The Good News thread, local jobs, economy etc

[Rincewind]

Benefit claims among working tax payers have risen and account for the biggest amount of claims.

[The People's Hero]

Benefit claims among working tax payers have risen and account for the biggest amount of claims.

 

And what point are you making?

 

This is something of a problem for your outlook on life, since the workers have embraced the capitalist system, working for the man, taking the 'evil' pound and are effectively evil, rotten pawns of a great evil regime.

 

But yet they are also perfectly virtous, deserving of better, benefit claimants...

 

DOES NOT COMPUTE. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

[The People's Hero]

Right, I'm off, got some study to do to try to get a professional qualification. Study in my own time.. you know, trying to better myself, get better for myself and my family?

 

I realise this is an alien concept to some when I could just ask the State for a few more quid.

 

Can't be that I'm willing to work hard though - I must just be lucky. And evil. Exploiting the poor at every turn.

 

Toodaloo

 

ps could really do with an extra bedroom, would be thrilled to pay the bedroom tax equivalent to get one put on my house!

[leicsmac]

So where is it going?

 

 

The budget document 2013 is available for public consumption I believe.

 

Good question. That's why I asked it. Hopefully on health and education, foreign aid only where it is specifically needed and incentives to businesses to take on staff on a fair wage with fair hours and therefore reduce the benefit burden.

 

Is this Government going to get the big corporations to legally pay tax at the same rate as all the others to add a much-needed boost to the budget?

 

Of course its not that simple, there is a whole economy here which is subject to various pressures, largely free market but subject also to various internal and external pressures and controls. The labour market is just part of something much larger. If you want to debate this properly, then lets do it. If you want to hide behind an empty post pretending I see things in 'black and white' then fair enough, but I can assure you that I do not.

 

I'm glad you're doing fine, by the way. Its nothing personal, but please don't pretend I'm naive here.

 

Firstly you present a simplistic view of capitalism with the insinuation that it's the way things happen in this country. Now you say it's more complex. So which is it?

 

Ideally there would be a perfect meritocracy.

 

Those well paid jobs are there for anyone to apply for. If you don't match up to the selection criteria then who is to blame for that?

 

Another 'poor me' ?

 

Ideally there would, but there's not, and don't you think its right for people to be angry at the system because of that?

Right, I'm off, got some study to do to try to get a professional qualification. Study in my own time.. you know, trying to better myself, get better for myself and my family?

 

I realise this is an alien concept to some when I could just ask the State for a few more quid.

 

Can't be that I'm willing to work hard though - I must just be lucky. And evil. Exploiting the poor at every turn.

 

Toodaloo

 

ps could really do with an extra bedroom, would be thrilled to pay the bedroom tax equivalent to get one put on my house!

 

Have a good day.

 

Be secure in your smug, condescending superiority. 

Edited 24 August 2013 by leicsmac

[Rincewind]

What i am saying is that it is costing more now than before cuts came into place because more people are struggling so are claiming more.

[Zingari]

Of course its not that simple, there is a whole economy here which is subject to various pressures, largely free market but subject also to various internal and external pressures and controls. The labour market is just part of something much larger. If you want to debate this properly, then lets do it. If you want to hide behind an empty post pretending I see things in 'black and white' then fair enough, but I can assure you that I do not.

 

I'm glad you're doing fine, by the way. Its nothing personal, but please don't pretend I'm naive here.

i'm not pretending anything , i just know in a few years time your personal pendulum will swing again and you'll be arguing from a completely different perspective. 

 

Believe what you want to believe now , but try to remember what you unshakably believed a few years ago . Are they the same thing ? Do you not consider your beliefs and reasoning might change again ?

 

I'm not trying to belittle you  , but really have grown too weary to keep explaining this nowadays . 

[MooseBreath]

Yet again, you assume hard work = rewards. In the 'real world' (as many on the right seem intent on putting it) it's simply not the case. Not all the time anyway, and probably not most of the time.

Working hard alone might not get you anywhere. You need to work hard and smart, ie work hard at a career path where there are actually jobs available. For me part of "working hard" means putting thought into long term career planning as well as the daily chipping away at the grindstone.

Yet again, you assume hard work = rewards. In the 'real world' (as many on the right seem intent on putting it) it's simply not the case. Not all the time anyway, and probably not most of the time.

Working hard alone might not get you anywhere. You need to work hard and smart, ie work hard at a career path where there are actually jobs available. For me part of "working hard" means putting thought into long term career planning as well as the daily chipping away at the grindstone.

[Rincewind]

I thought I was agreeing with him and he was still arguing.

 

The problem is not a shortage of bigger houses TPH but a shortage for those wanting to downsize or having to because of having money taken off them despite councils knowing there are not enough properties and there being an huge waiting list. Where do you live? I can give you a link to the figures for properties available obtained through the FOI act.

[leicsmac]

Working hard alone might not get you anywhere. You need to work hard and smart, ie work hard at a career path where there are actually jobs available. For me part of "working hard" means putting thought into long term career planning as well as the daily chipping away at the grindstone.

 

 

This is true, though I've found no matter how much planning you do sometimes things just go fvcked and you have to change plans.

 

I've got a backup teaching career for instance to fall back on which I'm thinking of doing for a while again now. Hopefully in a year or two I'll be able to apply for jobs in the field I'm more qualified in with more success. 

 

I still believe that success in todays society is down to a fair amount of luck and knowing/being associated with the right names, as well as (possibly more so than) hard work and preparation. 

[Rincewind]

When worked in an hosiery warehouse it was my first joo. It was family owned the owner at the time being elderly. He died and it passed down to his twin sons. Little or no experience but i believed one had a degree in accountancy. Then one of their sons came along and the groomed him to take over despite not being the brightest. The twins both died at an earlyish age. 50's.The heir took over. as sort of a manager. If it hadn't been it being a family business he would not have been in that position. I doubt he would have been able to progress up the ladder I'm not saying he would have been at McDonalds or similar but I doubt he'd be thought of as managerial material without being an heir to a family business.

Another bloke when I worked there was a packer. Credit to him he was an hard worker when he needed to be but he was also what is known in some circles as an arse licker.

He watched for what was going on and the managers somehow got to hear what went on the shop floor (TBH the union rep could not be trusted all the time) He eventually was promoted to manager when his attitude towards others changed. Considering employees as inferior.

His eagerness to climb the ladder was his undoing. He was out one day visiting his sister, rushed back to his car to get back and collapsed with an heart attack. He was 60.

[Smudge]

 

I'm doing quite well actually , but anyone that genuinely believes that harder work = greater rewards , and those that are on higher pay actually earn it , are fookin deluded.

 

One thing's for sure, if you start with nothing, do nothing, you'll end up with nothing.

[Rincewind]

One thing's for sure, if you start with nothing, do nothing, you'll end up with nothing.

And if you piss on people on the way up you will smell the aroma of your success on the way down as you pass them.

[Webbo]

When worked in an hosiery warehouse it was my first joo. It was family owned the owner at the time being elderly. He died and it passed down to his twin sons. Little or no experience but i believed one had a degree in accountancy. Then one of their sons came along and the groomed him to take over despite not being the brightest. The twins both died at an earlyish age. 50's.The heir took over. as sort of a manager. If it hadn't been it being a family business he would not have been in that position. I doubt he would have been able to progress up the ladder I'm not saying he would have been at McDonalds or similar but I doubt he'd be thought of as managerial material without being an heir to a family business.

Another bloke when I worked there was a packer. Credit to him he was an hard worker when he needed to be but he was also what is known in some circles as an arse licker.

He watched for what was going on and the managers somehow got to hear what went on the shop floor (TBH the union rep could not be trusted all the time) He eventually was promoted to manager when his attitude towards others changed. Considering employees as inferior.

His eagerness to climb the ladder was his undoing. He was out one day visiting his sister, rushed back to his car to get back and collapsed with an heart attack. He was 60.

And the moral of the story is "if you work hard and are successful one day you'll die and serves you right".

[Zingari]

One thing's for sure, if you start with nothing, do nothing, you'll end up with nothing.

OK but it's just more simplistic nonsennse isn't really?

 

All I've tried to put across time and time again is that we all are nowhere near in control of our destinies that we like to believe .

 

I've said time and again that while I've done ok , a lot is down to good fortune and I'm not unaware of it.

Greater men have fallen from loftier perches than me. 

 

And I'm also well aware that at any moment my whole world could crash around me and I'm not deluded enough to think that I've made myself immune from the type of life of which Ken is spending so much energy trying to make us aware. We should be trying to understand more about this stuff IMO , not constantly disheartening him .

 

. 

 

Yes we can try to improve ourselves and I don't want  a world with no incentive  , but in the final reckoning much of our fate is  still very much in the lap of the gods.

 

Ken is doing his best to make us realise that we could all become victims for a host of different reasons , but he seems to be fighting sort sort of deluded arrogance among some posters that it can't happen to them or those that fall victim are all feckless layabouts .

 

We will turn into a very mean spirited nation, a very divided nation,  if we don't take great  care  

 

 

i hate sounding preachy like this and usually try to avoid it , but some of the arrogant comments are getting very tiresome.

 

 

 

Keep up the good work Ken 

[Rincewind]

And the moral of the story is "if you work hard and are successful one day you'll die and serves you right".

Sort of. By working hard as he though he put it before everything else even friendship, some people live to work others work to live.

As I was hinting at he never necessary worked his way up more like wormed it. Doing errands for the boss making them tea doing extra hours for no pay. He was loyal you may say and that's not a bad thing. He was born in a rough part of Leicester but if anyone asked if he remembered a person living on the street he grew up on he'd deny even living there.

I would not do that. Where I grew up is part of my life and It made me the person I am. I am proud of my roods.

Edited 24 August 2013 by Rincewind

[Webbo]

We all have to except responsibility for our own lives. If you choose to blame all your misfortunes on unseen forces who are spoiling your life for spite, if you accuse anyone who has a bit of success in their life as crooks and cheats, you've got to expect people to tell you you're speaking out of your backside.

 

Envy is mean spirited too.

[Webbo]

Sort of. By working hard as he though he put it before everything else even friendship, some people live to work others work to live.

By him working hard he kept you in a job. If he'd been unemployed and died at 60 you'd have blamed the heartless govt.

[Smudge]

 

OK but it's just more simplistic nonsennse isn't really?

 

All I've tried to put across time and time again is that we all are nowhere near in control of our destinies that we like to believe .

 

I've said time and again that while I've done ok , a lot is down to good fortune and I'm not unaware of it.

Greater men have fallen from loftier perches than me. 

 

And I'm also well aware that at any moment my whole world could crash around me and I'm not deluded enough to think that I've made myself immune from the type of life of which Ken is spending so much energy trying to make us aware. We should be trying to understand more about this stuff IMO , not constantly disheartening him .

 

. 

 

Yes we can try to improve ourselves and I don't want  a world with no incentive  , but in the final reckoning much of our fate is  still very much in the lap of the gods.

 

Ken is doing his best to make us realise that we could all become victims for a host of different reasons , but he seems to be fighting sort sort of deluded arrogance among some posters that it can't happen to them or those that fall victim are all feckless layabouts .

 

We will turn into a very mean spirited nation, a very divided nation,  if we don't take great  care  

 

 

i hate sounding preachy like this and usually try to avoid it , but some of the arrogant comments are getting very tiresome.

 

 

 

Keep up the good work Ken 

 

How and why is what I said anything to do with Ken being a voice for the homeless? I made no reference to him at all.

 

It was in response to your saying that if anyone thinksthat working hard = greater rewards is fookin delusional. An opinion I disagree with since some people who work hard do get their rewards and some don't.

[Zingari]

How and why is what I said anything to do with Ken being a voice for the homeless? I made no reference to him at all.

 

It was in response to your saying that if anyone thinksthat working hard = greater rewards is fookin delusional. An opinion I disagree with since some people who work hard do get their rewards and some don't.

It wasn't particularly aimed at you Smudge , only the first sentence   

[Smudge]

And if you piss on people on the way up you will smell the aroma of your success on the way down as you pass them.

I have no idea what that has to do with what I said, you'll have to explain that to me Ken.

[Smudge]

It wasn't particularly aimed at you Smudge , only the first sentence   

Twat!

[Zingari]

Twat!

 

 

OK Who thinks black people have always had the same chance as whites in the UK and life might be pretty unfair to them ?

 

I'd guess most people would say they didn't have the same chances and maybe life was unfair to them  ,

 

OK  Can you not make  a small leap ( a tiny leap in fact ) and try to grasp that life hasn't always been fair to some of the whites either , they ( or we) have been kept down in much the same but less obvious ways.

 

We shouldn't delude ourselves that people don't have good reason to be angry at the government.

i think we're heading for mass disruption on the city streets again just like the early 80's   

 

edit;

 

again it's not aimed at you Smudge or anyone in particular , just a thinking out loud post 

Edited 24 August 2013 by Zingari

[Smudge]

 

 

 

OK Who thinks black people have always had the same chance as whites in the UK and life might be pretty unfair to them ?

 

I'd guess most people would say they didn't have the same chances and maybe life was unfair to them  ,

 

OK  Can you not make  a small leap ( a tiny leap in fact ) and try to grasp that life hasn't always been fair to some of the whites either , they ( or we) have been kept down in much the same but less obvious ways.

 

We shouldn't delude ourselves that people don't have good reason to be angry at the government.

i think we're heading for mass disruption on the city streets again just like the early 80's   

 

edit;

 

again it's not aimed at you Smudge or anyone in particular , just a thinking out loud post 

Fine just don't paint me with the brush that I think anyone who hasn't got on is a lazy bum. That is far from the case, some of my best mates are lazy bums.

[MooseBreath]

You're talking nonsense, zingy.

[leicsmac]

We all have to except responsibility for our own lives. If you choose to blame all your misfortunes on unseen forces who are spoiling your life for spite, if you accuse anyone who has a bit of success in their life as crooks and cheats, you've got to expect people to tell you you're speaking out of your backside.

 

Envy is mean spirited too.

 

Of course. But I'm thinking the point is there is more than one definition of success in this life, and it's not just about material gain.

You're talking nonsense, zingy.

 

How so?