Who England need to copy next

[anotherharboroughfox]

I dont understand why everyone brands the teams we are playing as "average" sides and that their players "wouldnt get into top premiership teams" or "go into our international team".

 

The very fact that we are on the receiving end with alarming regularity says that they are better than what we have, or why would we consistently be failing?

 

Its a silly comment.

 

You completely missed my point, I'm not calling their sides average. I'm saying that on paper many would say they are average compared to our players, yet they still play better football than us.

 

It's just pure and utter ignorance.

 

 

Every team at the World Cup is surely above average by definition.

 

I see what anotherharboroughfox is saying though.

 

You do see Gary Medel starting for Chile for example when we all know that no Cardiff player would get in the England squad.

 

Same with Lugano the captain of Uruguay. No outfield West Brom player would get into our squad.

 

That's what I'm getting at! They still play better football than us.

 

Apart from stating the obvious, your point is...?

 

that all our players come from 'top teams' yet teams who have players from 'lesser teams' can play better football than us as a team.

[Dan LCFC]

If youre trying to say in a roundabout way that Medel and Lugano couldnt play for England, then why do Chile and Uruguay beat us? Why do Chile make Spain look devoid of ideas and we exit world cups early over, and over, and over, and over.

 

Agree. Until we start building teams rather than trying to mould the best out of our biggest name individuals then we'll go nowhere.

 

But we won't.

 

We'll win **** all in my lifetime barring a miracle. We never change.

[MC Prussian]

You completely missed my point, I'm not calling their sides average. I'm saying that on paper many would say they are average compared to our players, yet they still play better football than us.

 

 

 

 

That's what I'm getting at! They still play better football than us.

 

 

that all our players come from 'top teams' yet teams who have players from 'lesser teams' can play better football than us as a team.

Lugano didn't play for Uruguay against England, though.

[MC Prussian]

The whole tournament hasn't been the greatest in terms of quality football, our group has just been the worst out of all of them. 

 

England for me need to take the Premier League tempo into International football. Simple as it sounds but we never do it, we never start games like Man City will at home to United or Newcastle at home Stoke, the Premier League is such a quick game especially compared to the European leagues. England change their style for international games and the players aren't a custom to the change, this is where we fall short.

 

Steven Gerrard is an all action midfielder who wants to steam into a tackle, pass the ball first time and take a game by the scruff of the neck, Leighton Baines is a full back who likes to over lap his winger and get involved in the opponents final third, Wayne Rooney is a striker who scores goals on a regular basis, Ross Barkley is a player who plays without fear, Gary Cahill is an all or nothing defender takes the ball and the man, Jordan Henderson is a dog who will fetch you the ball and give you it back, Daniel Sturridge is striker who plays on instinct and Raheem Sterling is the brightest looking player we have had since dare I say Gazza and hopefully Ross Barkley will follow that trend.

 

All of them things I have listed there are what they do week in week out in the Premier League, one of the best leagues in the world yet when they come together for England they have all of that taken away from them. They become conservative, they hold back, they are told to take fewer risks because the results are more important. Is it just Roy who is holding them back from their own natural game or is the fear of failure and the media bashing one of the reasons? 

 

I honestly don't know how England get out of this rut, I think we have been in this situation since Euro 2004, since that tournament exit nothing has changed, literally nothing. We have played the same boring way, I literally can't remember the last time England excited me since Euro 2004 in a game, maybe a 5-0 win v Croatia to seal the World Cup 2010 qualification. 

 

If I was England manager and I seen players with the natural ability Wilshire, Sterling, Barkley, Lallana, The Ox, Rooney and Sturridge have on the ball then I would be rubbing my hands together at the prospect of coaching them NOT worrying about how I'm going to get Danny Welbeck or James Milner in the side to steady the ship and be wary of the opposition.

It's because they are heavily dependent on the support from their (mostly) foreign teammates in the Premier League, and once that's gone on the national level, comes crunch time, they look lost and helpless like headless chickens.

[Grandad.]

It's because they are heavily dependent on the support from their (mostly) foreign teammates.

 

That's a fair point, very fair but this is the kind of thing we do need to take and develop ourselves.. Do you see where I am coming from? 

 

Italy play the same way the majority of the better Serie A sides do.

 

Spain when they won three tournaments in a row played the Barcelona La Liga style. 

 

Germany play very Bundesliga and Bayern Munich.

 

England? We just try and match our opponents style and we're not good enough to do that. 

[anotherharboroughfox]

Lugano didn't play for Uruguay against England, though.

 

State the obvious...

 

Dan has it spot on. That's pretty much what I've been trying to point out (albeit not in the best wording) about other teams, they are teams not a collection of individuals.

[Manwell Pablo]

You completely missed my point, I'm not calling their sides average. I'm saying that on paper many would say they are average compared to our players, yet they still play better football than us.

 

 

 

 

That's what I'm getting at! They still play better football than us.

 

 

that all our players come from 'top teams' yet teams who have players from 'lesser teams' can play better football than us as a team.

 

Half the problem if you ask me. There's a strong argument that Curtis Davis should of at least been on the plane given the season he's had for Hull, the bloke never stood a chance though, because of people like you and POTM.

 

Just because you play in a top side doesn't make you a top player. Tom Cleverly is a Premeir League winner. We have players from top teams, other teams have top players.

 

Simple really.

[anotherharboroughfox]

Half the problem if you ask me. There's a strong argument that Curtis Davis should of at least been on the plane given the season he's had for Hull, the bloke never stood a chance though, because of people like you and POTM.

 

Just because you play in a top side doesn't make you a top player. Tom Cleverly is a Premeir League winner. We have players from top teams, other teams have top players.

 

Simple really.

 

Okay, that's genuinely the point I was trying to make.

[Dan LCFC]

Joel Ward, English right back, was largely considered to be Palace's best player last season. Can he be worse than Johnson?

[MC Prussian]

State the obvious...

 

Dan has it spot on. That's pretty much what I've been trying to point out (albeit not in the best wording) about other teams, they are teams not a collection of individuals.

Galatasaray, Juventus, Atlético, FC São Paulo, Lazio, UANL Tigres, Botafogo, Liverpool, PSG.

 

Yeah, all "lesser" teams.

 

Btw, that's the Uruguay starting line-up against England.

[Manwell Pablo]

Joel Ward, English right back, was largely considered to be Palace's best player last season. Can he be worse than Johnson?

 

I don't like Johnson but he's not had the worst tournament. Was better than Baines who I was thoroughly disappointed in.

[Dan LCFC]

I don't like Johnson but he's not had the worst tournament. Was better than Baines who I was thoroughly disappointed in.

 

Johnson's a funny one. He shows some signs of quality at times but he's so error prone it's unbelievable. He's not a bad attacker.

 

The majority of them were a letdown. I'm struggling to think of a single one of them who I've been genuinely impressed by over the two games. Sterling had one excellent half and three where he was largely anonymous.

[anotherharboroughfox]

Galatasaray, Juventus, Atlético, FC São Paulo, Lazio, UANL Tigres, Botafogo, Liverpool, PSG.

 

Yeah, all "lesser" teams.

 

Btw, that's the Uruguay starting line-up against England.

 

that's fair enough. Uruguay wasn't the best example but you see my point with teams like Chile and Mexico? Both who, I think, would comfortably beat England.

[Grandad.]

Both Johnson and Baines have been woefully bad, Baines more so on the fact like I have said, he has been restricted from his natural game, we have had to see Baines do a lot of defending because of his restrictions and when it comes down to just defending Baines isn't the greatest, just like that clown at right back Glen Johnson.

[Dan LCFC]

Galatasaray, Juventus, Atlético, FC São Paulo, Lazio, UANL Tigres, Botafogo, Liverpool, PSG.

 

Yeah, all "lesser" teams.

 

Btw, that's the Uruguay starting line-up against England.

 

Says it all really. Makes me laugh how people harp on about "can't get into West Brom's team" (who are ****ing shit by the way and have hardly benefited without Lugano) as if it has any bearing on what they do at international level.

 

**** me. Andros Townsend is largely shit at club level but he actually turned up for England when he was called upon.

[MC Prussian]

that's fair enough. Uruguay wasn't the best example but you see my point with teams like Chile and Mexico? Both who, I think, would comfortably beat England.

Not so sure about the "comfortably", but I do agree that both Mexico and Chile (in their current shape) would beat England.

 

They're examples of how individual players submit to the collective and play with pride and joy for their national team.

With England, I usually sense some internal, deeply-rooted hindrance that holds them back once they put that Three Lions shirt on.

[anotherharboroughfox]

They're examples of how individual players submit to the collective and play with pride and joy for their national team.

With England, I usually sense some internal, deeply-rooted hindrance that holds them back once they put that Three Lions shirt on.

 

finally we get to the point I was trying to make 

[Dan LCFC]

Chile played us off the park without their best midfielder. They would annihilate us in this tournament, as would Colombia.

[Grandad.]

As this is the most active thread going, how do I change the 'First Team' bit above my picture? On my old account it was when you had reach 1,000 posts. 

[Dan LCFC]

Edit profile, first page you come on there should be something there that says 'member title', about half way down.

[CosbehFox]

The Germans for me. I think they have a really good chance of winning the World Cup this year. They are strong at the back and attack very quickly. They can also get goals from anywhere.

Recent history says they are also bottlers too.

Ultimately the power is with Premier League and the clubs. Until that changes, we are stuck.

The FA needs to do a serious coaching drive too. Seeing as there are numerous graduates with sports related degrees who struggle to get jobs. Why not target them and fast track them onto UEFA licenses etc?

[MooseBreath]

With England, I usually sense some internal, deeply-rooted hindrance that holds them back once they put that Three Lions shirt on.

Individual fear of failure I think. It has been happening since the early 2000s, when the pressure is on, lots of our players start hiding and it stifles our play. It was happening as early as the first ten minutes against Uruguay, with Cahill and Jags having to play back to the keeper or lump it forward because none of the other eight players ahead of them were willing to find any space. All happy to drop in behind markers, scared of being the one to make a mistake.

I thought we'd solve this a bit with youth but it didn't really work.

[Fox92]

Think the FA needs a reshuffle. Actually get people in who know about football.

[Grandad.]

Oh I can't wait for Danny Mills and the other commissioners reports..

[Vacamion]

We need to accept that being English has failed time and time again.  It's time to think outside the box and be more foreign.

 

We need a gaudy green and yellow kit and a national flag with a picture of an animal on it.

 

The people who direct our TV coverage should sack Lineker, Chiles et al and employ beautiful young females with amazing figures as TV hosts of all football coverage. Whilst covering games, the camerman should unashamedly focus on any female supporting the game and linger on them in a way that we would currently find uncomfortable.

 

Our National Anthem should be changed to something upbeat, 2 or 3 times as fast as GSTQ, and with plenty of trombone, drum and xylophone. There should be a verse of music before the singing starts and when the singing does eventually start it should be bellowed out as if shouting across a valley at one's herd of Alpacas.  When it is played, our team should all stand at an angle to the sideline, with their hands over their hearts, eyes closed and tears on their cheeks as they sing/shout.

 

Whilst I applaud the efforts of Messrs Sterling and Hart at this World Cup, our team's haircuts are too boring and one dimensional and our team should aim for a variety of "do's" which would put a music festival to shame.  I'm thinking Gervinho's bumhead, Abel Xavier at Liverpool and of course our own pioneer, Gerry Francis, as sported from 1978 to the present.

 

Players should fall out with other a bit more - not handbags like Batty & LeSaux or pretendy semi-headbutts like Assou-Ekotto or Pardew but full-on Franny Lee fisticuffs resulting in hospital admissions. 

 

Our supporters should exude an air of sullen menace.  We should unfurl "Welcome to Hell" banners at home games, set off pyro and burn effigies of any player who misses a penalty. 

 

The next World Cup will be as good as won.