Benefits Street

[Zingari]

Or at the very same time as Labour increased welfare spending and made benefits a lifestyle choice?

The guys on the immigrants documentary said they were getting over £300 per week. That's not a bad wage for unskilled manual labour.

Immigrants clearly drive down wages (simultaneously driving down the cost of production, making things cheaper for everyone, creating jobs and increasing exports, of course) and that is undoubtedly a factor. But the entitlement culture caused by labours vote buying policy is a bigger factor imo.

Look , for year after year, generation after generation , the farms have managed to get food to the shops at reasonable prices and we've been able to pay for it. But in the last few years we're expected to believe  the British no longer want to do it anymore and it would rot in the fields if there weren't immigrants to do the job .

 Or if we paid the British a fair rate of pay the cost would suddenly become astronomical , but no explanation is given as to why the cost of food wasn't astronomical before the influx of EU workers  , or why the British were not reluctant to work in the fields for all those years before they came .

We've had a welfare state for as long as i've been around so let's not keep blaming that . 

 

Doesn't it smell of political bullshit solely to drive down the lower paid and keep a pool of cheap labour all to eager to fight for scraps   ?

[Webbo]

I'm pretty sure the farmer would have to pay British workers the minimum wage.

[Rincewind]

That is probably true. When these figures and stats are put out they miss some of it out. 12hr shifts bending down all daym paid for the quantity they pick not a flat rate. £300/60-72 hours. A bad back after 5 years. Yes wonderful I can see white collar workers packing in their 9-5 jobs to queue for the jobs now.

Ok as a temporary job I suppose but you need to be fairly young and fit.

[MooseBreath]

Look , for year after year, generation after generation , the farms have managed to get food to the shops at reasonable prices and we've been able to pay for it. But in the last few years we're expected to believe the British no longer want to do it anymore and it would rot in the fields if there weren't immigrants to do the job .

Or if we paid the British a fair rate of pay the cost would suddenly become astronomical , but no explanation is given as to why the cost of food wasn't astronomical before the influx of EU workers , or why the British were not reluctant to work in the fields for all those years before they came .

We've had a welfare state for as long as i've been around so let's not keep blaming that .

Doesn't it smell of political bullshit solely to drive down the lower paid and keep a pool of cheap labour all to eager to fight for scraps ?

You're preaching to the converted to some degree. You won't hear me arguing against the idea that one of the main aims of immigration is for the provision of cheap labour. But I don't think that's the only factor in why British people won't do those jobs.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm pretty sure the farmer would have to pay British workers the minimum wage.

Very true, ovetime, pension, sickness, holiday etc etc.

 

Casual foriegn labour, your talking £30 - £40 a day, 7 days a week!!

 

Having worked in food manufacturing, with one of the largest provider of fresh produce to the supermarkets, it's fair to say it was struggle to get British workers to remain, we paid well above minimum wage and great overtime rates, but the work was dull and manual and people just didn't stay.

 

That all changed when EU borders were opened, there were floods and floods of poles, lats etc more then happy to work, they were more then happy to work at normal rate for overtime, bank holidays, evening, nights and, sickness etc was low.

 

It;s fair to say the company, drove down wages and perks cus the labour market was ample.  Did the consumer see a reduction in produce price..........NO!!  The biggest benifactor was the share holders

[MooseBreath]

That is probably true. When these figures and stats are put out they miss some of it out. 12hr shifts bending down all daym paid for the quantity they pick not a flat rate. £300/60-72 hours. A bad back after 5 years. Yes wonderful I can see white collar workers packing in their 9-5 jobs to queue for the jobs now.

Ok as a temporary job I suppose but you need to be fairly young and fit.

Where are you getting 60-72 hours from? You're using pure conjecture in a very narrow example and talking as if it explains everything. Ridiculous.

[Rincewind]

All workers have to be paid the minimum wage by law.

[Zingari]

You're preaching to the converted to some degree. You won't hear me arguing against the idea that one of the main aims of immigration is for the provision of cheap labour. But I don't think that's the only factor in why British people won't do those jobs.

Lets hear some more reasons/factors why the British have become reluctant to do jobs they've done for generations .

And why now , just when there is a pool of cheap foreign  labour to do it . 

Don't you think that its  odd for the two things to happen simultaneously after so many years  ?

 

 

Damn !! the Brits won't work at these jobs any more !!!

Never mind , just by a stroke of luck there is a pool of EU workers ready to do the work instead .

Gosh that was lucky !! 

[Webbo]

Very true, ovetime, pension, sickness, holiday etc etc.

 

Casual foriegn labour, your talking £30 - £40 a day, 7 days a week!!

 

Having worked in food manufacturing, with one of the largest provider of fresh produce to the supermarkets, it's fair to say it was struggle to get British workers to remain, we paid well above minimum wage and great overtime rates, but the work was dull and manual and people just didn't stay.

 

That all changed when EU borders were opened, there were floods and floods of poles, lats etc more then happy to work, they were more then happy to work at normal rate for overtime, bank holidays, evening, nights and, sickness etc was low.

 

It;s fair to say the company, drove down wages and perks cus the labour market was ample.  Did the consumer see a reduction in produce price..........NO!!  The biggest benifactor was the share holders

I can't argue with that at all.

[Dr The Singh]

Lets hear some more reasons/factors why the British have become reluctant to do jobs they've done for generations .

And why now , just when there is a pool of cheap foreign  labour to do it . 

Don't you think that its  odd for the two things to happen simultaneously after so many years  ?

 

 

Damn !! the Brits won't work at these jobs any more !!!

Never mind , just by a stroke of luck there is a pool of EU workers ready to do the work instead .

Gosh that was lucky !! 

In my experience is because there is an easier way of living then having to graft......whether that be living with your parents and getting JSA, getting housing benefit and working 'cash in hand'.  Every person has a different reason, but if you compare it to the third world, if you don't work, you don't eat!!  No job is too low or too hard!!!

[The God Emperor]

Lets hear some more reasons/factors why the British have become reluctant to do jobs they've done for generations .

And why now , just when there is a pool of cheap foreign  labour to do it . 

Don't you think that its  odd for the two things to happen simultaneously after so many years  ?

 

 

Damn !! the Brits won't work at these jobs any more !!!

Never mind , just by a stroke of luck there is a pool of EU workers ready to do the work instead .

Gosh that was lucky !! 

mainly talking about younger people again but one part is attitude. the ones that want to do these jobs for the experience are shafted by the minimum wage and other laws which makes it difficult to find work due to their lack of experience and skills, because of this their labour isn't worth what the employer has to by law pay them. 

[Zingari]

I can't argue with that at all.

you can't can't argue with casual foreign labour at £30 a day causing our own people to become unemployed ? 

[MooseBreath]

Lets hear some more reasons/factors why the British have become reluctant to do jobs they've done for generations .

And why now , just when there is a pool of cheap foreign labour to do it .

Don't you think that its odd for the two things to happen simultaneously after so many years ?

Damn !! the Brits won't work at these jobs any more !!!

Never mind , just by a stroke of luck there is a pool of EU workers ready to do the work instead .

Gosh that was lucky !!

I've already given you the reason - entitlement culture/benefits lifestyle offered out by Labour in return for votes.

Yes we had the welfare state previously but only recently has it become a lifestyle choice and this has coincided with mass immigration.

If you're arguing that raising the minimum wage would tempt more British people into work then, a) there shouldn't be a choice in the first place, and B) how can the country compete in a global market when the cost of basic unskilled domestic labour is prohibitively high?

Our current minimum wage is broadly in line with other developed nations and that's how it should remain. Opportunities such as education should and do exist for those who want to do better.

[Dr The Singh]

you can't can't argue with casual foreign labour at £30 a day causing our own people to become unemployed ? 

It is and it isn't, can that employer could find people to work on the books?  There are many illegal and legal immigrants more then willing to work 'cash in hand'.

 

There is also the employer expliotation, where ample labour will allow the employer to make staff work twelve hours and pay for 8, and make staff work through lunch etc

 

This is the result of bad government policy!!

[Webbo]

you can't can't argue with casual foreign labour at £30 a day causing our own people to become unemployed ? 

No, obviously one of the reasons why the govt lets in all these foreigners is to force down wages. Anyone who has lost their job to this has every right to be angry.

 

If it is £30 a day ( I'm not sure if that's true, surely min wage would be around £50-60 a day) that's £150 a week, double what Funghi is getting in benefits and it would only be 6 to 8 weeks a year. Isn't that better than wasting your life on benefits?

[Smudge]

you can't can't argue with casual foreign labour at £30 a day causing our own people to become unemployed ? 

I think you could offer them a £100 a day and they wouldn't do it, well not for long.

[ADK]

It's a shame the amount of prejudice there is against young people in this country.

[Zingari]

It's a shame the amount of prejudice there is against young people in this country.

Too right .

It's also a shame the amount of prejudice against British people ( including former immigrants from Asia and WI) as a whole .

it's as though none of us  has ever done a day's work in their life, and if it wasn't for a few eastern Europeans rescuing us from our miserable existence  the crops would be left to rot in the ground or the food in the supermarkets would be twice the price ,

[Zingari]

I think you could offer them a £100 a day and they wouldn't do it, well not for long.

Who are "them" , and who do you think worked the fields before we had the benefit of labour from eastern  europe ?

[Rincewind]

£100 a day or £10 a day  that is a hard choice but I think personally I may choose the £100 per day/

[Smudge]

Who are "them" , and who do you think worked the fields before we had the benefit of labour from eastern  europe ?

I know who are them, and they are not around any more. In fact I know who are them better than most. My wife's cousins husband worked 50 years for the same farmer. the strongest man I ever met. No one can replace a person like him, certainly no-one like you or me.

[MooseBreath]

Who are "them" , and who do you think worked the fields before we had the benefit of labour from eastern europe ?

Maybe Australian backpackers and the like. Certainly not the people on benefits street or those on the hundreds of similar streets across the country.

[Zingari]

Maybe Australian backpackers and the like. Certainly not the people on benefits street or those on the hundreds of similar streets across the country.

So let me get this straight .

The Irish came to do the jobs the British wouldn't do , then the West Indians , then the Indians , then the Ugandan Asians ,Nigerians,  Pakistanis then the Philippinos, Chinese.   the Australian backpackers, Vietnamese cockle pickers  , western Europeans and now we seem to be incapable without the eastern Europeans . 

And  somehow all the others that came in to do the jobs we wouldn't do,  don't seem to do them either now ?

Is there a pattern developing here?

 

edit;

but that's enough about it from me now  . Smudge has given me all the info i needed to understand the problem . (his wife's cousins husband is irreplaceable)

i'll leave it there   

[MooseBreath]

So let me get this straight .

The Irish came to do the jobs the British wouldn't do , then the West Indians , then the Indians , then the Ugandan Asians ,Nigerians, Pakistanis then the Philippinos, Chinese. the Australian backpackers, Vietnamese cockle pickers , western Europeans and now we seem to be incapable without the eastern Europeans .

And somehow all the others that came in to do the jobs we wouldn't do, don't seem to do them either now ?

Is there a pattern developing here?

edit;

but that's enough about it from me now . Smudge has given me all the info i needed to understand the problem . (his wife's cousins husband is irreplaceable)

i'll leave it there

Probably because they take advantage of the ample opportunities for training and development and get themselves better jobs. I still don't really understand what point you're trying to make to be honest. These jobs are obviously available and there is nothing stopping British people from getting them.

[Zingari]

Probably because they take advantage of the ample opportunities for training and development and get themselves better jobs. I still don't really understand what point you're trying to make to be honest. These jobs are obviously available and there is nothing stopping British people from getting them.

I would have thought my point was pretty obvious.  

But OK, here we go.  It seems that we are not prepared to pay a good rate of pay for the "jobs we don't want to do" so we continually need to bring in labour from elsewhere who are prepared to do it , but it seems to be a very short term solution which continually requires a new wave of cheap labour to keep it sustained.Simply because they in turn soon become unwilling.It doesn't seem to take very long either.

 

Isn't it time we realised that the reason the people become unwilling to do these jobs is because they are undervalued, we need to stop them being "jobs people are unwilling to do"   .

What's the best way to do that?

 

We need to accept that we may need to pay a little more for our food ( and supermarkets take a cut in profit from them) and maybe spend a little less on designer goods and other expensive consumer trash . We have become a nation who'll spend hundreds on this trash but balk at buying good food at a price sustainable with labour paid a good rate to do the jobs no-one wants 

We need to accept that when a job is a job that people are unwilling to do , there's a fookin simple reason for it .

Is that clear enough ?