Midfield

[Babylon]

Not picking on you but I think you will find Barnsley scored from open play.

There have been that many for and against I've lost track!!! Ha. You're correct!

[mackiepas]

Can you expand on this please?

certainly...

 

Toothless - Spineless - Backwards - Sideways - Inept at times.

Lost 2 games in all competitions, midfield has been solid and at times pushed teams back for long periods of games. A Bolton midfield is toothless and spineless, The Leicester midfield is certainly not. Backwards? sometimes backwards can be the only option, especially when Nugent is out of form so badly and cannot create space for himself for the midfielders to pass to. Inept at times? really? what are you watching, DD's range of passing this season has been outstanding, his vision has tight unlocked defenses, albeit it didnt work on sat, King, i read a stat that he had a 95% passing accuracy rate, what more do you want from a championship side!

How many games per season does King really have a good game? We all know he is a good player with a nice touch, eye for goal and has the club at heart but how often does he 'bring it'?

You said it yourself, "We all know he is a good player with a nice touch, eye for goal and has the club at heart" How often, this season I don't think he's had a bad game. I personally think his performances get overlooked, much like Neil Lennons did in the 90's, no im not comparing him to Lennon, just making the point that he plays a vital role in the midfield that sometimes gets over looked.

 

Will Drinkwater ever pass forward? I understand the importance of retaining possession, patient football and building from the back but his instant reaction to reaction to receiving the ball is to pass to either Koncheskey or Morgan. 

Again you've answered your own question,  "I understand the importance of retaining possession, patient football and building from the back" If you truely do understand this then why are you questioning it when you know the answer?

 

Teams run through our midfield on a regular basis without a touch or a push or ANY pressure at all.

No NO No not at all... certainly not this season they haven't.

King, Drinkwater and James are all the same player who play the same way. They offer very little going forward and in defence. No drive, no determination, nothing. All they do is pass the buck to the next man. 

Absolute rubbish, but if thats your opinion and your stuck on it then thats upto you.

 

This was the reason we lost yesterday.

We totally dominated the game from start to finish, the reason we lost the game was the attrocious lack movement of Nugent who just stood on his defender all game, a bad keeper mistake and a lack of quality in the box. we pushed them for the entire second half, some of the best players in the world sometimes cannot break down teams that 'park the bus'.

 

Notes:

- Not an overreaction to yesterday - Yes it is

- My thoughts for a long time - re-assess your thought process

- Enjoying ripping my arguement apart and betending everything is okay. - everything is ok, massive over reaction, are you a teenager that doesnt got to games and relies on Young and Stringer for opinions by any chance?

[hackneyfox]

But again, if he'd changed the formation and personnel and we'd lost, he'd be getting dog's abuse on here for changing a winning side. Like Babs said - damned if you do, damned if you don't

If he made changes like he does in the cup and we'd lost he'd have been rightly pulled up.

Many people thought the centre backs and midfield were starting to look leggy in the previous game.

I expected to see Wasyl ans Hammond or James play.

At the least he should have used subs quicker than he did.

The idea that you don;t change a winning side is ludicrous especially when we supposedly have more depth to the squad this year.

[indierich06]

If he made changes like he does in the cup and we'd lost he'd have been rightly pulled up.

Many people thought the centre backs and midfield were starting to look leggy in the previous game.

I expected to see Wasyl ans Hammond or James play.

At the least he should have used subs quicker than he did.

The idea that you don;t change a winning side is ludicrous especially when we supposedly have more depth to the squad this year.

 

I'm not saying it's not, but if he'd brought in Wasyl, or Hammond, or James - or all three - then posters would definitely be on here complaining about it if we'd lost. I'm not saying that sticking with a winning team was the right thing to do, or that rotating players would have been the right thing to do, but he'll always be blamed for his team selection when we lose by all those posters who have the benefit of hindsight - it's something he'll just have to take on the chin.

 

The amount of posters who have complained about the team selection prior to the game are greater in number than the ones who complained about it pre match. IMO, the team we put out on Saturday was good enough to beat Doncaster and should have done so, but you can't win them all. The important thing is to move on and get back to winning ways, with two very winnable home games coming up.

[artursteppe]

I honestly think some fans expect us to win every single game.

I do!

[Col city fan]

We've conceded one goal from open play in the last 6 league games.

Donny - Own goal from a corner

Barnsley - Penalty

Yeovil - Penalty

Blackpool - Penalty & open play

Blackburn Penalty

Wigan - Clean Sheet

But for some individual errors we have been pretty solid and tight. Plus penalties don't count and are only seen as "lucky".

Come the end of the season it won't matter what type of goals we conceded.

All that matters will be points and position.

We have now lost away to Charlton and Donny. Two of the weaker sides in the division.

If we don't pick up at least a point from fixtures like this, we'll again most likely be scratching around for that play-off spot.

This needs to not happen. Pearson must develop a system in which we don't go away and lose games, especially to very average opposition.

I've advocated, as you know, a third midfielder for a couple of seasons now. And stick with it.

We have the pace to counter attack. Let's control the middle, cover our defenders and and hit on the break.

[artursteppe]

We've been "lucky" with pennos, yet QPR (three pennos in last three games) are the dogs dangling bits.

We've "not been tested against top half teams" (played 4 in top half), where as QPR are sweeping all aside (played 1 in top half).

Are we perfect, no. Are there things we can improve, of course. There seems to be a lack of perspective from some on here though.

It is about perspective, but it also about aspiration. Pearson should be trying to improve the team and it's achievements continuously, game after game, and then some. He seems to be stuck in a 70s time warp. We play 4-4-2, or so people think. However when Dyer reverts to type and becomes simply a winger and abdicates his defensive duties, and then if Knocky were to do the same we would in fact be playing a formation that would be 4-2-4. That is and always has been the most ineffective set up in the history of professional football. It did not work in the second half of last season and the indications are that we are moving in that direction again. It worries me.

Pearson needs to get a grip. He needs to change things now. We must play three from King, Drinkwater, James and Hammond in the starting line up whoever else is in the team and whatever formation. That would give us a far more reliable platform and much greater consistency. it is that simple, it really is.

[deep blue]

But again, if he'd changed the formation and personnel and we'd lost, he'd be getting dog's abuse on here for changing a winning side. Like Babs said - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Well, I certainly wasn't giving him dog's abuse, merely stating my opinion that if you can see signs in a match of weaknesses creeping into the team's performance then you have the opportunity of addressing that by tweaking the team selection for the next match.  Alternatively you can simply pick the same team & formation and hope that the weakness doesn't persist into that next game.

[XLM]

End of the day we've had a great start, largely down to our midfielders, who more often than not, control play. Our team isn't set up around one striker who'll get us all the goals this season (Like Huddersfield, QPR etc), and our midfielders have chipped in a lot with goals. Not to mention their ability to defend and track back too. 

Possibly freshening things up a bit and starting James in the next game might help, but I genuinely think in terms of ability, as well as price value, we have one the best midfields in the league.

[artursteppe]

Come the end of the season it won't matter what type of goals we conceded.

All that matters will be points and position.

We have now lost away to Charlton and Donny. Two of the weaker sides in the division.

If we don't pick up at least a point from fixtures like this, we'll again most likely be scratching around for that play-off spot.

This needs to not happen. Pearson must develop a system in which we don't go away and lose games, especially to very average opposition.

I've advocated, as you know, a third midfielder for a couple of seasons now. And stick with it.

We have the pace to counter attack. Let's control the middle, cover our defenders and and hit on the break.

Blimey Col, we seem to be on the same page as each other. I think we actually agree.

[indierich06]

It is about perspective, but it also about aspiration. Pearson should be trying to improve the team and it's achievements continuously, game after game, and then some. He seems to be stuck in a 70s time warp. We play 4-4-2, or so people think. However when Dyer reverts to type and becomes simply a winger and abdicates his defensive duties, and then if Knocky were to do the same we would in fact be playing a formation that would be 4-2-4. That is and always has been the most ineffective set up in the history of professional football. It did not work in the second half of last season and the indications are that we are moving in that direction again. It worries me.

Pearson needs to get a grip. He needs to change things now. We must play three from King, Drinkwater, James and Hammond in the starting line up whoever else is in the team and whatever formation. That would give us a far more reliable platform and much greater consistency. it is that simple, it really is.

 

If we're stuck in a time warp and playing dreadfully ineffective football, why are we third in the league, having won 7 out of 11 games and lost only 2?

 

Some of you lot talk like we're bottom of the ****ing league, we're three points off the top of the table!

[Dickov22]

Come the end of the season it won't matter what type of goals we conceded.

All that matters will be points and position.

We have now lost away to Charlton and Donny. Two of the weaker sides in the division.

If we don't pick up at least a point from fixtures like this, we'll again most likely be scratching around for that play-off spot.

This needs to not happen. Pearson must develop a system in which we don't go away and lose games, especially to very average opposition.

I've advocated, as you know, a third midfielder for a couple of seasons now. And stick with it.

We have the pace to counter attack. Let's control the middle, cover our defenders and and hit on the break.

I agree with you to an extent. Whilst we can't win every game, we do need to do better away from home. On the 3 midfielders point though, I'm just not sure we have the players to do this effectively. We were abysmal in a 3-5-2- completely lacked any width and barely created anything. A 4-3-3 also doesn't work for us because we end up playing 3 strikers who all want to play through the middle, and asking two of them to play wider. They hate it. We also lack any width playing this system.

We're at our best in my opinion in a 4-4-2 because we have width, pace and cause problems going forward. Surely in this formation you just ask one of the centre mids to sit back, whilst the other attacks? Or we do what we did in Pearson's first spell, and play a centre mid in one of the wider positions in a 4 man midfield? Maybe away from home?

Just playing devils advocate.

[svensson]

It is about perspective, but it also about aspiration. Pearson should be trying to improve the team and it's achievements continuously, game after game, and then some. He seems to be stuck in a 70s time warp. We play 4-4-2, or so people think. However when Dyer reverts to type and becomes simply a winger and abdicates his defensive duties, and then if Knocky were to do the same we would in fact be playing a formation that would be 4-2-4. That is and always has been the most ineffective set up in the history of professional football. It did not work in the second half of last season and the indications are that we are moving in that direction again. It worries me.

Pearson needs to get a grip. He needs to change things now. We must play three from King, Drinkwater, James and Hammond in the starting line up whoever else is in the team and whatever formation. That would give us a far more reliable platform and much greater consistency. it is that simple, it really is.

But Dyer never abdicates his defensive duties?? Bit of an irrelivent post from you really.

[_Fatboyslow_]

Just playing devils advocate.

But are you wrong ? I don't really think so, then again I did post 442 top of the leauge and it was ignored. I would love to see us playing with a differant setup but with our current squad we don't seem to be able to make them work, so surely it's best to play with the formation that gives results ?

[artursteppe]

If we're stuck in a time warp and playing dreadfully ineffective football, why are we third in the league, having won 7 out of 11 games and lost only 2?

 

Some of you lot talk like we're bottom of the ****ing league, we're three points off the top of the table!

Aspiration dude, aspiration. 

[artursteppe]

Just a reminder to those with short memories. We got 12 points from our last 16 matches last season playing 4-2-4. We are now playing 4-2-4 again, or 4-4-2 if you really believe that is what we are doing. That is what worries me. Yes it has worked a little better this season, but Barnsley and Doncaster are teams we should be hammering, not struggling against, and don't start on about Yeovil either, they are a league 1 side. Two penalties and two outfield goals scored in those three matches and three goals conceded against dross is not good. It is rubbish. Some of you, like our manager, do not want to recognise the truth.

[Dickov22]

Come the end of the season it won't matter what type of goals we conceded.

All that matters will be points and position.

We have now lost away to Charlton and Donny. Two of the weaker sides in the division.

If we don't pick up at least a point from fixtures like this, we'll again most likely be scratching around for that play-off spot.

This needs to not happen. Pearson must develop a system in which we don't go away and lose games, especially to very average opposition.

I've advocated, as you know, a third midfielder for a couple of seasons now. And stick with it.

We have the pace to counter attack. Let's control the middle, cover our defenders and and hit on the break.

I agree with you to an extent. Whilst we can't win every game, we do need to do better away from home. On the 3 midfielders point though, I'm just not sure we have the players to do this effectively. We were abysmal in a 3-5-2- completely lacked any width and barely created anything. A 4-3-3 also doesn't work for us because we end up playing 3 strikers who all want to play through the middle, and asking two of them to play wider. They hate it. We also lack any width playing this system.

We're at our best in my opinion in a 4-4-2 because we have width, pace and cause problems going forward. Surely in this formation you just ask one of the centre mids to sit back, whilst the other attacks? Or we do what we did in Pearson's first spell, and play a centre mid in one of the wider positions in a 4 man midfield? Maybe away from home?

Just playing devils advocate.

[svensson]

Just a reminder to those with short memories. We got 12 points from our last 16 matches last season playing 4-2-4. We are now playing 4-2-4 again, or 4-4-2 if you really believe that is what we are doing. That is what worries me. Yes it has worked a little better this season, but Barnsley and Doncaster are teams we should be hammering, not struggling against, and don't start on about Yeovil either, they are a league 1 side. Two penalties and two outfield goals scored in those three matches and three goals conceded against dross is not good. It is rubbish. Some of you, like our manager, do not want to recognise the truth.

The only truth of the matter is, we are winning, it may be a little hard for you to comprehend. Who cares if we hammer someone or not? Id happily take boring 1-0 wins all the way. I think you watch too much prem and spanish football, must be confused about who we really are.

[Johnny Cash]

Well your argument fell flat on its face as soon as you posted it - this was because it was bull. Please don't bother starting again. Your comments are slightly embarrassing. Dickov22 has spoke more sense in that post than you have in the whole thread. The whole thing is made even worse by the fact you were at the game. Should probably watch it a little more closely next time then return with a "well thought out response" to why our midfield is so bad. Oh I forgot if we win our next game you won't post anyway!

 

Sorry Mr 13 posts but I have my say as we all do after every performance. So thanks for researching my history.

 

"Well thought out response" - Is this a bad thing? Am i supposed to type the way I speak instead? Did you resent the top set children at school?

 

Judging by the manure you have decided to type I am guessing you have more posts than ticket stubs in recent years.

[Johnny Cash]

The only truth of the matter is, we are winning, it may be a little hard for you to comprehend. Who cares if we hammer someone or not? Id happily take boring 1-0 wins all the way. I think you watch too much prem and spanish football, must be confused about who we really are.

 

Because sooner or later, bad performances catch up with you and you lose to people like Doncaster, oh look, that just happened.

 

It's as if you're a bad fan on this forum if you have a tiny bit of critique and don't walk the streets as if we're unbeatable.

 

Who cares how we have started the season, seriously, who gives a flying boot, it's how we will finish the season, bad performances will catch up with us and that will be our downfall come the end.

 

If I'm wrong, I'll meet you by the open top parade and be singing as loud as the 'good fans' but allow us to have our doubts in October please.

[artursteppe]

I agree with you to an extent. Whilst we can't win every game, we do need to do better away from home. On the 3 midfielders point though, I'm just not sure we have the players to do this effectively. We were abysmal in a 3-5-2- completely lacked any width and barely created anything. A 4-3-3 also doesn't work for us because we end up playing 3 strikers who all want to play through the middle, and asking two of them to play wider. They hate it. We also lack any width playing this system.

We're at our best in my opinion in a 4-4-2 because we have width, pace and cause problems going forward. Surely in this formation you just ask one of the centre mids to sit back, whilst the other attacks? Or we do what we did in Pearson's first spell, and play a centre mid in one of the wider positions in a 4 man midfield? Maybe away from home?

Just playing devils advocate.

You obviously did not go to the derby away game. We played 4-3-3 quite effectively and were largely in control. The front three covered a lot of ground defensively and played with width. I can remember at one point Wood covering at left back when Schlupp was stranded further forward. We were 'cruising' until our benevolent manager decided he would give derby a chance to get one or even three points from the match when, with 20 odd minutes to go he changed to 4-4-2. We were very very lucky to not concede.

[Johnny Cash]

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, tried to assume that if you'd been at the game you couldn't possibly believe the rubbish you came out with in that post. Knowing you were at the game AND came up with that post makes you look even more ridiculous. You just don't know football. Look forward to your post match analysis for the next game.......

 

 

Thank you for your lenient approach but as stated, someone with a working brain would realise I was at the game from reading the opening post.

 

Let me guess, a Nugent fan? Am I right?

[artursteppe]

The only truth of the matter is, we are winning, it may be a little hard for you to comprehend. Who cares if we hammer someone or not? Id happily take boring 1-0 wins all the way. I think you watch too much prem and spanish football, must be confused about who we really are.

I have aspiration, You want to support a team that is no better than Doncaster or Barnsley. AND, I would prefer a 1-0 win at places like Barnsley, not a 0-1 defeat.

[Dickov22]

Thank you for your lenient approach but as stated, someone with a working brain would realise I was at the game from reading the opening post.

Let me guess, a Nugent fan? Am I right?

You're welcome. Still can't see how, if you went to the game as you say, you viewed it that we lost the game in midfield. Hey ho.

I quote like Nugent yes- he works hard and has a good record since joining us.

Don't tell me, you liked Beckford?

[Johnny Cash]

certainly...

 

Toothless - Spineless - Backwards - Sideways - Inept at times.

Lost 2 games in all competitions, midfield has been solid and at times pushed teams back for long periods of games. A Bolton midfield is toothless and spineless, The Leicester midfield is certainly not. Backwards? sometimes backwards can be the only option, especially when Nugent is out of form so badly and cannot create space for himself for the midfielders to pass to. Inept at times? really? what are you watching, DD's range of passing this season has been outstanding, his vision has tight unlocked defenses, albeit it didnt work on sat, King, i read a stat that he had a 95% passing accuracy rate, what more do you want from a championship side!

How many games per season does King really have a good game? We all know he is a good player with a nice touch, eye for goal and has the club at heart but how often does he 'bring it'?

You said it yourself, "We all know he is a good player with a nice touch, eye for goal and has the club at heart" How often, this season I don't think he's had a bad game. I personally think his performances get overlooked, much like Neil Lennons did in the 90's, no im not comparing him to Lennon, just making the point that he plays a vital role in the midfield that sometimes gets over looked.

 

Will Drinkwater ever pass forward? I understand the importance of retaining possession, patient football and building from the back but his instant reaction to reaction to receiving the ball is to pass to either Koncheskey or Morgan. 

Again you've answered your own question,  "I understand the importance of retaining possession, patient football and building from the back" If you truely do understand this then why are you questioning it when you know the answer?

 

Teams run through our midfield on a regular basis without a touch or a push or ANY pressure at all.

No NO No not at all... certainly not this season they haven't.

King, Drinkwater and James are all the same player who play the same way. They offer very little going forward and in defence. No drive, no determination, nothing. All they do is pass the buck to the next man. 

Absolute rubbish, but if thats your opinion and your stuck on it then thats upto you.

 

This was the reason we lost yesterday.

We totally dominated the game from start to finish, the reason we lost the game was the attrocious lack movement of Nugent who just stood on his defender all game, a bad keeper mistake and a lack of quality in the box. we pushed them for the entire second half, some of the best players in the world sometimes cannot break down teams that 'park the bus'.

 

Notes:

- Not an overreaction to yesterday - Yes it is

- My thoughts for a long time - re-assess your thought process

- Enjoying ripping my arguement apart and betending everything is okay. - everything is ok, massive over reaction, are you a teenager that doesnt got to games and relies on Young and Stringer for opinions by any chance?

 

This could take a while... So,

 

Kings passing rate - I'd be worried if Wes Morgan couldn't latch on to his AMAZING DISTRIBUTION...

 

Drinkwater unlocking defences - Passing to Koncheskey and Dyer and the odd hit and hope to RDL is not unlocking defences. The amount of times Drinkwater has the ball per game, he should be doing so much more if he is the player some proclaim him to be. He has done his part with the goals this season, fair enough, not knocking him for that but his backwards passing is an issue. No point in you trying to change my mind on that because you can't. Retaining possession is important when nothing is available infront. I would be the first to moan should our midfield hit aimless balls forward. Drinkwater especially goes backwards ALL THE TIME!

 

If your honest opinion is that teams do not run through the middle of us then I'm not going to bother arguing with you. I haven't got the footage to prove it, but it happens and it happens every game. We also probably concede the most long range shots in the division. Why? NO PRESSURE.

 

We dominated, we lost 1-0, created barely nothing... Yep, midfield not to blame...