Britain today

[Rincewind]

The flat in north London where Joyce Vincent's body was discovered after she had been dead for almost three years. Photograph: Sean Smith for the Guardian

She was known as the "orange squash girl" because, apparently, she didn't drink alcohol, or take drugs. She was described by those that knew her as being always well turned out. She had 240 friends on Facebook. Her name was Michelle Conroy, a 21-year-old who was sleeping rough in Exeter. She died from injuries sustained after a tree fell on to her tent at the height of the recent storms.

Last year I finished making a film about Joyce Vincent, a woman who died in her London flat in 2003 and was only discovered, surrounded by Christmas presents, nearly three years later. Joyce, 38 when she died of unknown causes, was described by those who knew her as beautiful and always immaculately presented. Just as she didn't fit the popular profile of somebody that could become forgotten, Michelle didn't fit the perceived stereotype of a homeless person.

This disjunction between perception and reality underlines how our assumptions about people come too easily and often aren't very useful. Michelle's identity was as complex as all identities are, as homelessness itself is – and the reasons for it.

Both her and Joyce's outcomes are emblematic of a kind of social isolation linked to housing, or the lack of it. Joyce was given sole tenancy of a housing association flat after residing in a domestic violence unit, and subsequently was seemingly forgotten by local authorities, while her friends and family did not know where she was. Michelle had a boyfriend and was part of a homeless community, a network of people that provided her with a social context. She was spared total isolation, as Joyce was not. However brutal Michelle's existence might have been, she was surrounded by people who knew she was there.

Nevertheless, talking to the Exeter Express and Echo, Canon Anna Norman-Walker, the diocesan missioner at Exeter Cathedral, described Michelle as "a lonely soul, with a sad, broken childhood who couldn't sustain an independent life". What opportunities were there for Michelle? She had survived at times by "sofa surfing", something Joyce had done for a while: the invisible homeless person staying with friends when they can, maintaining human connections and temporary shelter. It's an unstable life that I have experienced. I know how easy it is to become dislodged from and outside of so-called normal society.

Exeter has two hostels, which people have to register for, but no overnight drop-in shelters, which are crucial for people who may not be able to seamlessly organise and manage their lives. While the ideal might first appear to be to find long-term housing solutions, perhaps people aren't always ready to disappear permanently behind closed doors, into unsupported, often socially cut-off living.

In response to my film many people have written to me about their struggles with social isolation and those of people they know. At the heart of these stories is a sense of dislocation; there are many examples of people feeling too proud to seek help, or struggling to locate assistance even if they are moved to search for it. People have the right to cut themselves off from society, to live lives that are off the grid, but for those that are at risk there must be more resources to try to prevent unneeded suffering. There is a vital need for more options for homeless people, including more drop-in shelters and hostels that don't require registration. And, if people are eventually suitably housed, there must be greater support as they get to grips with independent living.

Like Joyce, but for different reasons, Michelle was a vulnerable woman who deserved better. While it seems there is increasing talk in our society of entrepreneurship and individuals needing to help themselves, we are at a point where further cuts to social welfare and care are looming, and the reality is that not everybody has the resources, financial or psychological, to help themselves.

That Michelle was a "lonely soul" raises powerful emotions. Although Joyce died alone I have never known if she was lonely, just as I don't know if Michelle was lonely. But I am certain of this: Joyce Vincent and Michelle Conroy were marginalised and socially isolated by their housing conditions – and that wasn't their own doing.

[purpleronnie]

It happens everywhere...not matter where you live, its sad but a lot of things are.

[MooseBreath]

If people want to cut themselves off from society to the point where they don't even want to collect their free flat and spending money from our generous welfare system then there's not a lot you can do.

[Rincewind]

(Purpleronnie) True but Britain is supposed to be a civilised nation and as shown in many threads on here there are those that choose to ignore the plight of others and have perceptions that suit their NIMBY attitude.

[Rincewind]

For Moosebreath as it seems he missed this part when reading the article.

Like Joyce, but for different reasons, Michelle was a vulnerable woman who deserved better. While it seems there is increasing talk in our society of entrepreneurship and individuals needing to help themselves, we are at a point where further cuts to social welfare and care are looming, and the reality is that not everybody has the resources, financial or psychological, to help themselves.

[MooseBreath]

Aren't you getting a pay rise soon? I assume you'll be donating all of it to charity since you don't need it?

[Jon the Hat]

(Purpleronnie) True but Britain is supposed to be a civilised nation and as shown in many threads on here there are those that choose to ignore the plight of others and have perceptions that suit their NIMBY attitude.

Why are you unable (unwilling?) to see that not wanting to spend the country into oblivion on welfare and not wanting to see tax hikes for the better off to try and pay for it is not the same as ignoring the plight of others. You seem so to have very one dimensional view of this that assumes more money must be the solution.

[AoWW]

I swear I can hear violins playing quietly in the background each time I read one of Rincewind's posts.

[purpleronnie]

(Purpleronnie) True but Britain is supposed to be a civilised nation and as shown in many threads on here there are those that choose to ignore the plight of others and have perceptions that suit their NIMBY attitude.

I understand, but it also happens in any civilised nation, just because these things happen I don't think it becomes uncivilised.

[Zingari]

I swear I can hear violins playing quietly in the background each time I read one of Rincewind's posts.

are you sure it's not your stomach rumbling ?

[Jon the Hat]

I swear I can hear violins playing quietly in the background each time I read one of Rincewind's posts.

I see him struggling to walk with the weight of the GIANT CHIP on his shoulder.

[AoWW]

are you sure it's not your stomach rumbling ?

My stomach's nowhere near that melodic!

[Zingari]

My stomach's nowhere near that melodic!

So you're no Le Pétomane then

[ithuriel]

Some poeple are just socially awkward, they do not know how to make friends easily and yet can be very nice poeple.

Then again modern times are quite strange with social communication, peeps have more ability to communicate with others by using texting or jumping on the PC but have perhaps far less human interaction and are thus more lonely.

When i was a kid i noticed that quite often neighbours would chat to each other over the garden fence, these days i see far less of that.

Not that i can talk, i was always quite shy and a bit of a loner, which is why i like going down the football because i can just start up a conversation with strangers about a common love of LCFC.

When ever i walk past someone living rough on the street i always wonder what their story is, why they are there?

Back when i did security the guy who owned the firm was ex-army and did a bit of merc work after that, he often used to give the true homeless peeps a quid, working security in town you soon got to know who the scammers were.

There was one guy who was homeless and used to drink a lot, he lost his wife and his life and mind disintergrated.

Felt sorry for the poor sod seeing him wandering around town every so often looking a right state back in the 90s.

[Rincewind]

All homeless people are not like Ian Beale was portrayed in Eastenders. That was a typically stereotype to please the viewers.

I have learnt a lot since being unemployed about the homeless. I am not advocating throwing money needlessly just trying to dispell some myths and raise awareness but it is hard work with some. Perhaps I should give up as I am on my own.

[The People's Hero]

All homeless people are not like Ian Beale was portrayed in Eastenders. That was a typically stereotype to please the viewers.

I have learnt a lot since being unemployed about the homeless. I am not advocating throwing money needlessly just trying to dispell some myths and raise awareness but it is hard work with some. Perhaps I should give up as I am on my own.

What are you on your own in saying? What point are you even making?

You seem to misunderstand what everyone else is saying and defending people than no one is attacking.

[AoWW]

All homeless people are not like Ian Beale was portrayed in Eastenders. That was a typically stereotype to please the viewers.

I have learnt a lot since being unemployed about the homeless. I am not advocating throwing money needlessly just trying to dispell some myths and raise awareness but it is hard work with some. Perhaps I should give up as I am on my own.

I think perhaps some of us just find it a little condescending that you seem to believe so fervently that we're all taken in by the sterotyping of the homeless. I, for one, have never believed that all homeless people are anything like Ian Beale.

[Rincewind]

The point that the article highlighted that the position some people are in is not always self inflicted and one of the first replies said something like 'Well if they want to be like that it's their own fault' Do you think the article was understood?

Anyway I just thought it a thought provoking article which gives out a different point of view. Nothing wrong with that.

[Rincewind]

I think perhaps some of us just find it a little condescending that you seem to believe so fervently that we're all taken in by the sterotyping of the homeless. I, for one, have never believed that all homeless people are anything like Ian Beale.

I'm sorry for that. I just get annoyed at the same comments being made when the subject comes up. I will try and let others post positive things before jumping in.

[1964FOX]

The woman being found three years after she died reminded me of a very sad case one of my colleagues dealt with many years ago. A wealthy man was due to go on a world cruise and had arranged to be away for over three months. He told all his friends and family and this was in the day where normal mail was the only way of communication other than landline telephone.

Consequently nobody worried about him until four months later when his family did become a little concerned.

My colleague had to do the address check and after arriving soon decided to put the door in to find the decomposing body o the man next to his suit case. Turns out e had a massive heart attack as he was about to leave his house and never mad it to the front door.

The scene was very disturbing but I will spare you the details.

[AoWW]

The point that the article highlighted that the position some people are in is not always self inflicted and one of the first replies said something like 'Well if they want to be like that it's their own fault' Do you think the article was understood?

Anyway I just thought it a thought provoking article which gives out a different point of view. Nothing wrong with that.

I assume you're talking about MooseBreath's post? If so, and much as it pains me to defend him (!), 'it's all their own fault' was not what he said at all.

[The People's Hero]

I'm sorry for that. I just get annoyed at the same comments being made when the subject comes up. I will try and let others post positive things before jumping in.

No one should be homeless, there should be support systems in place.

In many cases I believe, there are but that people choose not to use them.

It is difficult to help people who refuse to help themselves and seem not to want any help at all.

I'm not knowledgeable on this subject, but I can't ever recall anyone criticising the homeless? There but for the grace of errm not god, but similar, and all that.

[Rincewind]

It's not so much some refuse but many are too proud to ask for help or do not know where to go.

Our magazine is trying to recruit some of the homeless but it is difficult because a few are not fully committed due to alcohol and drug abuse. They put their name down then have a relapse. But we are getting through to some and that makes it worthwhile.

Being homeless can also be sleeping on friens sofas but without a permanent address employers are reluctant to give them jonbs even though they are well turned out and hard working. Things are improving and for those that are willing to help themselcves as well as being helped there is hope.

[Charl91]

It's not so much some refuse but many are too proud to ask for help or do not know where to go.

Our magazine is trying to recruit some of the homeless but it is difficult because a few are not fully committed due to alcohol and drug abuse. They put their name down then have a relapse. But we are getting through to some and that makes it worthwhile.

Being homeless can also be sleeping on friens sofas but without a permanent address employers are reluctant to give them jonbs even though they are well turned out and hard working. Things are improving and for those that are willing to help themselcves as well as being helped there is hope.

I'm sorry, but if they're that desperate, being "too proud to ask for help" is their own fault!

I was too proud to claim benefits when I needed them, but I have no-one to blame for that but myself.

[The People's Hero]

I'm sorry, but if they're that desperate, being "too proud to ask for help" is their own fault!

I was too proud to claim benefits when I needed them, but I have no-one to blame for that but myself.

Correct.