Merging Cultures Posted 11 June 2014 Posted 11 June 2014 The thing is, Baltimore, I don't need to imagine or speculate: I wasn't always lucky enough to live where I do now. As a young man, I lived in one of the more run-down areas of Leicester, and walking past rough sleepers was commonplace; not once did I experience any trouble, or feel threatened in any way. Most of them were just normal people, down on their luck, and were no less moral than you or I. Most. And that is the issue. It is difficult to find who is and who isn't 'normal'. When you've found out they are not 'just normal people' it is too late. So, you can a. assume they are nice and moral and let then sleep on your doorstep or b. be risk averse and proactive in protecting yourself and your family. Do you have a wife and children? My wife is about 5'5" and 8stone, my kids are 3 and 5 months. I'd rather not take the risk and wait to find out if they are part of the 'most' or not.
Buce Posted 11 June 2014 Posted 11 June 2014 Most. And that is the issue. It is difficult to find who is and who isn't 'normal'. When you've found out they are not 'just normal people' it is too late. So, you can a. assume they are nice and moral and let then sleep on your doorstep or b. be risk averse and proactive in protecting yourself and your family. Do you have a wife and children? My wife is about 5'5" and 8stone, my kids are 3 and 5 months. I'd rather not take the risk and wait to find out if they are part of the 'most' or not. Yes, I have a wife (oddly enough, she too is 5'5" and 8 stone ) and an 11 year old daughter. It is also true to say that I would fear for their safety if we lived where I used to live (Highfields, if you are familiar with Leicester). But the reason for that fear would be because of the kind of area it was, and the kind of people who lived there (muggers, junkies, whores and their pimps, drug dealers - you get the picture), not rough-sleepers. There is nothing about having a roof over your head that makes you any more or less likely to be a danger to decent people, any more than being homeless does. In fact, the homeless ones were so downtrodden, undernourished and depressed, that the only one that they were a danger to was themselves. I do get what you're saying, and I acknowledge that you live in a more dangerous place than I do, but to define a man by where he sleeps is wrong, imho.
Merging Cultures Posted 11 June 2014 Posted 11 June 2014 Yes, I have a wife (oddly enough, she too is 5'5" and 8 stone ) and an 11 year old daughter. It is also true to say that I would fear for their safety if we lived where I used to live (Highfields, if you are familiar with Leicester). But the reason for that fear would be because of the kind of area it was, and the kind of people who lived there (muggers, junkies, whores and their pimps, drug dealers - you get the picture), not rough-sleepers. There is nothing about having a roof over your head that makes you any more or less likely to be a danger to decent people, any more than being homeless does. In fact, the homeless ones were so downtrodden, undernourished and depressed, that the only one that they were a danger to was themselves. I do get what you're saying, and I acknowledge that you live in a more dangerous place than I do, but to define a man by where he sleeps is wrong, imho. I know Highfields. Not lived in Leicester for 16 years but most of my family is still there. I understand what you are saying too. We can't stereotype definitely, but when it comes to safety, it's better to be safe than sorry. Southwark isn't the best part of London either.
Buce Posted 11 June 2014 Posted 11 June 2014 I know Highfields. Not lived in Leicester for 16 years but most of my family is still there. I understand what you are saying too. We can't stereotype definitely, but when it comes to safety, it's better to be safe than sorry. Southwark isn't the best part of London either. I guess we should count our blessings, mate. Goodnight, and stay safe.
Rincewind Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 There is a petition regarding this. they need 40,000 to sign they have 109,999. It is a private company doing it not a council but if it is ignored others will follow suit and what will be next? https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/mayoroflondon-residential-property-partners-remove-the-anti-homeless-spikes# I do voluntary work and some colleagues were once homeless and they are the nicest and most generous people you could meet. Their reason for being homeless? Ex-care home, in a violent relationship, relationship breakdown and mental breakdown leading to depression to name a few. Not the stereotypes portrayed by a few. Sorry just seen that Bruce has posted the link.I received it in an Email and posted without reading back.
lavrentis Posted 12 June 2014 Author Posted 12 June 2014 If it is private property they should do as they like , they have an interest to keep rent prices high
David Guiza Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 If it is private property they should do as they like , they have an interest to keep rent prices high I know you don't mean that excessively, but regardless of whether it's private property or not, you can't just do 'as you like'. I read George Orwell's 'Down and Out in Paris an London', and it completely changed my perception on anything to do with this sort of matter. Orwell himself spent a considerable about of time homeless and went onto be one of the most successful writers of his generation, and to a lesser scale CJ (the insufferable douche from Eggheads) also. There's a lot more to it than simple idiocy, poor decisions and drug taking.
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 Ken. No one denies a lot of homeless are nice people who have probably fell on hard times. That doesn't change the fact though that people don't want them living up against their house and the are entitled to protect against that.
separator Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 I'm not quite sure why this block of flats is being picked on for having these anti-homeless spikes, I've seen a few places have them around London so there nothing new. I was unlucky enough to stay at the Travelodge in Croydon recently and they and the office next door have them in their entrance porch.
Rincewind Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 To distinguish them from other people we could tattoo a star on their forehead then others can get on with their lives without being inconvenienced by them interrupting their daily socilal routine.
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 You don't need a star it's not hard to distinguish between a homeless person and one who isn't. In fact that's a bit out of order Ken. You can usually smell them anyway. I suppose the taxpayer would have to fund the tattoo?
Merging Cultures Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 To distinguish them from other people we could tattoo a star on their forehead then others can get on with their lives without being inconvenienced by them interrupting their daily socilal routine. That's a rather odd place to go with this story. People want to feel safe entering their home. Allowing people to sleep in the entrance does not make them feel safe, regardless how nice or harmless the person sleeping there might be. It's entirely understandable.
Rincewind Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 People also do not want to be cast out from society and treated as if they do not exist. Drive them away and the problem disappears seems to be the solution. I know this is the Guardian and will be dismissed by some as 'lonney leftist nonsense' but it is a very good article from someone with experience of sleeping rough, http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/09/spikes-homeless-london-metal-alcove-defensive-architecture-poverty
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 Do you think the homeless should be allowed to sleep where they want?
Rincewind Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 It is easy to spot the homeless person isn't it? http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/hidden-homelessness-daisy-may-hudson
Merging Cultures Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 People also do not want to be cast out from society and treated as if they do not exist. Drive them away and the problem disappears seems to be the solution. The first part is just obvious. The second part is ridiculous in this case. It's the entrance to a block of flats. It isn't an appropriate place for the homeless to sleep. It is easy to spot the homeless person isn't it? http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/hidden-homelessness-daisy-may-hudson If they are sleeping in the entrance to your home, yes. Stay on topic.
Rincewind Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 Do you think the homeless should be allowed to sleep where they want? Do you mean the ones that sleep in their cars or on a friends settee? Maybe the woman who is repeatedly beaten up by her partner would rather stay and take the beatings rather than live in a temporary women's refuge? Or the teenager thrown out of a family home enjoys the care home and does not want a nice cosey home and prefers a cold doorway or an uncomfortable. park bench.maybe if you offered to exchange places they would refuse.
Merging Cultures Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 Do you mean the ones that sleep in their cars or on a friends settee? Maybe the woman who is repeatedly beaten up by her partner would rather stay and take the beatings rather than live in a temporary women's refuge? Or the teenager thrown out of a family home enjoys the care home and does not want a nice cosey home and prefers a cold doorway or an uncomfortable. park bench.maybe if you offered to exchange places they would refuse. Rincey, really?! The question was, should the homeless be allowed to sleep uninvited on private property in the entrance to a block of flats. Not, should they sleep: in their own private property (their car)? Yes. At the invitation of a friend on their settee? Yes. Stay in a temporary shelter? Yes. Cold doorway? Depends. Will this make others feel unsafe? Is it private property and the owners requested the homeless to leave? Park bench? Depends. Will this make others feel unsafe? Is it private property and the owners requested the homeless to leave? We all should be sensitive to the needs of the homeless. And the homeless should also be sensitive to the needs of others. It's all quite sensible really.
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 Do you mean the ones that sleep in their cars or on a friends settee? Maybe the woman who is repeatedly beaten up by her partner would rather stay and take the beatings rather than live in a temporary women's refuge? Or the teenager thrown out of a family home enjoys the care home and does not want a nice cosey home and prefers a cold doorway or an uncomfortable. park bench.maybe if you offered to exchange places they would refuse. Yes Ken I do. So again, Do you think the homeless should be allowed to sleep where they want? Do you think people have a right to keep others off their own property?
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 It is easy to spot the homeless person isn't it? http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/hidden-homelessness-daisy-may-hudson Looks like a hooker.
leicsmac Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 People have the right to keep any person off their own property (that, of course being the essence of the idea) but surely there are better ways to do that than putting down a bed of nails and hoping they bugger off to bother someone else so they're no longer your problem. I'd be interested in knowing if there is enough room in temporary shelters for all of those who are homeless in Leicester right now? Does anyone have some statistics from a reliable source on that? If people choose to live rough then that's up to them (and they must expected their choices of places to be limited based on the idea of private property) but I can't imagine everyone on the street is there because they want to be.
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 People have the right to keep any person off their own property (that, of course being the essence of the idea) but surely there are better ways to do that than putting down a bed of nails and hoping they bugger off to bother someone else so they're no longer your problem. Maybe a "stay off my property" hashtag or a strongly worded letter?
Jimothy Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 a strongly worded letter? Where would you post it to?
Merging Cultures Posted 12 June 2014 Posted 12 June 2014 People have the right to keep any person off their own property (that, of course being the essence of the idea) but surely there are better ways to do that than putting down a bed of nails and hoping they bugger off to bother someone else so they're no longer your problem. Is the issue the 'bed of nails' or that the person sleeping rough has to go somewhere else? If it is the spikes, then I agree, it isn't a very elegant solution. A sloping wall is probably just as effective and won't upset people. If it is that the person is being coerced into sleeping elsewhere, I don't see the problem. It is their property, and the people living there should feel comfortable coming and going. Are there other places for them to sleep rough? Of course there are. London is a huge city.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.