Firefighters' strike - right or wrong?

[Guest]

Maybe we'll be asking the same question in 25 years time with regard to HS2.

So we shouldn't do anything in case it doesn't work out? I know what you're saying I'm just arguing for the sake of it but there's a bit of difference between major infrastructure projects that could help a lot of people and businesses and promising full pensions at 50 to a small section of public sector workers.

[The God Emperor]

goddam gubbermint. in the wise words of dale gribble, "I wish the government would ban itself"

[Jon the Hat]

We have a large deficit and yet the government are still trying to bribe the electorate by guaranteeing mortgages with public money and paying for free school meals.

 

I think we can afford to pay public sector workers a fair wage.

 

The first is trying to help boost the construction industry.  The second is probably wrong but well intentioned attempt to stop an epidemic of obesity in future generations.

[leicsmac]

The first is trying to help boost the construction industry.  The second is probably wrong but well intentioned attempt to stop an epidemic of obesity in future generations.

 

Right.

 

But if the Government really wanted to help the construction industry, they would put money into lots and lots of new builds and bring general house prices down, rather than encouraging a scheme that gets first-time buyers into more debt with public money and keeps prices high.

[leicsmac]

Wish I could strike over my pension, if I did I would lose my job and there would be 50 people behind me being interviewed to take it

 

Its an absolute joke they use the danger of their job as leverage to get a better pension? Their terms are beyond a joke as it is, retireing on a silly pension and mid 50's

 

Winds me up, the whole of the cushy public sector does!

 

Which says something about the lack of opportunity in the jobs sector right now?

[The Guvnor]

The main concern for Fire fighters and why they have gone on strike covers several areas, the main cause for concern, is the proposed extended change to their original contracts, and the area of capability.

The government have ensured Fire fighters, that they won't be sacked if they become physically unable to continue operational duties( capability) as they approach and reach 60. The Union, and membership, are sceptical of these promises.

Fire Fighters may now have to work an additional 10 years service in able to draw their pension. I personally would not be skipping home if I found out I had to work an additional 10 years when my original contract stated I could retire at 50,so you can possibly understand the scepticism of believing the government with their assurances, when they propose to extend their original 30 year contracts to 40.

[1964FOX]

Clearly they ar right to be angry if unilateral changes are made to contracts by th employer. The new conditions should only apply to new starts and the old contracts with regards to pension rights should've honoured.

Next April I have a similar change to my pension scheme that I have been paying fo 28 years adding another 7 years before I can claim it despite the fact my pension fund is huge an could accommodate everybody on the current terms easily and still have huge reserves but we have to prop up other funds where the employers have given themselves zero interest loans and made bad investments.

[Rincewind]

Saw a bit on the news and a union rep was asking about gurantees if he invalided out the service. He said he has a mortgage and family to think about.

With my PP that I forgot about because it was frozen I could have started to take it at 55. Whats it like with work pension funds?

As it is now because my income is means tested I won't be better off until 65 and even then  inflation may erode the extra. Three years wait to see if any goalposts are moved.

 

10 years is a long time for any government to keep a promise given past records.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Why should Fireman get a better deal than nurses, Police, Ambulance.

They do a great job. but are not the only ones. Time to stop being greedy, and pull their weight along with others, who also have to suffer.

Police can't strike, and their job is bloody dangerous, too.

Well said DT

Spot on

[Strokes]

I think several of us who work in public sectors are getting pretty fed up with committing to a job and signing to a particular contract only for the employers to think its ok after years of service to turn around and say, well actually we are just going to change your contract that you agreed to because we don't want to pay you as much as we agreed before.

I got no problem and neither has anyone else if pensions and terms need to be changed for the future but that should be done to the future contracts offered not to a contract that a fireman for example had already agreed to 25 years ago only for the employer to be allowed to change it now. if the employer is not going to honour their side of the agreement then it is no wonder the employees want to strike why should they keep to their side of the agreement? Good on the fire service I say if they want to strike stand up for yourself

If they were offering new starters a better deal but you had to stay on your original contract how would you feel? A little bit strikey?

[Saxondale]

The greedy wankers are planning to strike again on October 19th.

 

Absolutely disgusting.

[Guest ttfn]

Out of interest, how long are firefighters' contracts? Or are they day-to-day?

[The God Emperor]

why is everyone going on strike all of a sudden? fire fighters, teachers and even at my work we're supposed to balloting for one soon.

[Zingari]

why is everyone going on strike all of a sudden? fire fighters, teachers and even at my work we're supposed to balloting for one soon.

Maybe Tory governments are just more confrontational when dealing with collective bargaining?

Maybe they can understand the value of individuals , but can't grasp the value of the masses? 

[The God Emperor]

Maybe Tory governments are just more confrontational when dealing with collective bargaining?

Maybe they can understand the value of individuals , but can't grasp the value of the masses? 

the teachers strike I could understand, they didn't agree with Gove's changes so they striked to show this. 

this firefighters one I don't really understand. how on earth in times of fluctuating economies and huge public spending deficits that have sent some countries under can you expect to retire at 50? Tory government or not that is ridiculous.

I do wonder if it is the unions deliberately trying to undermine the tory government due to there support of the labour party. 

[Zingari]

the teachers strike I could understand, they didn't agree with Gove's changes so they striked to show this. 

this firefighters one I don't really understand. how on earth in times of fluctuating economies and huge public spending deficits that have sent some countries under can you expect to retire at 50? Tory government or not that is ridiculous.

I do wonder if it is the unions deliberately trying to undermine the tory government due to there support of the labour party. 

You may be right about that, in the same way that many believe that big businesses/banks etc  would conspire to undermine the  labour party to favour the Tories . They could both sacrifice short term hardship for long term gain. 

But ask yourself , which of these (if true) would most likely succeed in such an enterprise ?

[The God Emperor]

You may be right about that, in the same way that many believe that big businesses/banks etc  would conspire to undermine the  labour party to favour the Tories . They could both sacrifice short term hardship for long term gain. 

But ask yourself , which of these (if true) would most likely succeed in such an enterprise ?

I'd say the unions, those high up in the union to be specific, I imagine and have heard stuff from union reps at work that they recive generous backhanders and favours from the party and others.

big business receive generous subsidies under either party and neither care about small businesses.

but this is what happens when government is in a position to grant favours, the man on the street plays the role of Marcellus Wallace and the government/big business/unions playing the role of Zed.

[Zingari]

I'd say the unions, those high up in the union to be specific, I imagine and have heard stuff from union reps at work that they recive generous backhanders and favours from the party and others.

big business receive generous subsidies under either party and neither care about small businesses.

but this is what happens when government is in a position to grant favours, the man on the street plays the role of Marcellus Wallace and the government/big business/unions playing the role of Zed.

Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure it's easier for a combination of big business and a sympathetic government to succeed in crushing the mass of the people than vice versa.

Big business seem incredibly adept at gaining sympathy for its plight but the masses are always portrayed as greedy . 

[Webbo]

Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure it's easier for a combination of big business and a sympathetic government to succeed in crushing the mass of the people than vice versa.

Big business seem incredibly adept at gaining sympathy for its plight but the masses are always portrayed as greedy . 

Yeah, no one ever calls business,big or otherwise, greedy.

[The God Emperor]

Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure it's easier for a combination of big business and a sympathetic government to succeed in crushing the mass of the people than vice versa.

Big business seem incredibly adept at gaining sympathy for its plight but the masses are always portrayed as greedy . 

pretty much, their very good at getting special treatment to protect British industry from 'unfair competition'. when all they end up doing is protecting the British consumer from better value. 

[Zingari]

Yeah, no one ever calls business,big or otherwise, greedy.

I'm sure they do , that's not what i was really intending to say .

 

But their  power to crush the "greedy masses" far outstrips the power of the masses to crush greedy businesses and corporations.

You only have to look at third world countries in asia and south america  to see how businesses left unchallenged will treat the masses.

They really won't play fair you know given the opportunity     

[Mike Oxlong]

Being a firefighter must be great.

Uniforms

Waterfights

Getting to race around in a big red shiny engine with the nee nah lights on full blast

Must be ace.

[Zingari]

Being a firefighter must be great.

Uniforms

Waterfights

Getting to race around in a big red shiny engine with the nee nah lights on full blast

Must be ace.

They should put that on the recruitment ads Mike 

[Rincewind]

Postmen have a good time as well. Driving around in a van with a pussy next to them all day.