The UKIP threat is not about Europe

[davieG]

I recently took part in an online poll organised by Lord Ashcroft here are the results

http://lordashcroftp...t-about-europe/

Ps - I'm not a UKIP voter and I'm not considering voting for them or any other overly established entrenched political party although that could change if they change.

[Deucalion]

Very interesting reading which backs up my opinion of UKIP and their voters.

Basically UKIP can get away with being more overtly racist than the Tories can.

People vote for UKIP because it is like BNP Lite.

And while the BNP has an image of working class thugs, UKIP allows those who wouldn't wish to associate themselves with the working class to get in on the racist vote.

But what for the Tories now they have lost the 'Little Englanders'?

For the above reason...long live UKIP !!

[Deucalion]

Sorry DavieG, no one is biting !!

[Rincewind]

They are using the EU as a way of grabbing peoples attention whilst using it as a cover for some policies regarding immigration.

It gathers in the 'I'm not racist but...' voters.

[Guest MattP]

They are using the EU as a way of grabbing peoples attention whilst using it as a cover for some policies regarding immigration.

It gathers in the 'I'm not racist but...' voters.

So just dismiss millions of people's concerns over the EU and our involvement in it in one ignorant uneducated sentence.

and some say UKIP are the bigots......

[lavrentis]

Very interesting reading which backs up my opinion of UKIP and their voters.

Basically UKIP can get away with being more overtly racist than the Tories can.

People vote for UKIP because it is like BNP Lite.

And while the BNP has an image of working class thugs, UKIP allows those who wouldn't wish to associate themselves with the working class to get in on the racist vote.

But what for the Tories now they have lost the 'Little Englanders'?

For the above reason...long live UKIP !!

...

[ADK]

The Tories will try any way to discredit UKIP because they fear losing votes to them in the next election. That said, i can't stand social coservatives.

[Kyle_Le_Don]

Intereeeesting

[Father Ted]

You cannot fault Farage and UKIP's stance on the EU. They are the only party that is interested and willing to do something about the situation, Conservatives are happy to let it pass and Labour are so Pro-EU it makes me sick. This country gives £30million a day to the EU yet people seem to just not give a toss about it. Time to leave the EU and leave everybody else to go tits up... if you haven't got the money then don't go around buying sports cars and big houses...

[Rincewind]

So just dismiss millions of people's concerns over the EU and our involvement in it in one ignorant uneducated sentence.

and some say UKIP are the bigots......

I am not dismissing them but I do not know enough to see advantages or disadvantages with EU. Many see one or the other or can be led to believe either way. Immigration is a no go subject for the PC sector. The EU is a topic a lot of the general public will not have the knowledge to make an informed decision and UKIP have used this to gain popularity rather than concentrate on other areas.

I am wary about what the impact would be of leaving the EU despite all its faults. I don't think objecting being told to straighten our bananas is a good enough reason.

[The Doctor]

You cannot fault Farage and UKIP's stance on the EU. They are the only party that is interested and willing to do something about the situation, Conservatives are happy to let it pass and Labour are so Pro-EU it makes me sick. This country gives £30million a day to the EU yet people seem to just not give a toss about it. Time to leave the EU and leave everybody else to go tits up... if you haven't got the money then don't go around buying sports cars and big houses...

Firstly, I assume you can back that figure up?

Secondly - in terms of EU spending, the UK gets about 7.5bn per year, which would be £20.5m a day being received.

So if you change that into a yearly spending - gives £10.95bn, receives £7.5bn back - we spend about £3.45bn a year on the EU. We spend 4 times that on police, and 10 times that on the military.

Ultimately, if UKIP think we ought to save money, they ought to look at reducing the jingoistic nonsense of the right, rather than just attacking the EU, quite often telling bare faced lies to help their agenda.

[Guest MattP]

Firstly, I assume you can back that figure up?

Secondly - in terms of EU spending, the UK gets about 7.5bn per year, which would be £20.5m a day being received.

So if you change that into a yearly spending - gives £10.95bn, receives £7.5bn back - we spend about £3.45bn a year on the EU. We spend 4 times that on police, and 10 times that on the military.

Ultimately, if UKIP think we ought to save money, they ought to look at reducing the jingoistic nonsense of the right, rather than just attacking the EU, quite often telling bare faced lies to help their agenda.

Where are you getting those figures from, it's mostly reported at around 13billion now with about 7.5 billion back.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2052433/Chart-How-does-Britain-pay-EU-does-back.html

[The Doctor]

Where are you getting those figures from, it's mostly reported at around 13billion now with about 7.5 billion back.

http://www.thisismon...-does-back.html

The figures Father Ted posted. £30m a day is £10.95bn a year.

[lavrentis]

[lavrentis]

Opening the door to the whole of Bulgaria is a very scary thought.

[ADK]

Opening the door to the whole of Bulgaria is a very scary thought.

I'm sure they won't all come to your house.

[bovril]

Ey up.

I'm a British national living and working in Bulgaria. I usually read this site for news and opinion on Leicester City. This'll be my first post.

Regarding the 'whole of Bulgaria', it's unlikely that many will actually move to Britain when the restrictions are lifted at the end of 2013. Emmigration from BG was greatest in the years following the fall of Communism. Since they joined the EU, emmigration has decreased. If they do leave, Bulgarians are more likely to go to Spain (friends and family there), Greece (closer) or Germany (better financial position and less Eurosceptic). Believe it or not, the average Bulgarian's dream life is not to scrub toilets in rainy London for 7 quid an hour. Which is a shame, since we need people to do this work and almost all of them will have had their education and welfare paid for by the Bulgarian state. I've taken much more from the UK than any immigrant has.

And as for why it's "scary" - I assume you're referring to the assassination attempt yesterday. Firstly, it was probably staged, secondly, gun violence is miniscule in BG compared to the US or even UK.

Bulgarians and Romanians are a convenient scapegoat for politicians incapable of running our country. Free your mind a little bit from the scaremongering right-wing press.

All the best.

[Rincewind]

Our government is pro-right wing (allegedly) and our news papers are pro-right wing. USA is worse though.

And it isn't £7ph for cleaners in Leicester. It's about £6. They would pay even less if they could.

[Webbo]

Ey up.

I'm a British national living and working in Bulgaria. I usually read this site for news and opinion on Leicester City. This'll be my first post.

Regarding the 'whole of Bulgaria', it's unlikely that many will actually move to Britain when the restrictions are lifted at the end of 2013. Emmigration from BG was greatest in the years following the fall of Communism. Since they joined the EU, emmigration has decreased. If they do leave, Bulgarians are more likely to go to Spain (friends and family there), Greece (closer) or Germany (better financial position and less Eurosceptic). Believe it or not, the average Bulgarian's dream life is not to scrub toilets in rainy London for 7 quid an hour. Which is a shame, since we need people to do this work and almost all of them will have had their education and welfare paid for by the Bulgarian state. I've taken much more from the UK than any immigrant has.

And as for why it's "scary" - I assume you're referring to the assassination attempt yesterday. Firstly, it was probably staged, secondly, gun violence is miniscule in BG compared to the US or even UK.

Bulgarians and Romanians are a convenient scapegoat for politicians incapable of running our country. Free your mind a little bit from the scaremongering right-wing press.

All the best.

Didn't they say that when the Poles and other Eastern Europeans were allowed in. The experts told us there'd be 14k maximum and yet 200k+ turned up.

[bovril]

I can't speak for Poland. Don't know how many were predicted to come and how many did in the end.

[Guest BlueBrett]

I am not dismissing them but I do not know enough to see advantages or disadvantages with EU. Many see one or the other or can be led to believe either way. Immigration is a no go subject for the PC sector. The EU is a topic a lot of the general public will not have the knowledge to make an informed decision and UKIP have used this to gain popularity rather than concentrate on other areas.

I am wary about what the impact would be of leaving the EU despite all its faults. I don't think objecting being told to straighten our bananas is a good enough reason.

They are not 'using' the issue of the EU for anything you dope. Their genuine beliefs about our relationship with Europe are their very raison d'etre.

As far as I can see nobody really knows what the economic implications of our withdrawal would be. So called experts will tell you it will be this and that but if the last few years have taught us anything surely it is that the 'experts' really don't know shit about shit. This said, I feel the whole debate at the moment is on completely the wrong track. The only factor worth considering is how we 'feel' about integration with Europe vs how we feel about greater autonomy. All the rest is smoke and mirrors and all the issues will sort themselves out in the medium term whichever decision we make.

It's also useful to think about it like this because it blows the 'it's too complicated for joe public' argument out of the water. Even simpletons like Rincewind will be able to join in (for better or worse).

[Rincewind]

OI! less of the simpleton mockery.

[BoneDog]

I heard that the EU wants a bigger army which will eventually make European nations' military forces obsolete. One day in the near future we will have a centralized EU government, EU police forces and EU military totally running the show in most of Europe.

We are now cutting British military numbers to their smallest size for a couple of hundred years.

I'm not a fan of that idea, it sounds too much like a takeover, and if UKIP are the ones for stopping it, then I might vote for them. There probably is no stopping it though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not a fan of a continent, nor a world, having a centralized government. I tell you, there's some pesky little group somewhere that wants all nations to give up their power, so that they can have their fingers, and their fingers only, in all the pies. The greedy shits.

[foz.foz]

I heard that the EU wants a bigger army which will eventually make European nations' military forces obsolete.

Didn't Hitler want one big Europe?? You'd think if they looked over history around the world, not many countries want to be part of a "bigger" country. Look at eastern block for an example.

[leicsmac]

Didn't Hitler want one big Europe?? You'd think if they looked over history around the world, not many countries want to be part of a "bigger" country. Look at eastern block for an example.

I agree that nation-states should maintain their autonomy as much as possible, but at the same time there are some issues that are simply too big for one country and need to be faced with the world acting with one agenda (eg. forthcoming energy generation crisis, dealing with possible overpopulation etc) rather than several. Or those issues may well end up causing a great deal of trouble.

At the moment, all of these big things are still being dealt with or looked in a divided way, which means they're not really being dealt with.