anyone get a degree from a British University if their English and Maths skills are not of a decent standard? Easily. Half the people I knew at Uni were morons.
Rincewind Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Is English and Maths a requirement for entry to all universities? What if you are doing socialology or a subject that does not involve maths? History? I would have thought they would bea requirement but I have never got that far in my education. I am sure it used to be anyway. I thought there was a shortage of teachers?
Jon the Hat Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 The harder they make it the better. Seems to me that from what I have seen an heard from the teachers on here that the problem is about retaining teachers, and the thing which is hardest to deal with is the lack of discipline so many kids seem to bring to school these days.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 The harder they make it the better. Seems to me that from what I have seen an heard from the teachers on here that the problem is about retaining teachers, and the thing which is hardest to deal with is the lack of discipline so many kids seem to bring to school these days Also attracting the best graduates in the first place. A significant minority of the people I know who went into teaching were the definition of mediocre and just did so because it was the only way they could see themselves making a decent living - not because they saw it as a vocation or thought they'd be particularly good at it. It shouldn't be an option for these types of people so the entry requirements should definitely be more stringent. Obviously they will oppose this idea though. The teaching unions have opposed every reform since time began.
Guesty Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 I worked with a lot of teachers a TA; some were extremely clever and knew there subject inside out but had trouble simplifying it to the children. Whereas some of the teachers who maybe wern't as clever were much better teachers because they could simplify it in a fun way in which the kids understood - which I think is the true art of teaching. Like others have said classroom discipline is a problem for newly qualified teachers; they have to spend most of their time in a classfull of 30 dealing with 2 troublesome pupils who shouldn't be in mainstream education. The bureaucracy is what put me off from going into it as a profession - where I worked it seemed management were more happy throwing teachers under the bus and and covering their own asses than actually admitting there was a problem and sorting it. It seemed you only got any where if you kissed management's ass and then when you got there you expected the same in return. It wasn't what you knew, but who you knew. I'm not saying it's the same everywhere though, maybe my school was unique. It is suprising that after having a degree you would need tests in basic Maths and English. Think it says more about the University education system. You do get subjects like Woodwork, Home Ec, Ceramics, P.E. for example though where English and Maths might not be tested as much though.
AoWW Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Completely agree with the introduction of these new tests. I know many, many teachers who have fairly shocking basic English and Maths skills and, regardless of the subject they teach, I do think more rigorous testing should be in place to assure all teachers have a reasonably high standard of general education. And, Jon, whilst I agree that poor pupil behaviour is what drives some away from the profession, far more leave due to the endless bureaucracy, mountains of unnecessary paperwork and successive governments who meddle and refuse to let teachers get on and teach!
MooseBreath Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 The bureaucracy is what put me off from going into it as a profession - where I worked it seemed management were more happy throwing teachers under the bus and and covering their own asses than actually admitting there was a problem and sorting it. It seemed you only got any where if you kissed management's ass and then when you got there you expected the same in return. I'm not saying it's the same everywhere though, maybe my school was unique. Sounds like almost every profession in every industry
Daggers Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Sounds like almost every profession in every industry What bureaucracy do you have to deal with? The 'How to clean the fryer' training leaflet?
Bellend Sebastian Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 When I was finishing my degree the university careers adviser asked me if I wanted to be a teacher, and when I said 'no' the appointment effectively ended there. In some ways I wish I'd been more open minded, because I think that I would be brilliant at it
mancunianfox Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 I work in university admissions and these tests have existed for years, they are the QTS skills tests. The only difference is that they now have to do them before getting on to a teacher training course whereas before they did them while they were doing their teacher training. Either way you weren't getting QTS until you passed them. It is better them doing them before because you used to get people doing them up to 15-20 times and still failing them! You would be very surprised how many graduates don't have a GCSE grade C in English and Maths as it just isn't a requirement for a lot of university courses who only care about the level 3 (A level) qualifications.
Daggers Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Most under-Grads are shockingly bad at spelling, punctuation and grammar. Plus, if you show them a quadratic they'll collapse with palpitations. University is no longer the challenge that it used to be, they are just machines for the State rolling out the bland and ineffectual.
MooseBreath Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 What bureaucracy do you have to deal with? The 'How to clean the fryer' training leaflet? Yeah, it's a tricky one because we got the leaflets from your printing company, and the picture instructions show a man half dressed in latex bent over the fryer while another man dressed in leathers inserts the handle end of a frying pan into his rectum, which we reckon isn't the best way to behave in a kitchen.
mancunianfox Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Most under-Grads are shockingly bad at spelling, punctuation and grammar. Plus, if you show them a quadratic they'll collapse with palpitations. University is no longer the challenge that it used to be, they are just machines for the State rolling out the bland and ineffectual. Depends. First class degrees are still an achievement, especially if you do it at a good institution in a decent subject. The problem has been so many going to uni and doing degrees in subjects that don't lead to a career or they won't use. A degree is still valuable and the country badly needs talent in certain areas...however a lot of people go to uni more for the experience nowadays.
ADK Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Maybe a piece of paper with a letter on it isn't a very good way of judging a persons capability? Most teachers are shockingly bad at teaching regardless of whether they speak proper english or can add up.
AoWW Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 I work in university admissions and these tests have existed for years, they are the QTS skills tests. The only difference is that they now have to do them before getting on to a teacher training course whereas before they did them while they were doing their teacher training. Either way you weren't getting QTS until you passed them. It is better them doing them before because you used to get people doing them up to 15-20 times and still failing them! You would be very surprised how many graduates don't have a GCSE grade C in English and Maths as it just isn't a requirement for a lot of university courses who only care about the level 3 (A level) qualifications. Did you read the article? Yes, QTS tests have been in place for years but the proposed new tests will be more challenging than the existing tests so the 'only difference' isn't just down to the timing. Candidates will also only be able to take the new tests 3 times - they then can't resit them until a 2 year period has passed.
Guest MattP Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 I drink with two teachers and whilst being great guys, they really are not the brightest. Good idea. Hopefully the start of turning the position back into one of respect rather than something out of the Inbetweeners.
ADK Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 They need to pay them more then imo. At least for teachers in sciences and maths.
Guest Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Every student who wants to go to university should sit English and Maths and General knowledge tests as a REQUIREMENT to do any degree. It's ridiculous that we give degrees away to people who can't Read/Write/do basic maths. It doesn't matter if your degree is a specialist degree or not ( and let's face it most bachelor degrees are not specialist really). All teachers should have a rounded and high level of Education and then we taught how to teach. They should not qualify wthout being able to teach to the sector that they are going to teach to.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Depends. First class degrees are still an achievement, especially if you do it at a good institution in a decent subject. The problem has been so many going to uni and doing degrees in subjects that don't lead to a career or they won't use. A degree is still valuable and the country badly needs talent in certain areas...however a lot of people go to uni more for the experience nowadays. The fact that I came out without any additional skills, and derived nothing from the experience whatsoever, I believe is testament to the strength of my will and a sure sign of my employability
notnow john Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 It's all very well being sniffy about the standard of graduates but I was talking to one yesterday . He reckoned his degree was invaluable to securing employment. Then he asked me if I wanted fries with my happy meal.
Guest Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 It's all very well being sniffy about the standard of graduates but I was talking to one yesterday . He reckoned his degree was invaluable to securing employment. Then he asked me if I wanted fries with my happy meal. So you've met Moosebreath.
MooseBreath Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 So you've met Moosebreath. Daggers will be so proud of you when he reads this. You're gonna get treated to an extra hard whipping tonight.
Guest Posted 26 October 2012 Posted 26 October 2012 Daggers will be so proud of you when he reads this. You're gonna get treated to an extra hard whipping tonight. Is everyone who disagrees with you automatically a homosexual with sado-masochistic tendancies then? Your obsession with homosexual sado-masochism says more about you than your racist rants.
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