Player Recruitment Post-Sven

[indierich06]

I was going to post this in the 'what players do you want' thread, but I feel this deserves a thread of its own because I think the way that we will have to recruit players over the next couple of seasons

has been completely wrecked by what happened at this club under Sven Goran Erriksson. Let me make this clear now - this is not a Sven bashing thread, this more a criticism of the money men at the club who brought him here in the first place, promised him that war chest and let him spend more or less whatever he wanted while he was here.

So, let me start by saying that I think a lot of posters on this board are in agreement that the most pressing thing the club needs to do this summer is to get rid of the players on our books who are bang average, yet are paid an astronomical amount:

Beckford

Danns

Gallagher

Wellens

St Ledger

Konchesky

But the problem is that the disparity of wages between players coming in and players who are already on our books is bound to cause friction too. Myself, along with many others on this board, would obviously like us to keep players like Nugent and Schmeichel, but they're still on crazy Sven-era wages and if a player coming in is earning less than half of these players do, they're going to be pissed off and rightly so. Even players like Andy King and Jeff Schlupp were given inflated contracts under Sven and there's no going back from that now. I mean, would you be happy if you joined a company and one of the blokes on your team earned almost twice as much as you for doing a similar job?

But what can the club do? Ask these players to take a pay cut? No, and they obviously wouldn't take it. Pay the new players a similar wage to what the current high-earners are paid? No, not with FFP coming in.

The way we are going to be able to recruit players over the next couple of seasons has been irrevocably damaged by the financial mismanagement that went on during Sven's time at the club - and I'm not saying this is solely down to him, it's also down to the board and people at the club like Andrew Neville, who negotiated these contracts.

So how are we going to attract real, quality players to the club? We've lucked out under Pearson in that we've been able to bring in some young players who weren't on the radar of many clubs and won't have commanded massive wages, but they've all shown they have the potential to be very good at some stage - Knockaert, Drinkwater, James, De Laet, Keane, Marshall, Wood - but a lot of people have pointed out that we've lacked established, quality players during this season, experienced heads who would have helped the young lads push on. When we have signed experienced players, it's players we've had to take a chance on - some have paid off (Morgan) and some haven't (Whitbread) Well what if we have tried to get more experienced players in and they've taken one look at the contracts of similar 'experienced' players at the club and they've wanted the same? We can't dish out contracts like this anymore with the onset of FFP.

It's my opinion that we're right in the shit now in terms of who we can recruit, especially in terms of experienced, quality, championship players and this could affect our chances of getting out of the league in the next couple of seasons. Until the decks are cleared and Sven's signings - even the good ones - have left the club and we can re-organise our wage structure, it's my opinion that the club is going to be very limited as to who we can get in and perhaps if Pearson is sacked we're going to need someone who can be just as shrewd as him in the transfer market - he's made a few **** ups, no more so than a certain Jamie Vardy - but his successes outweigh his failures in the transfer department.

I know this is quite an essay, but I would be interested to hear everyones thoughts on this.

[cc_star]

All managers make **** ups in the transfer market, Fergie highlights that more than anyone, being a great manager whose signed some stinkers alongside the greats... I think he said once the best you can hope for is above 50%

Then look at Liverpool's new owners recruitment, utilising some American stats method (can't remember what it's called) to ensure all signings payoff & it's been disastrous across both King Kenny & Brendan Rodgers with players like £20m Jordan Henderson Henderson & £15m Joe Allen.

I think Pearson's success rate is remarkably good and it's notch in the 'pro column' for not sacking him.

Sven signings are roughly 50:50 pretty good to bang average, the problem being... the amount paid to recruit these players that Sven earmarked

The bad ones have gone, the 'problem' average ones remain and with the contracts they're on will no doubt need buying out of their contracts in order to get them off the books, the problem comes from the better players in Nugent, Schmeichel & contracts awarded to King & the extremely rough potential diamond Schlupp

Wage create all sorts of problems at a club, just look at QPR

Warnock did an ok job, Hughes tookover and also did an ok job but then there was a disastrous summer transfer period where he spent £25m on disclosed fees (much more on undisclosed) plus astronomical wages... how was that supposed to make everyone else feel and the team suffered as a result, then over-rated 'Arry took over did an ok job at the start as the dressing room problems were swept under the carpet with his arrival, but then the January transfer window opened up and he to spent £25m-ish on disclosed fees, more on undisclosed... plus some astronomical wages that wouldn't look out of place at Chelsea, Man City or Real Madrid and he's barely won a game since, even against other crap sides.

The recruitment since Sven left & NP arrived is what the club needs to remedy the situation, & it's the right way to run a club sustainably and still be in business in the future - but this job is only half done with an obvious change needed in midfield and some experience added to this 'young core' to help them improve, add resilience & consistency.

Uneven wages is a destructive force in a squad and you're right to highlight it

[Aus Fox]

Confused as you have Konchesky in both the most would want us to keep and get rid of part of your discussion. I stopped reading after that.

[indierich06]

Confused as you have Konchesky in both the most would want us to keep and get rid of part of your discussion. I stopped reading after that.

Edited it - it was a long post and I changed a few things in there after reading other threads and I should've given it a more thorough read through before I posted, reading some comments on here about Konchesky, I think it's quite clear that a lot would like him gone and I think that for what he is paid, we could do better.

[davieG]

It certainly a problem but....

I'm pretty sure there's a wide disparity of wages paid to players at better clubs than us albeit starting at a much higher level and it was the same where ever I've worked.

Managing a team of engineers working on the same project where the software engineers were paid significantly more than the electronic and engineers who in turn were paid more than the mechanical design engineers. all the SW engineers were on more than me as the manager.

Sometimes you have to accept that within a 'team' there maybe specialists with exceptional skills or particular experience that warrants them being paid a premium.

That's not to say it's the case with LCFC just that the disparity itself is not the problem it's whether it's justified. Sven and the board went for PL 'standard' players and paid the price and then exacerbated it by bringing others up to a similar level leaving Pearson with the task of managing it.

[Col city fan]

I was going to post this in the 'what players do you want' thread, but I feel this deserves a thread of its own because I think the way that we will have to recruit players over the next couple of seasons

has been completely wrecked by what happened at this club under Sven Goran Erriksson. Let me make this clear now - this is not a Sven bashing thread, this more a criticism of the money men at the club who brought him here in the first place, promised him that war chest and let him spend more or less whatever he wanted while he was here.

So, let me start by saying that I think a lot of posters on this board are in agreement that the most pressing thing the club needs to do this summer is to get rid of the players on our books who are bang average, yet are paid an astronomical amount:

Beckford

Danns

Gallagher

Wellens

St Ledger

Konchesky

But the problem is that the disparity of wages between players coming in and players who are already on our books is bound to cause friction too. Myself, along with many others on this board, would obviously like us to keep players like Nugent, Schmeichel and Konchesky, but they're still on crazy Sven-era wages and if a player coming in is earning less than half of these players do, they're going to be pissed off and rightly so. Even players like Andy King and Jeff Schlupp were given inflated contracts under Sven and there's no going back from that now. I mean, would you be happy if you joined a company and one of the blokes on your team earned almost twice as much as you for doing a similar job?

But what can the club do? Ask these players to take a pay cut? No, and they obviously wouldn't take it. Pay the new players a similar wage to what the current high-earners are paid? No, not with FFP coming in.

The way we are going to be able to recruit players over the next couple of seasons has been irrevocably damaged by the financial mismanagement that went on during Sven's time at the club - and I'm not saying this is solely down to him, it's also down to the board and people at the club like Andrew Neville, who negotiated these contracts.

So how are we going to attract real, quality players to the club? We've lucked out under Pearson in that we've been able to bring in some young players who weren't on the radar of many clubs and won't have commanded massive wages, but they've all shown they have the potential to be very good at some stage - Knockaert, Drinkwater, James, De Laet, Keane, Marshall, Wood - but a lot of people have pointed out that we've lacked established, quality players during this season, experienced heads who would have helped the young lads push on. When we have signed experienced players, it's players we've had to take a chance on - some have paid off (Morgan) and some haven't (Whitbread) Well what if we have tried to get more experienced players in and they've taken one look at the contracts of similar 'experienced' players at the club and they've wanted the same? We can't dish out contracts like this anymore with the onset of FFP.

It's my opinion that we're right in the shit now in terms of who we can recruit, especially in terms of experienced, quality, championship players and this could affect our chances of getting out of the league in the next couple of seasons. Until the decks are cleared and Sven's signings - even the good ones - have left the club and we can re-organise our wage structure, it's my opinion that the club is going to be very limited as to who we can get in and perhaps if Pearson is sacked we're going to need someone who can be just as shrewd as him in the transfer market - he's made a few **** ups, no more so than a certain Jamie Vardy - but his successes outweigh his failures in the transfer department.

I know this is quite an essay, but I would be interested to hear everyones thoughts on this.

One of, if not the best posts ive read on here in recent times Rich.

IMO you are absolutely spot on and I don't think there are any easy answers to this one.

What seems clear to me is that the Board hired Sven for the publicity... A big name to get the club back on the map. And also lavished him with an almost open cheque book to get the club promoted at the first attempt.

When it was clear that they'd 'made a monster' so to speak, I think they panicked and got in Pearson to take the club up, feeling that we still had the calibre of players to do so, but the wrong man in Sven.

As I've said before, this calamitous error will live with the club for many years (eg. Beckford was signed on a four year contract) and renders the job of ANY manager we may have at the club that much harder.

It would appear that wheeling and dealing will be the order of the day for some time.. Somehow shedding the big paid players, whilst signing others that come with a lesser transfer fee and command less wages.

I guess this shows actually that Pearson has not done a bad job, given the circumstances in which he took over.

Super post Rich and you remain one of my favourite posters on the forum.

[indierich06]

One of, if not the best posts ive read on here in recent times Rich.

IMO you are absolutely spot on and I don't think there are any easy answers to this one.

What seems clear to me is that the Board hired Sven for the publicity... A big name to get the club back on the map. And also lavished him with an almost open cheque book to get the club promoted at the first attempt.

When it was clear that they'd 'made a monster' so to speak, I think they panicked and got in Pearson to take the club up, feeling that we still had the calibre of players to do so, but the wrong man in Sven.

As I've said before, this calamitous error will live with the club for many years (eg. Beckford was signed on a four year contract) and renders the job of ANY manager we may have at the club that much harder.

It would appear that wheeling and dealing will be the order of the day for some time.. Somehow shedding the big paid players, whilst signing others that come with a lesser transfer fee and command less wages.

I guess this shows actually that Pearson has not done a bad job, given the circumstances in which he took over.

Super post Rich and you remain one of my favourite posters on the forum.

Cheers Col - while we might not always agree on everything, I still think you've got a lot of good things to say too. While I was typing that out, it just about made my head explode. Not sure there are any easy fixes now, and while Pearson has done a fairly good job in some difficult circumstances, it's still not been good enough really. But who's going to come in and change things up? It's going to be nearly impossible to shift these high earners on our books and the quality players we do have on the books at the moment are going to become more and more disillusioned as they see players like Beckford and Danns earning twice as much as them for doing next to nothing for the club. I don't think we could even pay off contracts early for some of the players and just get rid of them, because that would surely add debt to the club and with FFP coming in, that's a big no-no.

I just get the really depressing feeling that we're going to be feeling the effects of that Sven season for a while now and we're going to be stuck in transition again for the foreseeable future.

[indierich06]

It certainly a problem but....

I'm pretty sure there's a wide disparity of wages paid to players at better clubs than us albeit starting at a much higher level and it was the same where ever I've worked.

Managing a team of engineers working on the same project where the software engineers were paid significantly more than the electronic and engineers who in turn were paid more than the mechanical design engineers. all the SW engineers were on more than me as the manager.

Sometimes you have to accept that within a 'team' there maybe specialists with exceptional skills or particular experience that warrants them being paid a premium.

That's not to say it's the case with LCFC just that the disparity itself is not the problem it's whether it's justified. Sven and the board went for PL 'standard' players and paid the price and then exacerbated it by bringing others up to a similar level leaving Pearson with the task of managing it.

Agreed, I don't think the disparity is the problem per se, it's just that it's not justified. Kasper can probably get away with it, because there's no-one competing in his position, but Chris Wood must be a bit aggrieved that Beckford is getting paid considerably more than him for doing **** all for Leicester City and he must feel that he's at least on a par with Dave Nugent. Wes Morgan must be wondering why Sean St Ledger gets paid so much more than him when Morgan is the captain and clearly more valuable to the team.

I think we must be the only team in the country where the wage structure is completely skewed like this - the better players, on the whole, are on less and the players who are surplus to requirements are the ones earning mega money.

[WhispyWizard]

I would have thought that players Pearson would like to keep (when he arrived) would have had their contracts renegotiated, im sure that some players like Konchesky would take a paycut if they were told they would be playing every week. Nugent and Schmeichel deserve their wages, but maybe they took a cut, who knows?

Players that currently are out on loan i would assume were told their actual weekly wage value and said "no chance" to having it lowered.

I have no doubts greedy agents will get involved with some of these Sven signings as they are coming to the end of their contracts and i doubt we will offer the best wages. This is why i think we will lose Schmeichel at the end of his contract.

Personally i think its good for the players coming in seeing players like Beckford not making it into the team, as it shows Pearson picks the team on performance, and not reputation, so incoming players cannot demand as much as Beckford/Danns are on.

[davieG]

Agreed, I don't think the disparity is the problem per se, it's just that it's not justified. Kasper can probably get away with it, because there's no-one competing in his position, but Chris Wood must be a bit aggrieved that Beckford is getting paid considerably more than him for doing **** all for Leicester City and he must feel that he's at least on a par with Dave Nugent. Wes Morgan must be wondering why Sean St Ledger gets paid so much more than him when Morgan is the captain and clearly more valuable to the team.

I think we must be the only team in the country where the wage structure is completely skewed like this - the better players, on the whole, are on less and the players who are surplus to requirements are the ones earning mega money.

But did they and their agents know this before they signed their contracts, I'd be amazed if they didn't or at least suspect it from the same sources we get our info, which is of course speculation. If they did then they should accept it and it certainly shouldn't affect their performances.

For me that is not even the problem, like you say and i've said many a time it's getting them to leave, people keep posting lists of players that want rid of but it's simply not that easy or at least not without significant costs.

But then if it's costing us to have them out on loan we may as well bite the bullet and pay the cost to get rid of them. With FFP it's the price we'll have to pay. It's a shame the club can't be more open about this as it may have reduced some of the pressure and antagonism on/towards Pearson - always assuming this is the case and our speculation has a big element of truth to it.

[Col city fan]

Agreed, I don't think the disparity is the problem per se, it's just that it's not justified. Kasper can probably get away with it, because there's no-one competing in his position, but Chris Wood must be a bit aggrieved that Beckford is getting paid considerably more than him for doing **** all for Leicester City and he must feel that he's at least on a par with Dave Nugent. Wes Morgan must be wondering why Sean St Ledger gets paid so much more than him when Morgan is the captain and clearly more valuable to the team.

I think we must be the only team in the country where the wage structure is completely skewed like this - the better players, on the whole, are on less and the players who are surplus to requirements are the ones earning mega money.

Completely right Rich

It's about 'value for money'... Actually that's how I see FFP really.

The other players would look at Kasper and probably think 'he's worth what he's earning'. Then they'd look at Beckford and Danns, who aren't even in the squad and think 'what the Fook is he on that money for'?

THERE'S the problem IMO.

I think it even comes across to the fans? I know it does to me. I look at Morgan and think 'what is he on? 15k per week... He's worth every penny'. Then I look at Konch and think '20-25 k per week? No bloody way.....'

Value for money....

Hope that makes sense.

[kingfox]

Sven took a huge gamble and it backfired, he surely knew it wasn't a guarantee that we would get promotion, and it could all blow up in his face. Indeed this was the case, even though Pearson has done some negative things since he returned, his attempts of trying to get rid of the higher paid players, and recruiting younger players on lesser wages is a slow work in progress, but it is working and he has done a pretty good job in that department, despite some of his signings being poor like Whitbread and Vardy in particular.

He has tried his best, and like I said it is a work in progress. The question is if we do sell the players on higher wages, will that then free us up to get more players but on lesser wages, including some experienced players, some experienced players are out of contract this summer, are we capable of getting them? We need to get Beckford and Danns off our books asap in the Summer, have Huddersfield got the money to take a punt on these types of players, will the relegated sides pick one of them up, or will the likes of Bournemouth and Blackburn two teams who have money take a chance on them.

I wouldn't want the likes of Kasper to leave, he has been our best goalkeeper probably since Tim Flowers in my opinion; however thinking of the wages would moving him on to the Premier League actually be a good idea for the club, we certainly could pick up a goalkeeper who will cost less and maybe even be a free transfer, someone like Luke Steele perhaps.

We definitely need new players, but it isn't going to be easy, we could see a bunch of young players coming in again, but hopefully we can sell Beckford and Danns in particular, and maybe release others like Vardy, Whitbread, Futacs, Wellens and Gallagher.

[muzzy1981]

Fair point, it will be a challenge! I could see us clearing out, Danns, Beckford, Vardy, Futacs, Wellens, SSL, Gally. These players need to be replaced with older experienced players, so we have the right blend.

But who makes those changes and how much money they are given are the million dollar questions.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Good OP. We are seen as the big spenders. Players coming here and their clubs will expect us to pay over the odds. The truth is starkly different.

[_Fatboyslow_]

Very interesting and I don't think there are many who would disagree with your OP, it also makes a good case to keep NFP

[Dan LCFC]

I 100% agree with every word.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that Sven's era still does its damage today.

Under Pearson the first time we were in a far better position to manage, far more squad parity, we had a similar set of players to the ones he's brought in now but we didn't have any serious mess from before left over.

Under Sven and partly Sousa, this was totally wrecked. Everything about it just wrecked, in came players on whatever money they wanted pretty much.

The OP basically lists everything, but it's a big reason I'm more sympathetic towards Pearson. I still think even to this day we're recovering from Sven's reign. It wasn't "poor", it was an absolute disaster covered up by the fact he's a big name and by the fact he did improve us at the end of the 2010/11 season. An absolute financial mess.

Pearson's dropping a fair few clangers, but I think other than Vardy and maybe Whitbread, he's operated very well in the transfer window again.

Just cannot ever for the life of me see how certain fans want to keep players like Danns. Seriously?

[Dan LCFC]

Completely right Rich

It's about 'value for money'... Actually that's how I see FFP really.

The other players would look at Kasper and probably think 'he's worth what he's earning'. Then they'd look at Beckford and Danns, who aren't even in the squad and think 'what the Fook is he on that money for'?

THERE'S the problem IMO.

I think it even comes across to the fans? I know it does to me. I look at Morgan and think 'what is he on? 15k per week... He's worth every penny'. Then I look at Konch and think '20-25 k per week? No bloody way.....'

Value for money....

Hope that makes sense.

Good post again. I think a lot of Pearson's signings represent good value for money. Vardy doesn't, that's easily his worst ever buy, £1mil for an out of his depth forward, very poor.

I imagine players like Schmeichel are on big money but he earns it. However Nugent I'm starting to seriously lose faith in, I've heard he's on silly money as well.

[Guest BlueBrett]

For all the damage Sven undoubtedly did, you have to admit that it was quite an exciting time to be a Leicester fan.

I also think very few of us are in a position to be overly critical. If I remember rightly, most of us rated most of the players he brought in at some point or other (with the exception of Ball, Johnson and Pantsil, all of whom we barely saw). It took us a good while to decide they were in fact overpriced, overpaid and over-hyped.

[Col city fan]

Good post again. I think a lot of Pearson's signings represent good value for money. Vardy doesn't, that's easily his worst ever buy, £1mil for an out of his depth forward, very poor.

I imagine players like Schmeichel are on big money but he earns it. However Nugent I'm starting to seriously lose faith in, I've heard he's on silly money as well.

Cheers Dan...

Don't lose your faith in Nugent though mate.

Remember he was our top league scorer last season and has a decent return this season.

He's a confidence player and if the team starts to turn things around, Nugent will once more start firing.

Take a glimpse at the league table of 'assists' in the Championship this season. It tells it's own story.

[Col city fan]

For all the damage Sven undoubtedly did, you have to admit that it was quite an exciting time to be a Leicester fan.

I also think very few of us are in a position to be overly critical. If I remember rightly, most of us rated most of the players he brought in at some point or other (with the exception of Ball, Johnson and Pantsil, all of whom we barely saw). It took us a good while to decide they were in fact overpriced, overpaid and over-hyped.

Spot on mate and very true.

Mills, Danns, Beckford were signed to a fanfare of appreciation on here, myself included. Except Beckford... I was unsure of him as soon as I heard we were signing him. And posted as such.

[Guest BlueBrett]

I even remember people claiming the likes of Bruma and Van Arnholt were destined to develop into world class players

[Dan LCFC]

Cheers Dan...

Don't lose your faith in Nugent though mate.

Remember he was our top league scorer last season and has a decent return this season.

He's a confidence player and if the team starts to turn things around, Nugent will once more start firing.

Take a glimpse at the league table of 'assists' in the Championship this season. It tells it's own story.

But it's just the money he's on. If there is honestly a similar standard player available then I'd try cashing in, I do like Nugent and he's been my favourite player for a lot of the last two years, but no goals in 15 games is absolutely awful and there hasn't even been signs it's ending. The closest he's got to goal was practically handing Birmingham one.

I even remember people claiming the likes of Bruma and Van Arnholt were destined to develop into world class players

Two defenders who couldn't defend.

Bruma did score for Hamburg the other week, in fairness.

They were beaten 9-2.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Totally agree with this thread and it's exactly why I've been saying for a while that the club is more likely to keep pearson than sack him, in the summer. I really think MON would be a mistake - here's achieved next to nothing since leaving us and Celtic and I think he's lost it.

However that doesn't mean Pearson won't be sacked after 10-15 games if things aren't going well.

[smudgerfox]

Very good posts which I agree with. The Pearson-out-Sousa in-followed-by-Sven era was catastrophic. We were building some solid foundations even if the team wasn't that inspiring and the new money could have been used to reinforce and improve a squad that had been good enough to get to the play offs. Instead we had a complete and ultimately fruitless change of playing style to the polar opposite of what went before, huge spending on loan players in a mad dash to get promoted followed by an equally mad summer spending spree on players who were largely mates of Sven or mates of mates of Sven. Most saw us as a lucrative meal ticket to the Premiership and even more money. When they realised it was going to be more difficult some cleared off, others mucked about and some just sulked and stunk the place out. A minority, Nugent, Schmeichel, St ledger, Konchesky, showed a modicum of professional commitment to LCFC. The disparity in wages will undoubtedly damage team spirit, especially if players like Danns and Beckford insist on staying at a club they obviously hate.

[Fez of Mahrez]

People who moan about St Ledger, Danns and Beckford going out on loan would do well to read this thread. It's not just footballing ability that has seen them leave, it's got to be partly down to wages and trying to shift them permanently.