England: end of an era

[Dan]

No it doesn't. Be willing to bet you they called up players from at least 10 different teams. They called up players from Liverpool Arsenal Manchester City and Chelsea for one (2 of which played regularly another of which scored in the final)

 

Their final winning side started only one non Barca/Madrid player (David Silva), two Chelsea players (Mata & Torres) + Pedro (Barcelona) came on.

 

For your info also, Italy's side had 6 Juventus starters.

[Corky]

Scholes refused to play for England during the peak of his ability so while his reasons were respectable (I'm sure a lot of it was not wanting to be part of the circus post 2006), he deserves no elevated status as an England player.

I would question Owen as well. He was a good striker in his day but will not go down as a legend for me.

 

40 goals in 89 caps? That's a pretty good record.

[Fox92]

Is the problem a lack of quality English players?

 

So, Manchester United won the top flight this year.

Best goalkeeper: Spanish

Best defender: Serbian

Best midfielder: English (probably go for Carrick?)

Best striker: Dutch.

 

Over in Spain, Barcelona won their top flight.

Best goalkeeper: Spanish

Best defender: Spanish

Best midfielder: Spanish

Best striker: Argentinian.

 

 

I always look for these comparisons. Problem lies with our youth systems, right from the very bottom, imo.

[Manwell Pablo]

Their final winning side started only one non Barca/Madrid player (David Silva), two Chelsea players (Mata & Torres) + Pedro (Barcelona) came on.

 

For your info also, Italy's side had 6 Juventus starters.

 

Side

 

He said squad, if you want to talk starting XI's different arguement with a different counter arguement.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

The England team of the last 15 years has done bugger all. We may have had some talented players but many were overrated or lost their form permanently after a few years. And I include Beckham and Lampard in that list. I don't see why it should be revered over the current young side who's latest major tournament performance (a quarter final) is no worse than any England team in the previous era.

 

I think people need to accept that that team was never as good as people made out. It certainly was never capable of winning a major tournament even at it's best and most players bottled it on the big stage to the extent where it struggled against crap teams.

 

I remember before the Germany game 3 years ago the MOTD studio were claiming that man for man we were better than the Germans. Even before the match started I knew this was the most laughable thing I'd ever heard.

 

I remember that as well and tbh I agreed with them.

 

Was pretty even between both teams.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

We completley lacked class,  and were totally outplayed by the Italians, Hodgson fair play to him got his tactics spot on and with a bit of luck managed to keep them out for 120 minutes. But we looked awful, and could of played until the sun came up without scoring a goal.

 

 

Really?

 

Ultra defensive negative tactics and playing for a penalty shoot out when we have the worst penalty shoot out record in international football?

A bunch of players who had the potential but achieved nothing. Wasting your potential is worse than having none in the first place.

 

Quarter-finals is a decent achievement surely?

I'm sick and tired of seeing the same players picked everytime.. What has the likes of Welbeck done this season? Why not give Lambert a go as he was the second top english goalscorer in the Prem.

 

Carroll pulls out of the squad.

 

No replacement will be called up.

 

It's like an exclusive members club with Roy Hodgson.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

Sad but true. We're so far behind the top sides in Europe it's embarrassing. We're more like Russia, Croatia, Turkey and Czech Republic rather than Italy, Spain, Germany etc... and that is absolutely unforgivable considering we're probably the most hooked nation on football in the continent.

 

I think it all stems down to being too old fashioned at grass roots level, too rigid in general, and the demands of the Premier League - which effectively leaves behind any youngster who doesn't hit the ground running.

 

Really?

 

Russia, Croatia, Turkey and Czech Republic all failed to qualify for the last World Cup.

 

Italy, Spain, Germany and France all qualified for the last World Cup.

 

We clearly are in the latter group.

[Manwell Pablo]

Really?

 

Ultra defensive negative tactics and playing for a penalty shoot out when we have the worst penalty shoot out record in international football?

 

Quarter-finals is a decent achievement surely?

 

Carroll pulls out of the squad.

 

No replacement will be called up.

 

It's like an exclusive members club with Roy Hodgson.

 

I think hopeing Gerrard or Rooney did something special was also part of his thinking and nicking it 1-0 was the desired outcome, but yes, gernally speaking taking a penalty shoot out against them was one of our better chances of knocking them out. They were a much better side than us.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

I think hopeing Gerrard or Rooney did something special was also part of his thinking and nicking it 1-0 was the desired outcome, but yes, gernally speaking taking a penalty shoot out against them was one of our better chances of knocking them out. They were a much better side than us.

 

Still embarrassing tactics from Hodgson.

 

You'd think we were some small nation at our first ever tournament or something.

[Manwell Pablo]

Still embarrassing tactics from Hodgson.

 

You'd think we were some small nation at our first ever tournament or something.

 

Well we're two points behind one going into the final straight of the 2014 World Cup Qualifiers so you can possible see where he's coming from.

 

It's not how big your country is it's the players you produce. We severly lack quality at the moment.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

Well we're two points behind one going into the final straight of the 2014 World Cup Qualifiers so you can possible see where he's coming from.

 

It's not how big your country is it's the players you produce. We severly lack quality at the moment.

 

That doesn't excuse negative tactics.

 

We should have had a go.

 

Croatia had a real go against Spain and were unlucky not to win.

[Manwell Pablo]

That doesn't excuse negative tactics.

 

We should have had a go.

 

Croatia had a real go against Spain and were unlucky not to win.

 

But they lost we didn't lose.

 

And the Croats have a decent side at the minute.

 

It's pretty hard to play attacking football with two extremly ineffective wingers, a duff striker who's managed one goal the entirity of this season and Rooney not turning up as usual. We'd of lost, possible quite heavily if Pirlo had had more space to exploit, he made us look god awful as it was.

[Stadt]

I don't understand the fixation with Beckham, he wasn't a world beater, granted he was good but definitely not world class.

[Captain...]

Side

He said squad, if you want to talk starting XI's different arguement with a different counter arguement.

I did say squad, but I meant first eleven, and that is not the only factor in success, and it could be counteracted by spending more time preparing and training and playing together, but the premier league takes priority and undermines every get together, so you often get players playing together with very little experience of their teammates.

[Manwell Pablo]

I did say squad, but I meant first eleven, and that is not the only factor in success, and it could be counteracted by spending more time preparing and training and playing together, but the premier league takes priority and undermines every get together, so you often get players playing together with very little experience of their teammates.

 

You know Brazil are the most succesful international team in history and their rarely have more than 3 players playing in the same league never mind the same team. And the conflicting schedules of those leagues make it hard to play and train together, not to mention that the Brazilians change their squad all the time and look at more players than any other team.

 

When they played us in 2002 the majoirity of team was made up of Arsenal Manu and Liverpool players bar a couple of exceptions. They had 11 players from 11 different clubs around Europe and South America and beat us.

 

Makes absloutley minimal difference.

 

It's how good your players are and how you set them out, Spain are good  because they have quality from front to back and the best two centre mids in the world. The team was made up of Barcelona and Real Madrid players when they were renound as bigger bottlers and under achievers as us.

[RonnieTodger]

Is the problem a lack of quality English players?

 

So, Manchester United won the top flight this year.

Best goalkeeper: Spanish

Best defender: Serbian

Best midfielder: English (probably go for Carrick?)

Best striker: Dutch.

 

Over in Spain, Barcelona won their top flight.

Best goalkeeper: Spanish

Best defender: Spanish

Best midfielder: Spanish

Best striker: Argentinian.

 

 

I always look for these comparisons. Problem lies with our youth systems, right from the very bottom, imo.

 

Don't mean to be pedantic, because I actually agree with what you've said.

I don't think Vidic is their best defender anymore though, he's not been the same since picking up these constant injuries, when he does play.

I'd actually say it's Ferdinand, based on this season. (Not that he can change England now)

[Captain...]

You know Brazil are the most succesful international team in history and their rarely have more than 3 players playing in the same league never mind the same team. And the conflicting schedules of those leagues make it hard to play and train together, not to mention that the Brazilians change their squad all the time and look at more players than any other team.

 

When they played us in 2002 the majoirity of team was made up of Arsenal Manu and Liverpool players bar a couple of exceptions. They had 11 players from 11 different clubs around Europe and South America and beat us.

 

Makes absloutley minimal difference.

 

It's how good your players are and how you set them out, Spain are good  because they have quality from front to back and the best two centre mids in the world. The team was made up of Barcelona and Real Madrid players when they were renound as bigger bottlers and under achievers as us.

 

Of course it is not the only factor in success, and there is no guarantee of success if all your players come from the same team, but it is certainly something that hinders the England team that most players haven't played together very often and often miss get togethers and friendly games to prioritise the premiership campaign, especially as English strengths are very much organisation and discipline, as opposed to Brazil who tend to be more of a flair team.

 

It shouldn't make a big difference, and can easily be countered by hard work off the pitch, but the players don't seem to want to do this, or are not allowed to by their parent club.

[Manwell Pablo]

Of course it is not the only factor in success, and there is no guarantee of success if all your players come from the same team, but it is certainly something that hinders the England team that most players haven't played together very often and often miss get togethers and friendly games to prioritise the premiership campaign, especially as English strengths are very much organisation and discipline, as opposed to Brazil who tend to be more of a flair team.

 

It shouldn't make a big difference, and can easily be countered by hard work off the pitch, but the players don't seem to want to do this, or are not allowed to by their parent club.

 

Now I don't abide that either, it doesn't seem to hinder the foriegn players playing the Premier League!