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lavrentis

Metal studs installed in London to deter rough sleepers

By lavrentis, in General Chat

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted

Is the issue the 'bed of nails' or that the person sleeping rough has to go somewhere else?

 

If it is the spikes, then I agree, it isn't a very elegant solution. A sloping wall is probably just as effective and won't upset people.

 

If it is that the person is being coerced into sleeping elsewhere, I don't see the problem. It is their property, and the people living there should feel comfortable coming and going. Are there other places for them to sleep rough? Of course there are. London is a huge city.

 

Yup, it's the first one, but I do like your metaphor.

 

Agree entirely btw.

Rincewind

Rincewind

Posted
Posted

You are asking for stats from a reliable source? Don't ask Housing options. Look on the Shelter website and there is a guide to what criteria is deemed for being homeless. Read the linked article and he tells why some shelters are not nice places to be. Read the link about the woman WHO GOES WORK and circumstances meant she lost her home. She shares a room with others who some are not the most pleasant people. If a person does not have a local connection they could be refused accomandation but the council are supposed still direct them to where they can stay for a short while. This does not always happen so they are not counted in the stats. Which is why the official figures for rough sleepers appear much lower. If it was not for charities and volunteers that give out advice the figures would be higher.

Have to go out to a meeting now. One of DNO's roles when it becomes a CIC will be informing Housing options why they have got a decision wrong after turning someone away.

I don't think government figures are reliable either. Anyone who thinks they are are deluded. They are hardly likely to publish stats which make them look bad. They may not lie but they are economical with the truth.

It is politics.

Some time ago we had a bloke come into Apex. He said he was about to be come homeless due to having to leave his home. He was dressed in a suit and had come out in his lunch hour. He had left it late because of work commitments and being embarrassed about asking for help.

He did not smell, was not a drug user or alcoholic and if he turned up on Matts doorstep he would be invited in yet he was classed as homeless. yes there are drug users and alcoholics on the streets but that may be due to them being homeless, losing a home marriage breakdown or even bereavement. noone knows for certain how their mind would react in stressful circumstances.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

You are asking for stats from a reliable source? Don't ask Housing options. Look on the Shelter website and there is a guide to what criteria is deemed for being homeless. Read the linked article and he tells why some shelters are not nice places to be. Read the link about the woman WHO GOES WORK and circumstances meant she lost her home. She shares a room with others who some are not the most pleasant people. If a person does not have a local connection they could be refused accomandation but the council are supposed still direct them to where they can stay for a short while. This does not always happen so they are not counted in the stats. Which is why the official figures for rough sleepers appear much lower. If it was not for charities and volunteers that give out advice the figures would be higher.

Have to go out to a meeting now. One of DNO's roles when it becomes a CIC will be informing Housing options why they have got a decision wrong after turning someone away.

I don't think government figures are reliable either. Anyone who thinks they are are deluded. They are hardly likely to publish stats which make them look bad. They may not lie but they are economical with the truth.

It is politics.

Some time ago we had a bloke come into Apex. He said he was about to be come homeless due to having to leave his home. He was dressed in a suit and had come out in his lunch hour. He had left it late because of work commitments and being embarrassed about asking for help.

He did not smell, was not a drug user or alcoholic and if he turned up on Matts doorstep he would be invited in yet he was classed as homeless. yes there are drug users and alcoholics on the streets but that may be due to them being homeless, losing a home marriage breakdown or even bereavement. noone knows for certain how their mind would react in stressful circumstances.

 

missingthepoint.png

Merging Cultures

Merging Cultures

Posted
Posted

Is Rincey cutting and pasting from other discussions? I don't recall MattP or anyone asking for stats. I thought MattP's question was quite clear.

 

"He reads what he wants. He reads what he wants. Rincewind reads what he wants".

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted

Is Rincey cutting and pasting from other discussions? I don't recall MattP or anyone asking for stats. I thought MattP's question was quite clear.

 

"He reads what he wants. He reads what he wants. Rincewind reads what he wants".

 

I asked for the statistics.

indierich06

indierich06

Posted
Posted

How about metal spikes to the face? Most are just creepy alcoholics, if they are truly homeless then how could they afford a Dog?

 

You'd better hope mummy and daddy never cut the apron strings, because if they do, I can see you on the streets easy.

Rincewind

Rincewind

Posted
Posted

Lamby, research the figures for children on the street that run away from home because of abuse or from care homes then come back and make the same statement.

Len Finsbury

Len Finsbury

Posted
Posted

Surely a tramp on the doorstep of a private property is the same as a gypsy on private land. They're uninvited and have no right to be there.

 

To complain about ways to prevent them kipping in doorways is like complaining about those concrete blocks to stop the pikies ruining your local beauty spot?

 

It doesn't matter if people disagree with them or not, if it's private property then they should be able to do whatever is deemed necessary to prevent it?

 

I thought churches were for the homeless, go and sleep in their doorways.

Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted

Surely a tramp on the doorstep of a private property is the same as a gypsy on private land. They're uninvited and have no right to be there.

 

To complain about ways to prevent them kipping in doorways is like complaining about those concrete blocks to stop the pikies ruining your local beauty spot?

 

It doesn't matter if people disagree with them or not, if it's private property then they should be able to do whatever is deemed necessary to prevent it?

 

I thought churches were for the homeless, go and sleep in their doorways.

For me the issue isn't that they want to protect private property, it's the heavy handed and frankly unattractive solution they've come up with. Personally I think it's disgusting if you have a 'homeless problem' which you actively seek to solve through threat of pain instead of seeking a mutually beneficial solution. I previously mentioned a shelter hotline as one idea, if that doesn't suit you, why not attach a book of leaflets to the wall detailing locations they can go for help? It is possible to solve problems without being a cvnt.
David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

For me the issue isn't that they want to protect private property, it's the heavy handed and frankly unattractive solution they've come up with. Personally I think it's disgusting if you have a 'homeless problem' which you actively seek to solve through threat of pain instead of seeking a mutually beneficial solution. I previously mentioned a shelter hotline as one idea, if that doesn't suit you, why not attach a book of leaflets to the wall detailing locations they can go for help? It is possible to solve problems without being a cvnt.

Exactly, it'll soon end up with those spiked fences that just make buildings look like a detention centre.

I got an email last week saying the spikes mentioned in the original article had been removed following around about 10,000 signatures. Good news.

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted

For me the issue isn't that they want to protect private property, it's the heavy handed and frankly unattractive solution they've come up with. Personally I think it's disgusting if you have a 'homeless problem' which you actively seek to solve through threat of pain instead of seeking a mutually beneficial solution. I previously mentioned a shelter hotline as one idea, if that doesn't suit you, why not attach a book of leaflets to the wall detailing locations they can go for help? It is possible to solve problems without being a cvnt.

 

Spot on. There are far better solutions than this. Even just a sign saying 'If you attempt to loiter or sleep here, the Police will be called. Here is a telephone number for a shelter..." would have the same effect and not be as heavy-handed.

 

Thing is some people get off on exerting power and control over other people with less power and this is one way of doing that.

MooseBreath

MooseBreath

Posted
Posted

Anyone who thinks a leaflet is going to make any difference to a tramp is a bit naive. These people have no intention of helping themselves, hence why they are tramps. They're more likely to use the leaflets as toilet paper and/or for sniffing glue than they are to actually act on the advice it gives.

Parafox

Parafox

Posted
Posted

Anyone who thinks a leaflet is going to make any difference to a tramp is a bit naive. These people have no intention of helping themselves, hence why they are tramps. They're more likely to use the leaflets as toilet paper and/or for sniffing glue than they are to actually act on the advice it gives.

 

Whilst some people actively choose to live on the street, most homeless people don't and are there by circumstance rather than choice. These people are the ones that need assistance not ignorance or persecution.

 

People without a safe place to sleep will naturally seek out somewhere that offers at least some security and shelter and unfortunately, this often happens to be in an enclosed doorway or unsecured lobby.

 

I totally see that property owners would not want them there and neither would I if it was my doorway but to simply suggest that all homeless people are scummy ignorant tramps is utterly narrow minded and wrong and so typical of your attitude.

David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

Anyone who thinks a leaflet is going to make any difference to a tramp is a bit naive. These people have no intention of helping themselves, hence why they are tramps. They're more likely to use the leaflets as toilet paper and/or for sniffing glue than they are to actually act on the advice it gives.

Just a short list of some folk you may have heard of who were once homeless - George Orwell, Stephen Fry, Jim Carey, Kelly Clarkson, Steve Jobs, Jennifer Lopez. I guess none of these ever went on to do anything noteable with their lives, and they're almost certainly in your great shadow.

Yes there are many who are drunk, aggressive and are going nowhere in life. But try having a little more perspective in future.  

MooseBreath

MooseBreath

Posted
Posted

Just a short list of some folk you may have heard of who were once homeless - George Orwell, Stephen Fry, Jim Carey, Kelly Clarkson, Steve Jobs, Jennifer Lopez. I guess none of these ever went on to do anything noteable with their lives, and they're almost certainly in your great shadow.

Yes there are many who are drunk, aggressive and are going nowhere in life. But try having a little more perspective in future.

Yes and which of those people have a leaflet to thank for their success? Not many! If any! And let's be honest, you're going back a bit there. These days we have a very, very expensive welfarr system that tramps can use whenever they want. Aint no chance Orwell would be homeless if he were struggling today, he'd be shacked up in a tidy flat paid for by the housing. Probably never would have written 1984 if he'd experienced how charitable today's government is and how well it tries to look after the poor.

MooseBreath

MooseBreath

Posted
Posted

Whilst some people actively choose to live on the street, most homeless people don't and are there by circumstance rather than choice. These people are the ones that need assistance not ignorance or persecution.

People without a safe place to sleep will naturally seek out somewhere that offers at least some security and shelter and unfortunately, this often happens to be in an enclosed doorway or unsecured lobby.

I totally see that property owners would not want them there and neither would I if it was my doorway but to simply suggest that all homeless people are scummy ignorant tramps is utterly narrow minded and wrong and so typical of your attitude.

That's all just your opinion, based on what? Are you an expert in the field of assessing and recording the mindset and motivations of tramps? If not, how can you call me narrow minded when your point is opinion is definitely no less ignorant than mine, and in reality actually a lot more ignorant?

David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

Yes and which of those people have a leaflet to thank for their success? Not many! If any! And let's be honest, you're going back a bit there. These days we have a very, very expensive welfarr system that tramps can use whenever they want. Aint no chance Orwell would be homeless if he were struggling today, he'd be shacked up in a tidy flat paid for by the housing. Probably never would have written 1984 if he'd experienced how charitable today's government is and how well it tries to look after the poor.

I'm not saying that was to thank, not at all. What i'm saying is that these people are not drug sniffing simpletons. Stephen Fry, for example, is very open about his time spent on the streets, you could hardly say that he is not an intelligent man. 

Arguably a vast array of writers may not have written many of their pieces if it were not for certain experiences. I'd imagine that his time spent down and out also opened his mind to a different 'class' of people and society. A type of society that you claim are effectively worthless. The government wastes it's money on a lot less worthy causes than the homeless.   

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