Benefits Street

[Alf Bentley]

Lets get this thread back on topic and lets all promise to not be nasty to each other

 

Sorry for the Comic Sans.

 

This is being shown again on channel four. The biggest problem with it is there is very little explanation as to why these people are on benefits, with some it is obvious, but people are being judged without the facts. [...]

 

Keeping an open mind, but based on the first episode it's not yet clear to me what they're aiming to do: a warts'n'all exposé of life on the dole with a proper range of people or a reality TV "shocker" about the worst elements?

 

- The 50p man is employable now, but would anybody give him a job in a buyer's market? (probably, due only to TV!)

- White Dee (institutionalised on dole) & Black Dee (stroppy, immature) are employable with a bit of rehabilitation

- Danny the Shoplifter has the highest potential of the lot; if someone could help him resolve his massive personality problems...but they won't because "the money isn't available", so he'll probably come to a bad end...unless he doesn't, in which case he'll unnecessarily be a massive burden on society for the rest of his life (probably in prison).

- Funghi: Seems unemployable, but maybe not....rehab, a bit of training in being a human being and he could do an unskilled job.

 

Unfortunately, rehabilitation (with coercion, if necessary) costs too much! There's no money for any of that, so shall we just spend much, much more long-term, laugh at the unfortunate, enjoy the waste and embrace the return to New Victorian Britain? 

 

               :w00t:             

 

"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think...."!

[Rincewind]

Very true. in fact it would cost more putting them in prison. They may have gone to the job centre and interviews that many times and been looked down upon that they have given up. I'm not the only one who thinks going to the job centre is humiliating.

I know people that have gone to the housing office and been spoken to like a dog. 'YOU IN THERE' 'SIT'

A little politeness would not go amiss.

But like others have said those portrayed may have gone too far to be saved. Without motivation they have nothing to strive for and if treated like wasters and scum they will become scum and will not have reason to motivate their children in being different. I am not defending them but it will take a lot to change their attitudes and shoving them deeper in the pit of doom will not help them to dig themselves out.  The more they try to dig themselves out there are those outside filling the pit in.

I have seen people being low down with little confidence and within a year with encouragement from others they have gained self esteem and now believe in themselves,

[The Year Of The Fox]

Maybe his parents are bad parents unlike you and have no control over him or they beat each other with frying pans or are unable/refuse to help him with schoolwork.

I know what is coming. There is no excuse and its blaming someone else. True but it not excuse or blame just possible causes for behavior problems which have been proven. But they can be stopped if tackled in the right way.

It doesn't mean he has ADHD or whatever

[Vlad the Fox]

It's been proven that a poor diet contributes to behaviour problems. Change his diet and they might find his behaviour improves.

[Captain...]

 

I like this game!

 

Funguy/Funghi: Completely hopeless, the absolute bottom of the barrel in society, only buzz in life is getting very drunk on cheap lager, do wonder how he still qualifies for his JSA (He said £150 at the cashpoint so thats what he is on), no way in a million years is that guy applying for six jobs every two weeks. Seems to have been kept alive by his brighter mate. Unemployable, hopeless, the opposite of what every human should aspire to be. No chance of any reform into society, potential for minor crimes. Verdict: Death penalty, passed off as alcohol poisoning.

 

 

In all seriousness Matt, if you were responsible for him what would you do? Killing him is not an option in this country. I think he was registered as disabled.

 

As for White Dee, I like your idea of her working for DNO, but do you think there would be any value in the state employing her to actually be an intermediary between the benefits office and the rest of the street. I think they would respond better to her kicking their asses than them sending a suit round.

[Rincewind]

Nobody is forced to volunteer for DNO or sign up for any of their training sessions. What is required is enthusiasm and the willingness to improve their situation by themselves and a little help from others who have experienced problems themselves. If it involves a kick up the backside to get them motivated then there will be steel toed boots available for this purpose.

DNO also run programmes for better housekeeping dieting and help with literacy. All free.(see link to leaflet in other thread)

Is this not better than being ignored and treated as scum? There is only so many times a person can be told they are useless before they start telling themselves they are and all willingness to be motivated disappears down into the sewer along with their lives.

[Guest]

When I saw the trailers for this I thought it'd be Worth watching - hopefully for some balanced viewing. Having to work occasionally I wasn't available to Watch it and after reading this thread Wonder if it's Worth downloading and using up lifetime to Watch or not.

 

I think that there is a place for "forced" community work for all people who have been on benefits for a certain amount of time. They need to find the habit to work as well as improve skills. I'm all for unemployment benefits but think that after a reasonable time for finding work of their choice they should be organized into groups that make the community  area a better place to live as well as building community feeling. There can never be enough cleaning, tidying, renovating and old people help Inside a community.

 

On a completely different topic can anyone tell me why certain words beginning with "W" like Watch and Worth are automatically being capitalised in my text and what I have to do to stop this happening. Thanks.

[Guest MattP]

In all seriousness Matt, if you were responsible for him what would you do? Killing him is not an option in this country. I think he was registered as disabled.

 

As for White Dee, I like your idea of her working for DNO, but do you think there would be any value in the state employing her to actually be an intermediary between the benefits office and the rest of the street. I think they would respond better to her kicking their asses than them sending a suit round.

 

In all seriousness if I could get away with it I'd put one in the back of his head and bury him, you would do it out of compassion if he was an animal.

 

Was he registered as disabled? No idea how, seemed absolutely fine but I realise disability these days can be applied to someone who stubbed their toe in 2002, I have no idea what I'd do with him, booze seems to be the main cause of his problems so he wouldn't be allowed alcohol and I'd try and find him some manual labour to train as, but he's so far gone he wouldnt stick it out and he quite simply wouldnt do it would he?

 

They wouldn't respond better to White Dee as as soon as she became any sort of authority that had to inconvience them she would get the same vile abuse that poor Asian lady got who turned up with an eviction notice. As has been mentioned before I'd like to know why she is on benefits whilst continuing to smoke and having beer on tap for Fungi. Wouldnt surprise me if this "help" she gives everyone was actually a front to her helping herself to a few quid, lets face it half of them wouldnt notice.

[Rincewind]

I noticed your words beginning with W. Mine is OK.

[Merging Cultures]

When I saw the trailers for this I thought it'd be Worth watching - hopefully for some balanced viewing. Having to work occasionally I wasn't available to Watch it and after reading this thread Wonder if it's Worth downloading and using up lifetime to Watch or not.

I think that there is a place for "forced" community work for all people who have been on benefits for a certain amount of time. They need to find the habit to work as well as improve skills. I'm all for unemployment benefits but think that after a reasonable time for finding work of their choice they should be organized into groups that make the community area a better place to live as well as building community feeling. There can never be enough cleaning, tidying, renovating and old people help Inside a community.

On a completely different topic can anyone tell me why certain words beginning with "W" like Watch and Worth are automatically being capitalised in my text and what I have to do to stop this happening. Thanks.

International organizations have been managing community safety nets like this for ages. India has a guaranteed employment scheme where everyone is guaranteed 100 days work (in the community) paid for by the government. South Africa is trying similar approaches with a broader definition of community work.

Google the terms 'food for work' or 'cash for work'. Often done using vouchers to prevent the recipient using the funds for something dodgy.

It's fine to do elsewhere, so why not in the UK?

In fairness it's a bit paternalistic but potentially better than giving money directly to someone who doesn't know how to use it.

[Rincewind]

Its good to have training programmes and work in the community but it has to be suitable for the person doing it and not necessary forced. Like the woman who had degrees in archaeology and was volunteering in a museum then told she had to work in Poundland. She appealed and won the case. Ironically she is now working in Tescos. But what she was doing in the museum would more likely get her a job for what she was qualified for than Poundland. You don't find many dinosaurs in Poundland unless the Rolling stones shop there.

[Guest MattP]

Like the woman who had degrees in archaeology and was volunteering in a museum then told she had to work in Poundland. She appealed and won the case. Ironically she is now working in Tescos.

lol

 

That just sums up the country.

[Merging Cultures]

Like the woman who had degrees in archaeology and was volunteering in a museum then told she had to work in Poundland. She appealed and won the case. Ironically she is now working in Tescos. But what she was doing in the museum would more likely get her a job for what she was qualified for than Poundland.

You don't find many dinosaurs in Poundland unless the Rolling stones shop there.

Not many in Tesco either.

You kinda killed your own argument there.

[Guest]

Its good to have training programmes and work in the community but it has to be suitable for the person doing it and not necessary forced. Like the woman who had degrees in archaeology and was volunteering in a museum then told she had to work in Poundland. She appealed and won the case. Ironically she is now working in Tescos. But what she was doing in the museum would more likely get her a job for what she was qualified for than Poundland. You don't find many dinosaurs in Poundland unless the Rolling stones shop there.

 

Working in poundland is not community work. And let's face it a degree in Archaeology is a BS degree if you can't get work in a very small sector. If she was out of work for over 6 months she should have been given a pair of overalls and gloves and told to pick up litter in the area that she lives or supervised in painting walls or checking if the aged needed help with the shopping or something.

[Guest MattP]

Not many in Tesco either.

You kinda killed your own argument there.

 

It's more than likely completely made up anyway.

[Captain...]

It's more than likely completely made up anyway.

 

It made the nationals that story, doesn't mean it is true granted, it was as part of the original workfare scheme, that required people to work for free for big businesses.

 

So she was being taken away from actually contributing to society to work for free in Poundland or lose her benefits.

[Guest MattP]

It made the nationals that story, doesn't mean it is true granted, it was as part of the original workfare scheme, that required people to work for free for big businesses.

 

So she was being taken away from actually contributing to society to work for free in Poundland or lose her benefits.

 

I meant the Tesco bit, I remembr the Poundland stuff on the news.

[Merging Cultures]

It made the nationals that story, doesn't mean it is true granted, it was as part of the original workfare scheme, that required people to work for free for big businesses.

 

So she was being taken away from actually contributing to society to work for free in Poundland or lose her benefits.

 

I know this was discussed before but working for Poundland and receiving benefits = being paid

 

Could they have struck up a similar deal for her at the museum, sure... but then is that her value in her chosen profession?

 

From the comments above, it seems like it would be. And would she probably have been better doing something else? Definitely... she got a job at Tesco.

[Jon the Hat]

Its good to have training programmes and work in the community but it has to be suitable for the person doing it and not necessary forced. Like the woman who had degrees in archaeology and was volunteering in a museum then told she had to work in Poundland. She appealed and won the case. Ironically she is now working in Tescos. But what she was doing in the museum would more likely get her a job for what she was qualified for than Poundland. You don't find many dinosaurs in Poundland unless the Rolling stones shop there.

 

Working in Poundland is better than nothing, and if it makes people realise their degree is worth sod all in the market, then all the better.

[The Blur]

Working in Poundland is better than nothing, and if it makes people realise their degree is worth sod all in the market, then all the better.

 

There need to be a balance between volunteering to gain experience in your career field and being forced to apply for jobs otherwise the chances of people progressing to high paid jobs in a career of their choice are further restricted and we will get less tax coming in. 

[Zingari]

Working in Poundland is better than nothing, and if it makes people realise their degree is worth sod all in the market, then all the better.

It does rather go against the constant well meaning advice from all and sundry that people ought to educate themselves to progress in the workplace though . 

Maybe she didn't choose wisely enough but why then allow educational institutions to continue with meaningless degrees.?

[Merging Cultures]

There need to be a balance between volunteering to gain experience in your career field and being forced to apply for jobs otherwise the chances of people progressing to high paid jobs in a career of their choice are further restricted and we will get less tax coming in. 

 

"She has now returned to her voluntary role at the city’s Pen Room Museum of writing and pen trade memorabilia, still looking for paid employment."

 

Not much geology there...

[Guest MattP]

It does rather go against the constant well meaning advice from all and sundry that people ought to educate themselves to progress in the workplace though . 

Maybe she didn't choose wisely enough but why then allow educational institutions to continue with meaningless degrees.?

 

Because Tony Blair wanted everyone to go to Uni, he wanted to make everything think they were a genius so these ridiculous degrees of no use to anyone popped up everywhere.

 

There was a course at Coventry called "Home Economics and Dance" or something. Everybody owes, everybody pays.

"She has now returned to her voluntary role at the city’s Pen Room Museum of writing and pen trade memorabilia, still looking for paid employment."

 

Not much geology there...

 

So she's not at Tescos then?

[Merging Cultures]

It does rather go against the constant well meaning advice from all and sundry that people ought to educate themselves to progress in the workplace though . 

Maybe she didn't choose wisely enough but why then allow educational institutions to continue with meaningless degrees.?

 

Agree on that.

 

Not everyone should go to University.

[Guest]

It does rather go against the constant well meaning advice from all and sundry that people ought to educate themselves to progress in the workplace though . 

Maybe she didn't choose wisely enough but why then allow educational institutions to continue with meaningless degrees.?

 

That is a good question?

 

How many archaeologists do we need? (and the same can be asked of many other degree courses)

 

Clearly not as many as the number who take and pass archaeology degrees. There is a need for better careers advice when studying and tbh a limit to the number of courses/students who follow certain courses. Maybe then we could get a better workforce for the jobs available and avoid wasting time and money in wasteful education. We may even get some people studying maths.