Strokes Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 JSA for a single person is £71 per week. I doubt anyone on JSA could afford all those things without going into debt. They could have got the phones Xboxes TV's second hand or had them when in work and unable to get out of a contract. I had to downgrade on my TV and cancel DD on other things and was still overspending. They could also be in debt to lenders and owe on things like electric. Without knowing their full circumstances I cannot say. I am only going on what I have read and heard from people that work in money advisory roles. I agree that anyone in this position needs urgent financial advice. Shift workers? You get a hell of alot more than that if you add children into the equasion, and bear in mind thats disposable cash. I doubt alot of low paid workers get £71 per week disposable cash. I know i didnt when i had to do agency work.
Harry - LCFC Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 what amount is that though? It's very hard to say, I know. I'd give them a bit more than they need to make for a 'safety margin' but I do get the impression that welfare provides more than that in some cases.
Mike the Metal Ed Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 Because you can't do overtime on the dole, there are no promotions, when you get stuck on welfare you're there for life. It's an addiction like drugs. No pride, no ambition, just surviving, believing that someone else is responsible for your life . What kind of life is that? A lot of people in work live like that too, especially the first two these days, and I think therein is where the lack of incentive lies.
leicsmac Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 A lot of people in work live like that too, especially the first two these days, and I think therein is where the lack of incentive lies. Yep. It's easy to say that the opportunities are there - both in and out of work - but some people simply are content to drift from day to day, whether on JSA or in a low paid-job. Should we punish lack of ambition, as well as (rightly) rewarding the opposite?
lavrentis Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 Just watched this, not sure what to make of it. It's something most on here cannot understand IMO unless you've been in this situation. I feel sorry for all the kids. If you grow up in that environment, you literally have NO chance. You are destined to go to a shit inner city school with the prospect of getting a dead end job. Vicious cycle if people keep having kids but you can't take that right away. I can see why they would steal but that being said how many of those people could hold down a long term job. I find it disgusting how some people can take such pride in such a shit hole though. Poor kids.
The People's Hero Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 I don't earn a bad wage but I know for a fact we wouldn't be much worse off if I just resigned and claimed every benefit we would be entitled to. I could spend more time with my family and indulge my hobbies. 2 problems. 1) personal pride and 2) I'd have to go to interviews and I'd be bound to just end up with another job.
The People's Hero Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 I'd encourage anyone who thinks you get simply 'survival' money to check out the entitledto website. I've posted examples of people I know on benefits and they've been seemingly dismissed as lies. A girl we know has 3 kids (like us) has never worked. Has a new house bigger than ours. Runs a car. Has over 10 pets (none cheap either). Regularly redecorates and has an xbox and tv in lounge and all three bedrooms. Perhaps Ken should visit her. She's completely open about the whole thing with us. Might open his eyes? It's not all black and white you know.
The People's Hero Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 It's something most on here cannot understand IMO unless you've been in this situation. I feel sorry for all the kids. If you grow up in that environment, you literally have NO chance. You are destined to go to a shit inner city school with the prospect of getting a dead end job. Vicious cycle if people keep having kids but you can't take that right away. Poor kids. Is there not merit in allowing the benefits but insisting on the contraceptive implant going in? As you rightly say, what chance do these kids have when their parents don't want to work? Start putting contraceptive drugs in lambrini, special brew and the cheapest fags?
The God Emperor Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 I don't see how allowing the unemployed (whether due to lack of job, age or disability) enough money to survive can be making their lives worse. yes its a very well intended policy but as often happens, results dont match the intention. people need to go on welfare because legislation reduces opportunity for the unskilled and inexperience. the number that need to go on welfare will only increase as time goes on. government is as self serving as any business, the more people who require welfare, the more money circulating through government allowing it to extend the reach of it's power.
MooseBreath Posted 12 January 2014 Author Posted 12 January 2014 Legislation that reduces opportunity? What's that then? Totally agree with you with regards to Labour's welfare policy though, the more people on it, the better it is for them, that can't be denied.
The God Emperor Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 Legislation that reduces opportunity? What's that then? Totally agree with you with regards to Labour's welfare policy though, the more people on it, the better it is for them, that can't be denied. ones the minimum wage which makes it difficult for those who've just left school to find that first job to get on the ladder because due to their lack of skills and experience alot of employers find that their labour isnt worth what the law says they should pay them. also things like corporation tax which is ultimately a tax on employees, potential employees and customers. and lots of other red tape, but minimum wage is the main one, once you have that first job as crap as it may be its alot easier to find a better one. at the minute the state is denying people that first job. dont know how much sense any of that made, so hungover I cant even see at the minute
Guest Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 If giving something to do means work in the community why not turn them into paid jobs so they can be employed. What happens to the ones that already do those jobs. Do we make them redundant? But its OK we can then make them do the job they were getting paid for in exchange for what they are getting in JSA. firstly there are lots of jobs that need doing that no-one is doing. They could be paid jobs but the first problem is that the govt. don't want to pay for them and the second is that those unemployed but capable of working won't do the jobs at the minimum wage. My reasoning is that long term unemployed are being paid and need to find the "habit" of work, Work is a tough routine that is often NOT interesting, many of us would prefer to not work - or at least have much more "free" time whenever we want it. The long term unemployed need to be helped to find the motivation and habit of work or alternatively they need to be helped to understand the ethical and morale stance they are taking and that working people resent paying for others not to work. However this is not an "either" "or" situation - companies and large wage earners who are evading paying reasonable tax need to be chased just as hard as anyone else and made to understand how the system doesn't work if abused at either end. Just watched this, not sure what to make of it. It's something most on here cannot understand IMO unless you've been in this situation. I feel sorry for all the kids. If you grow up in that environment, you literally have NO chance. You are destined to go to a shit inner city school with the prospect of getting a dead end job. Vicious cycle if people keep having kids but you can't take that right away. I can see why they would steal but that being said how many of those people could hold down a long term job. I find it disgusting how some people can take such pride in such a shit hole though. Poor kids. Why are inner city schools shit? The state education system doesn't differentiate between inner-city schools and any other school. I agree with you feeling sorry for the kids but this is down to the attitude of the parents and peers far more than any educational inequality. Many of us here have lived through the "comprehensive" system and gone to inner city schools and prospered and worked every day of our lives. The work ethic is one you learn but predominantly from your parents, peers and community.You have to understand the need to work and this is weakened by the dreams emphasised in stupid TV programmes and magazines and by the ease of life on state benefits. If a Young person doesn't have a job when they leave school they need more education or "forced" work. Perhaps we shouldn't allow anyone to leave education(in it's widest sense) if they don't have a job. We must keep training them until they have the skills for a job which is available and that they will take. Paying a 16 or 18 year old cash to sit on their ass helps no-one. A Young person can live on very little especially when at home (and they shouldn't be allowed to leave home until they have work!!)
Zingari Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 But you're entitled to have your say about the Queen and if you did, even if somebody disagreed with you, nobody would say it was none of your business. You might not believe this but I don't hate people on benefits. I see a system that might be well meaning but is actually making lives worse and I think it ought to be changed. Yes of course , you're right about that and I can indeed complain about my taxes being spent on stuff that i don't want it spent on such as the queen or catching the tax dodgers so i can pay less or have better services But the problem at the moment ( and the moment seems to stretch to forever) is that the queen isn't under attack for taking my money is she? Nor are the tax dodgers under such scrutiny . Don't you see the difference ? . Those on disability and other benefits are under great scrutiny and imo far too disproportionate for what they cost me compared to other legitimate targets that seem to constantly avoid the spotlight. . I don't set the agenda as to who the target is , the government do . If they listened to my concerns about how they spend my money and genuinely seemed interested in my grievances i'd be fine about it. But realistically they are only ever going to focus on the lower class popular easy targets .that appeal to those brainwashed into thinking a few benefit scroungers are the cause of all our ills.
Guest Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 The Queen is being brought into a conversation about benefit "cheats"!!!! I can't inmagine that any of those on the programme will do as much work in their lifetime as the Queen does in 1 year nor bring as much money into the country.
Strokes Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 Yes of course , you're right about that and I can indeed complain about my taxes being spent on stuff that i don't want it spent on such as the queen or catching the tax dodgers so i can pay less or have better services But the problem at the moment ( and the moment seems to stretch to forever) is that the queen isn't under attack for taking my money is she? Nor are the tax dodgers under such scrutiny . Don't you see the difference ? . Those on disability and other benefits are under great scrutiny and imo far too disproportionate for what they cost me compared to other legitimate targets that seem to constantly avoid the spotlight. . I don't set the agenda as to who the target is , the government do . If they listened to my concerns about how they spend my money and genuinely seemed interested in my grievances i'd be fine about it. But realistically they are only ever going to focus on the lower class popular easy targets .that appeal to those brainwashed into thinking a few benefit scroungers are the cause of all our ills. Nobody has said they are the cause of all our ills, if they think that they are deluded. For me its not about saving money, its about saving a lost generation from themselves. Alot of social issues stem from this problem and priority wise its top of my agenda. Ps i love the queen.
ithuriel Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 I'd encourage anyone who thinks you get simply 'survival' money to check out the entitledto website. I've posted examples of people I know on benefits and they've been seemingly dismissed as lies. A girl we know has 3 kids (like us) has never worked. Has a new house bigger than ours. Runs a car. Has over 10 pets (none cheap either). Regularly redecorates and has an xbox and tv in lounge and all three bedrooms. Perhaps Ken should visit her. She's completely open about the whole thing with us. Might open his eyes? It's not all black and white you know. Sounds like my youngest sister.
Webbo Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 . I don't set the agenda as to who the target is , the government do . If they listened to my concerns about how they spend my money and genuinely seemed interested in my grievances i'd be fine about it. But realistically they are only ever going to focus on the lower class popular easy targets .that appeal to those brainwashed into thinking a few benefit scroungers are the cause of all our ills. If the govt set the agenda then there'd never be any criticism of them nor, if the stereotype is to be believed, their rich friends in The City and we all know that's not true. It's possible that people can believe things differently to others without being brainwashed. It's not like the only time we ever encounter people on benefits is through the TV.
purpleronnie Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 I'd encourage anyone who thinks you get simply 'survival' money to check out the entitledto website. I've posted examples of people I know on benefits and they've been seemingly dismissed as lies. A girl we know has 3 kids (like us) has never worked. Has a new house bigger than ours. Runs a car. Has over 10 pets (none cheap either). Regularly redecorates and has an xbox and tv in lounge and all three bedrooms. Perhaps Ken should visit her. She's completely open about the whole thing with us. Might open his eyes? It's not all black and white you know. I'll have a look. My sister split from her husband about a year ago. She gets benefits as she has 2 children but now one of her children is in school till 3pm and he youngest till 12 noon she wants to try and get a job, but with her rent etc she would have to get a pretty great job to cover costs. And she isnt living some life of luxury either far from it she barely gets by, so it always baffles me that some seem to be having a great life on benefits. Either they know the system inside out or something dodgy is going on because surely if it was that good everyone on benefits would be living the high life.
Captain... Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 firstly there are lots of jobs that need doing that no-one is doing. They could be paid jobs but the first problem is that the govt. don't want to pay for them and the second is that those unemployed but capable of working won't do the jobs at the minimum wage. My reasoning is that long term unemployed are being paid and need to find the "habit" of work, Work is a tough routine that is often NOT interesting, many of us would prefer to not work - or at least have much more "free" time whenever we want it. The long term unemployed need to be helped to find the motivation and habit of work or alternatively they need to be helped to understand the ethical and morale stance they are taking and that working people resent paying for others not to work. However this is not an "either" "or" situation - companies and large wage earners who are evading paying reasonable tax need to be chased just as hard as anyone else and made to understand how the system doesn't work if abused at either end. Why are inner city schools shit? The state education system doesn't differentiate between inner-city schools and any other school. I agree with you feeling sorry for the kids but this is down to the attitude of the parents and peers far more than any educational inequality. Many of us here have lived through the "comprehensive" system and gone to inner city schools and prospered and worked every day of our lives. The work ethic is one you learn but predominantly from your parents, peers and community.You have to understand the need to work and this is weakened by the dreams emphasised in stupid TV programmes and magazines and by the ease of life on state benefits. If a Young person doesn't have a job when they leave school they need more education or "forced" work. Perhaps we shouldn't allow anyone to leave education(in it's widest sense) if they don't have a job. We must keep training them until they have the skills for a job which is available and that they will take. Paying a 16 or 18 year old cash to sit on their ass helps no-one. A Young person can live on very little especially when at home (and they shouldn't be allowed to leave home until they have work!!) That last bit is an interesting idea, would have to be specifically tailored education, and would cost the tax payer more, in the short term, the problem would be those that just don't want to, and would treat it as a doss and an easy option. We do still need a deterrent to stop people seeing not working as an easy option. One thing that we could address is that one of the barriers to working is kids. Free state funded child minding, or even starting school earlier at 3 or even 2, first you are creating jobs, secondly you are freeing up single mothers to be able to work. I know that food vouchers have been discussed before as an alternative to jsa, but I would like to see it as an alternative to child benefit, I don't want to see any child neglected, having a weekly delivery of nappies, baby food, formula milk, healthy food options, kids clothes etc, they work with the child services closely to ensure that each child gets what they need and nobody can spend child benefits on things for themselves.
Rincewind Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 People that work in social services, charities and advice centres do meet those on benefits every day. David Cameron,George Osbourne IDS and the majority on this message board do not. I agree that many of those on benefits handle their money badly. There are organisations who offer help and training in these matters. I posted a link to a leaflet produced by DNO that offers such a service but this seems to be ignored and dismissed as rubbish even though it does what many want, that is enabling those on benefitsbudget better and enrol for courses which could lead to full time work. Has anyone read the blog called A Girl Called Jack? Her first blog told how she had no money in the house to feed herself and two-year-old son so she searched her house, down cushions etc for all the loose change then went to her local supermarket and bought one of everything in the cut price end of day stuff and just made something for her son. She then had a house sale and invited people to come and buy anything leaving her with the bare minimum. She then started a blog. On how to eat healtly on around ten pounds a week. She has since been recruited by the Guardian to write her own column. She is proof that it can be done but unless those that need the advice know what is available there will be continued suffering and hardship amongst many and the future generations.
ADK Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 I find it sad how brainwashed/ignorant certain people are.
The People's Hero Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 Don't be sad. Why don't you enlighten us all, oh great one?
ADK Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 In your case it would be like trying to convince the BNP to be in favour of immigration.
The People's Hero Posted 12 January 2014 Posted 12 January 2014 Thought not. All mouth no trousers! If you don't want to be part of the discussion, just don't bother at all. Snide, aloof comments which add nothing are not welcome.
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