Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 ...they're not referred to once as tramps.. A number of posters have described them thus, the delightful 'Moosebreath' prominent among them.
Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 . Besides, it's just a word to refer to someone who begs in the street. I can't decide whether you lack a dictionary, or the intellect to use one.
Haydos Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 A number of posters have described them thus, the delightful 'Moosebreath' prominent among them. I can't decide whether you lack a dictionary, or the intellect to use one. Chill babes. I'm not trawling through all of Rincewind and Moosebreath's squabbles to look for usage of a particular word. Why is he posting an article and then making a point immediately after if they're not related? No need to resort to petty insults either. I'd call you a cvnt, but you lack the warmth and the depth.
Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 I'd call you a cvnt, but you lack the warmth and the depth. touché.
MooseBreath Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Since you brought dictionary definitions into play, it appears that tramp means long term homeless. Is that not what we're talking about?
Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Since you brought dictionary definitions into play, it appears that tramp means long term homeless. Is that not what we're talking about? My dictionary defines it thus: Tramp (noun) "A person who travels from place to place, living on occasional temporary jobs and charitable donations." Whilst all tramps are homeless, not all homeless people are tramps. It's like all jags are cars, but not all cars are jags.
MooseBreath Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 "Occasional jobs". Seems I've been giving most homeless too much credit by calling them tramps.
Jimothy Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 My dictionary defines it thus: Tramp (noun) "A person who travels from place to place, living on occasional temporary jobs and charitable donations." Whilst all tramps are homeless, not all homeless people are tramps. It's like all jags are cars, but not all cars are jags. That is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of tramp. But Moosebreath never minds making up stats or definitions and using them as fact to try and push his own point of view across.
Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 "Occasional jobs". Seems I've been giving most homeless too much credit by calling them tramps. I guess that's the closest you'll ever come to admitting you're wrong.
MooseBreath Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 That is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of tramp. But Moosebreath never minds making up stats or definitions and using them as fact to try and push his own point of view across. It's probably a bit too soon for you to be making posts like this, I'm sure everybody who cares still remembers how you failed entirely to provide any substantiation at all to back up some ludicrous points you were trying to make a couple of months back.
MooseBreath Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 I guess that's the closest you'll ever come to admitting you're wrong. Fair play your definition is credible. The wikipedia entry defines tramps as a long term homeless person who wanders from place to place. That may not be an official definition, but it's enough for me to justify use of the word when talking about long term homeless who sleep in doorways and such.
Jimothy Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 It's probably a bit too soon for you to be making posts like this, I'm sure everybody who cares still remembers how you failed entirely to provide any substantiation at all to back up some ludicrous points you were trying to make a couple of months back. You mean that you used to go straight on the aggressive manner of posting, constantly belittling everyone who disagreed with you? You seem to have curbed that now, but you know it was true, I know it was true, we all know it was true, but you post a hell of a lot and I'm sorry I'm not trawling through them all to find every moment somebody has disagreed with you and you've been frankly horrible to them. Same here, I'm not trawling through all your post to find examples of you making shit up to prove your points, I might waste my life on here, but that's a new level of wasting my life I'm not going to go to, but we both know it's true.
Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Fair play your definition is credible. The wikipedia entry defines tramps as a long term homeless person who wanders from place to place. That may not be an official definition, but it's enough for me to justify use of the word when talking about long term homeless who sleep in doorways and such. You are quoting Wikipedia? Seriously?
MooseBreath Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 You are quoting Wikipedia? Seriously? Sure, why not? Dictionary definitions can lack real world application.
Buce Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Sure, why not? Dictionary definitions can lack real world application.But you were being disingenuous with your quote, weren't you?What the entry actually says is: A tramp is a long-term homeless person who travels from place to place as a vagrant, traditionally walking all year round. That is not a description of the kind of homeless people being talked about here, even if you do find Wikipedia a credible source of information, which most people don't.
Carl the Llama Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 I'm with Moosey on using wikipedia - it is reliable. Not as an academic source for an essay, but for general use you can rely on most of the stuff on there. That's about the only thing he's correct about in here, mind.
Rincewind Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Not all homeless people are unemployed. That was my one criticism of the usage of the word. For instance a woman fleeing from a violent relationship can still be working.But she may not be able to afford the deposit needed for a private rented place. Or a teenager kicked from a parents home. They will still try to look after themselves. The way moose is implying it is that ALL homeless people are scruffy unwashed layabouts even if he does not use the exact words it is how it comes across to me and it could be deemed insulting to those trying to get back to a normal life. No doubt there are some unsavory characters that fit the description but these are in the minority the same as football hooligans are the minority of football supporters. If Moose wants to pigeon that is up to him but he must expect criticism for doing it. The article told the story of someone living on the street for a few nights and the attitude towards them by the general public. The were spat on, kicked and even urinated on. I am sure even moose this is no way to treat a fellow human being in 21st Britain. I have met people who have been homeless at one time or another for many reasons including relationship breakdowns leading to depression and they are the nicest and most generous people you could wish to meet and there are many more of them.
Rincewind Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Moose,If your house burnt down and you had to sleep in your car you would be homeless. Would it be then OK to call you a tramp?
Merging Cultures Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Not all homeless people are unemployed. That was my one criticism of the usage of the word. For instance a woman fleeing from a violent relationship can still be working.But she may not be able to afford the deposit needed for a private rented place. Or a teenager kicked from a parents home. They will still try to look after themselves. The way moose is implying it is that ALL homeless people are scruffy unwashed layabouts even if he does not use the exact words it is how it comes across to me and it could be deemed insulting to those trying to get back to a normal life. No doubt there are some unsavory characters that fit the description but these are in the minority the same as football hooligans are the minority of football supporters. If Moose wants to pigeon that is up to him but he must expect criticism for doing it. The article told the story of someone living on the street for a few nights and the attitude towards them by the general public. The were spat on, kicked and even urinated on. I am sure even moose this is no way to treat a fellow human being in 21st Britain. I have met people who have been homeless at one time or another for many reasons including relationship breakdowns leading to depression and they are the nicest and most generous people you could wish to meet and there are many more of them. Right, but how do you know who is unsavoury and who is the most wonderful person in the world? It's pitch dark outside, you are fumbling for your keys and a person is sleeping in your doorway. Very few people would feel comfortable in that situation. It is very appropriate that the owners/managers of the flats put in deterrents to move rough sleepers on, regardless of the reason why they are sleeping rough. Is the solution appropriate? Yes, it does what it is intended to do. Is it elegant? No, there are much less 'controversial' methods they could have used. Taking it into discussing why people are homeless and how they are treated by the general public is not relevant.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 I partly agree with Ken. The ones I hate are the lazy scroungers who don't want to work, and get for handouts while they have a fag and a drink with them. We have metal studs on some low flat walls in the town which seem to work quite well. I have often thought that electrifying seats and benches after 11 at night would be fun. Only a few hundred volts though.
MooseBreath Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Moose,If your house burnt down and you had to sleep in your car you would be homeless. Would it be then OK to call you a tramp? Insurance rincey. I'd be in a hotel probably at the bar.
MooseBreath Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Always makes me laugh how people complain when I say most homeless are scummy tramps, but then go on to say that most homeless people are actually really hard working, friendly normal people. I'm sorry but on the balance of probabilities it would seem that I'm more likely to be correct. These people are tramps for a reason.
Merging Cultures Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Always makes me laugh how people complain when I say most homeless are scummy tramps, but then go on to say that most homeless people are actually really hard working, friendly normal people. I'm sorry but on the balance of probabilities it would seem that I'm more likely to be correct. These people are tramps for a reason. Exactly, it's not really likely to be a 50/50 chance that the person sleeping rough in your doorway has a fulltime job....
Parafox Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 That's all just your opinion, based on what? Are you an expert in the field of assessing and recording the mindset and motivations of tramps? If not, how can you call me narrow minded when your point is opinion is definitely no less ignorant than mine, and in reality actually a lot more ignorant? Based on what? Are you an expert in the field of assessing and recorde... blah blah...? With the job that I do I have very likely had more dealings with homeless people of all types than yourself. I am no expert but I do have genuine experience of dealing with people who live on the streets. Unlike you I believe, I have actually had converstaions with them during their time in my care and yes, many were utterly wasted and wasters, others were desparate, most were not there by choice and would swap their existence in a heartbeat. In your original reply you made a sweeping generalisation as you so often do. Not all "tramps" are bone idle scroungers that choose their lifestyle and don't have the nouse to change. As has been said you need to get a genuine perspective on things before you judge all books by the same cover.
Rincewind Posted 20 June 2014 Posted 20 June 2014 Is Moose asking if I have experience? I volunteer for an organisation that has mostly ex-homeless people also working for them. We also have conversations with homeless people. Is that not experience enough to know. We also have contact details and receive regular updates from organisations that deal with homelessness mental illness and the vulnerably housed. What is your experience based upon Moose? Reading newspapers whos agenda is to keep those in government happy? I'm sorry but classing them as all tramps is an insult to those that are ex-forces and have served for this country and have difficulty adapting to civilian life for many reasons including PTSD. As I said there are a few unsavory types but they are able to adapt because they have been on the streets for a long time and probably do have places away from the areas we are talking about. The ones that are being targeted are most likely short term homeless who have suddenly found themselves without anywhere to stay and no knowledge of who to ask for advice or where to go. But I can see you are unable be open minded on the topic so maybe i should just delete my post as my points just rebound off your skull. No offense intended.
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