Benefits Street

[MooseBreath]

I have a couple of problems with the economics of that theory.

1) if goods have to be more expensive so we can pay people more, doesn't it just cancel itself out?

2) we're part of a global market, if we increase our cost of production it will only serve to decrease exports and make us more heavily reliant on imports, costing us wealth and jobs.

[Zingari]

I have a couple of problems with the economics of that theory.

1) if goods have to be more expensive so we can pay people more, doesn't it just cancel itself out?

2) we're part of a global market, if we increase our cost of production it will only serve to decrease exports and make us more heavily reliant on imports, costing us wealth and jobs.

No we pay more to the workers who are now producing the stuff , we pay less to those who have  now become employed to do it rather than giving money away  on benefits. 

We make the jobs that people don't want to do into jobs that people do want to do. 

 

Surely you can see if you are paying one man to work and one man to sit on his fat arse , it would be better to pay one man more and not import another man from abroad  to do the job the man sitting on his arse would do if the pay was better

 

we accept prices may rise a little to do this , but we may get a better deal on reduced taxation due to lower unemployment 

 

We are in a global market , but we already subsidise farming heavily so maybe that may have to increase or maybe the subsidies could be targeted better. And again we may use some money saved in benefits to increase subsidy 

 

How is paying one man to sit on his arse and one man being  paid to work better than just one man getting paid a bit more ? Surely you could give the working man a 50% pay rise and still be better off. it makes no sense whatsoever 

[The God Emperor]

another problem with it is it wont help british people get these jobs. the people who should be taking these jobs are fresh out of school and are looking to get something on a cv so they can move on to better things. if we used legislation (which is the soloution I believe zing is suggesting) to increase the base wage in these industries then british youngsters will find it even harder to get this kind of work and in turn move onto better things afterwards. who's going to employ someone with no skills and experience in the workplace for £10 per hour when they can employ an immigrant who's being doing this stuff for 30 years back home.

[Strokes]

If these people who are on benefits for a sustained period of time cant find a job, the state should give them work to do to earn them. There are plenty of tasks in the community that need doing, in times of austerity could help the country maintain a decent service and value for money for the taxpayer. If we allow them to do nothing for the money is it any wonder they turn out like this?

[The People's Hero]

Correct but the namby pamby lefties don't like that approach. Being asked to lift a finger whilst society pays you to live is in contravention with their human rights or similar. Pathetic.

[Trumpet]

[The People's Hero]

So we should ignore all other factors and turn a blind eye to the lazy, workshy spongers and giving them something of public benefit to do is an awful idea?

Ok. Give it 5 years and see if you still think so.

[Rincewind]

If giving something to do means work in the community why not turn them into paid jobs so they can be employed. What happens to the ones that already do those jobs. Do we make them redundant? But its OK we can then make them do the job they were getting paid for in exchange for what they are getting in JSA.

[Webbo]

Who are the Tax justice network and PCS and why should we believe what they are telling us?

[Rincewind]

Who are the Tax justice network and PCS and why should we believe what they are telling us?

Why should we believe what the government tells us?

It also says DWP, CAB and HRMC estimates.

[The People's Hero]

If giving something to do means work in the community why not turn them into paid jobs so they can be employed. What happens to the ones that already do those jobs. Do we make them redundant? But its OK we can then make them do the job they were getting paid for in exchange for what they are getting in JSA.

Because these people do not want 'paid jobs' that is the point.

Get them picking up litter or clearing drains or doing odd jobs for tax payers. Something... anything so they realise benefits are not just free money. Even lock them in the job centre mon-fri 9-5. Why should these people get free money and time with their families or time to pursue interests whilst those decent folk amongst us work hard during that time?

Why should we believe what the government tells us?

It also says DWP, CAB and HRMC estimates.

I suppose your sources are more reliable?

[sphericalfox]

Who are the Tax justice network and PCS and why should we believe what they are telling us?

 

Yeah, cos those figures seem ridiculous, exaggerated, and false. Even if they were estimates and were out by 10's of millions, let's ignore the point.

[Webbo]

So any anonymous blogger puts anything on the net as long as it suits your prejudice it must be true?

 

Also the size of those circles are deliberately out of proportion.

[Rincewind]

There are already people doing jobs as litter pickers being paid. If my sources involve those that are closest to the information then yes. I would rather a doctor diagnose my illness than a plumber.

[Zingari]

Who are the Tax justice network and PCS and why should we believe what they are telling us?

i can see what you mean about their estimates , but the hmrc figures are easy enough to check . i've just googled the hmrc estimated tax avoidance figures and it tallies with what they say,  So ,even  if you only trust that the   hmrc figures are correct then  35 billion is a massive amount compared to benefit fraud etc They're talking the talk about doing something about it , but the level seems to have been pretty much the same for the past few years

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2013.pdf

 

by all means check the other figures for yourself if you like 

[Rincewind]

So any anonymous blogger puts anything on the net as long as it suits your prejudice it must be true?

 

Also the size of those circles are deliberately out of proportion.

I was going to post that.

[Webbo]

I think this benefit fraud is a bit of a red herring. I don't doubt that a lot of those people in the programme are legally entitled to benefits, the question is why and is perpetuating that way of life a good thing?

[Rincewind]

There are a lot of people on lower income that do not know what they are entitled to. They struggle and some get into debt. To claim you have to ask.

[Zingari]

I think this benefit fraud is a bit of a red herring. I don't doubt that a lot of those people in the programme are legally entitled to benefits, the question is why and is perpetuating that way of life a good thing?

if you accept that these people on benefits are most probably doing so legally , why does it concern you ?

Even if we caught every single benefit claimant that was being overpaid it would amount to a mere drop in the ocean compared to the tax dodgers. 

 Why aren't you more conconcerned about the tax dodgers who aren't doing it legally and costing you the tax payer a lot more .? 

Why are you concerned that those on benefits  may be living wretched lives by our standards ? How does it affect you or I ? 

We may not choose to live like them , but we aren't faced with the same choices.

It's easy to sit here and say "i'd sooner work than not work even if it meant getting less money". The stark reality for those in such a position is probably quite different. 

[Strokes]

I think this benefit fraud is a bit of a red herring. I don't doubt that a lot of those people in the programme are legally entitled to benefits, the question is why and is perpetuating that way of life a good thing?

I agree its not defrauding the benefits that gets up my nose, its people that are legally exploiting the system to avoid working and have no shame in rubbing our noses in it, that i would like to see given a tougher ride. I am far from a saint and if i can wangle a few extra bob or two out the government, whether it be avoiding tax or fraudulant claiming, id be interested. To sit on my arse, claim and contribute nothing would be beyond even my low morals.

[Webbo]

 

if you accept that these people on benefits are most probably doing so legally , why does it concern you ?

Even if we caught every single benefit claimant that was being overpaid it would amount to a mere drop in the ocean compared to the tax dodgers. 

 Why aren't you more conconcerned about the tax dodgers who aren't doing it legally and costing you the tax payer a lot more .? 

Why are you concerned that those on benefits  may be living wretched lives by our standards ? How does it affect you or I ? 

We may not choose to live like them , but we aren't faced with the same choices.

It's easy to sit here and say "i'd sooner work than not work even if it meant getting less money". The stark reality for those in such a position is probably quite different. 

 

Did you see that programme? Did you see how they were living? What kind of way is that to bring up children? If you pay someone a wage for being poor you shouldn't be surprised if they make it a career choice.

 

BTW if anyone is doing anything illegal, such as tax evasion, then why would I want them to get away with it?

[Strokes]

if you accept that these people on benefits are most probably doing so legally , why does it concern you ?

Even if we caught every single benefit claimant that was being overpaid it would amount to a mere drop in the ocean compared to the tax dodgers.

Why aren't you more conconcerned about the tax dodgers who aren't doing it legally and costing you the tax payer a lot more .?

Why are you concerned that those on benefits may be living wretched lives by our standards ? How does it affect you or I ?

We may not choose to live like them , but we aren't faced with the same choices.

It's easy to sit here and say "i'd sooner work than not work even if it meant getting less money". The stark reality for those in such a position is probably quite different.

Just because its legal doesnt mean you have to agree with it and focus on something else.

[Zingari]

Did you see that programme? Did you see how they were living? What kind of way is that to bring up children? If you pay someone a wage for being poor you shouldn't be surprised if they make it a career choice.

 

BTW if anyone is doing anything illegal, such as tax evasion, then why would I want them to get away with it?

I don't watch those sort of programs because it's probaly just propaganda to stir up hatred and mistrust between the lower classes.

and it seems to be working very well .

 

you've said they probably are entitled to what they get , so why concern yourself with their lifestyle ? it may not appeal to you or i but so what ? neither does the lifestyle of those fraudsters who continually avoid paying the legally required amount of tax . 

i'm not saying you want anyone to get away with any illegal activity , but you seem overly concerned about a few benefit claimants. 

When the chart was posted you immediately doubted the veracity of it , side stepped it and continued criticising those on benefits , if not for the benefits , but now its the lifestyle you object to.

 Well I don't really like the type of lifestyle of the rich who pack their kids off to boarding school , but guess what, it's none of my flippin business what they do.It's their choice.   

[Webbo]

 

I don't watch those sort of programs because it's probaly just propaganda to stir up hatred and mistrust between the lower classes.

and it seems to be working very well .

 

you've said they probably are entitled to what they get , so why concern yourself with their lifestyle ? it may not appeal to you or i but so what ? neither does the lifestyle of those fraudsters who continually avoid paying the legally required amount of tax . 

i'm not saying you want anyone to get away with any illegal activity , but you seem overly concerned about a few benefit claimants. 

When the chart was posted you immediately doubted the veracity of it , side stepped it and continued criticising those on benefits , if not for the benefits , but now its the lifestyle you object to.

 Well I don't really like the type of lifestyle of the rich who pack their kids off to boarding school , but guess what, it's none of my flippin business what they do.It's their choice.   

 

If their lifestyle is no concern of mine why should I pay taxes to support it?

[Zingari]

If their lifestyle is no concern of mine why should I pay taxes to support it?

err . because you've just admitted they are probably  legally entitled to it and if they're not they'll probably get caught and suffer the consequences.

 

You are paying for a lot of other things in your taxes that you have no say about remember

 I don't particularly like paying for the queen and all her feckless tribe , but i have to put up with it .No one bothers about my opinion regarding how my tax is spent . Do you think we should pick and choose how the gov spends our money  ?